Are we heading for a MAJOR economic meltdown?

[azsnowman]

With oil prices going to the MOON, do you expect a MAJOR crisis in the economy? The price of oil, gas has a HUGE trickle down effect and IMHO, we're heading for disaster!!


Dennis

[azskyman]

Dennis, there are a lot of ills going around, not the least of which is distrust in government and leadership.

The borders need real attention, the housing market is unrealistic, the cost of energy is running rampant, healthcare is costing more and not as good, education is once again falling behind, and the social security system is now one year closer to default.

Not to mention that our security, although better than it has been in a while, is vulnerable in a gazillion ways.

Still, STILL, I think that there is a thread of resiliency and optimism that people want to hang on to. That sense that if we can make it through 9/11, we can make it through whatever comes next.

I do think that inflation is about to take off...that pressures in all these areas will begin to build, and that the added ingredient of a greater spread between those who have and those who don't will spur a lot of emotion.

The Republicans and Democrats alike have little leadership right now in those areas...and boldness is needed by one or the other to stay the course.

The worst of times is not yet ahead....but we are surely going to be feeling more pain again.

How we lead people through it will determine how "depressed" this slow time will be.

[canegrl04]

Just this morning on our local news,they had this Texas oilman on who said the price of oil will be $75 a barrel within a year.That translates to $3.50 a gallon. I can tell you now,that would be a severe hardship for me

[Stephanie]

Still, STILL, I think that there is a thread of resiliency and optimism that people want to hang on to. That sense that if we can make it through 9/11, we can make it through whatever comes next.

That's a great point Poppysky - as usual!

EVENTUALLY, the increase in oil prices will trickle down into increased prices for goods that we need everyday. We've already seen it announced with the airlines. As prices go up, so does the chance of inflation, so therefore the interest rates will go up again. We will then see a decrease in spending and a tightening of our belts. The worst will be if this goes on long enough, it eventually affects the demand for goods and services and then jobs are lost. Optimism will last only for so long.

[azsnowman]

The BIGGEST impact is going to be on the folks that make minimum wage, what, $5.50 hr.? IF it would have been RAISED to the proposed min. wage to the $7.75 hr, it wouldn't have had such an impact BUT.............

Dennis

[gtalum]

Execpte if you raise the minimum wage to $7.75, everything goes up in price to compensate.

Minimum wages have no net effect except for to increase inflation.

[MomH]

I have already cut down on car use. When you live on a very low fixed income you have to watch very carefully. No more running to the store for just a gallon of milk or loaf of bread. I now buy extra and freeze. No more running to Wally World every time I need something. I keep a list and spend several hours getting it all done. All errands are saved for one day and done in the most cost efficient manner. I have even started paying a few bills using on-line banking. I havealso had to cancel a much wanted trip to see my best friend several states away.

Anyone remember the oil shortages of the 70's. May be a different scenario but same results.

[Stephanie]

I have already cut down on car use. When you live on a very low fixed income you have to watch very carefully. No more running to the store for just a gallon of milk or loaf of bread. I now buy extra and freeze. No more running to Wally World every time I need something. I keep a list and spend several hours getting it all done. All errands are saved for one day and done in the most cost efficient manner. I have even started paying a few bills using on-line banking. I havealso had to cancel a much wanted trip to see my best friend several states away.

Anyone remember the oil shortages of the 70's. May be a different scenario but same results.

I do. I remember the lines and the minimum amount that my father would have to pay when he filled up for gas.

[gtalum]

Hopefully this will be considered when further development occurs in the US> Our standard layout of spread out homes and completely separate residential and commercial areas doesn't work any more. I'd like to see more development along the lines of "villages" with homes, entertainment, shops, and factories all grouped together within walking distance. It would help our health as a nation too.

[azskyman]

The "neighborhood" concept is exactly what is happening in and around Phoenix. We literally can buy anything we might ever need or want within 6 minutes (3 miles) from home.

However, the downside of that is that all those goods and services need people and suppliers to get them there. And that takes money for fuel and employees.

If community residents would have been willing to free up some bucks on serious problem-solving and meaningful public transportation in some of the more urban areas, the impact would be much less.

Now...all of that comes back into play, but it takes 20 years to put it into play...and costs staggering amounts of money to get it there.

Short-sightedness seems to be clearer to see every day.

[MomH]

I remember the lines and the minimum amount that my father would have to pay when he filled up for gas.

Did you mean maximum? Ever tried to move across county when the maximum amount of gas you could get at any one station was $5.00. Luckily, some stations would let us go through 2 or 3 times, knowing we had long stretches without stations through New Mexico and surrounding states. We kept a filled 5 gallon can in the closed trailer we were pulling for emergencies (dangerous.) When we got to Vegas, I had to throw out all the boxed food and wash every lick of everything because the smell and fumes had permeated it all.

Biggest thing I remember about that time--President Nixon made a speech one night about conserving and the bad times coming. Forty-eight (48) hours later all the lights on the Vegas strip were turned off except those lighting the actual marquees. Thought that quite amazing given the importance they are to tourist trade. Several weeks later, everyone who lived in Vegas seemed to be downtown the night they turned the lights back on for four hours so they could film a James Bond movie.

[canegrl04]

I remeber the last oil crisis .There was a rash of people getting the gas stolen out of their tank with gas cyphoners. People were hording gas,too.There was a story about singer John Denver having an underground gasoline storage tank

[southerngale]

Execpte if you raise the minimum wage to $7.75, everything goes up in price to compensate.

Minimum wages have no net effect except for to increase inflation.

I agree. Also, when you force small businesses to pay their junior employees more money, those 6 people you have employed may have to be cut down to 5, and then you have people out of work. Then everyone will start hollering about unemployment.


Gas may be high but we still pay a lot less than other countries. Like MomH posted, there are things you can do to conserve, like combining errands, etc. into one trip.

And to answer the original question, I voted no.

[coriolis]

I would imagine that, adjusted for inflation, we are probably on par with earlier times.

No doubt that sudden changes cause hardships for individuals. Much of our way of life is predicated on cheap gasoline. People want the house in the country, the sprawling communities, the independence of the motor vehicle, the big trucks and SUV's. It's just plain going to hurt.

On the other hand, the increased prices are going to spur alternative technologies, conservation, domestic oil production, etc.

[Aslkahuna]

Well, I have just cancelled my storm chasing for the rest of the year because I can't afford it anymore since I'm retired. Cutting back on the shopping trips and I'll be getting the bulk beans and rice soon. My son is now planning on riding his bicycle to the UofA when classes start up in two weeks. BTW he votes for beans and rice as well. He was commenting that the European economies which were already in the crapper are about to be flushed which is going to kick back on us as they become less able to buy our products or visit the Country as tourists. And we just got a new "Energy Bill" which gives huge tax breaks to energy companies to "develop alternative fuel sources" which is like giving money to a pimp to keep his girls off the street-in either case, somebody is still getting screwed. In this instances the energy companies are the Pimps and the members of Congress the Whores.

Steve

[Stephanie]

I remember the lines and the minimum amount that my father would have to pay when he filled up for gas.

Did you mean maximum? Ever tried to move across county when the maximum amount of gas you could get at any one station was $5.00. Luckily, some stations would let us go through 2 or 3 times, knowing we had long stretches without stations through New Mexico and surrounding states. We kept a filled 5 gallon can in the closed trailer we were pulling for emergencies (dangerous.) When we got to Vegas, I had to throw out all the boxed food and wash every lick of everything because the smell and fumes had permeated it all.

Biggest thing I remember about that time--President Nixon made a speech one night about conserving and the bad times coming. Forty-eight (48) hours later all the lights on the Vegas strip were turned off except those lighting the actual marquees. Thought that quite amazing given the importance they are to tourist trade. Several weeks later, everyone who lived in Vegas seemed to be downtown the night they turned the lights back on for four hours so they could film a James Bond movie.

That could be what it was, because I remember $5.00. I thought that he had to pay at least $5.00 when he filled up, but I could be mistaken.

Yes Ed, I hope that this will encourage the automobile makers to make even more hybrids and consumers to demand them. I think that the public is ready to make that change.

[azsnowman]

Well, I have just cancelled my storm chasing for the rest of the year because I can't afford it anymore since I'm retired. Cutting back on the shopping trips and I'll be getting the bulk beans and rice soon. My son is now planning on riding his bicycle to the UofA when classes start up in two weeks. BTW he votes for beans and rice as well. He was commenting that the European economies which were already in the crapper are about to be flushed which is going to kick back on us as they become less able to buy our products or visit the Country as tourists. And we just got a new "Energy Bill" which gives huge tax breaks to energy companies to "develop alternative fuel sources" which is like giving money to a pimp to keep his girls off the street-in either case, somebody is still getting screwed. In this instances the energy companies are the Pimps and the members of Congress the Whores.

Steve

"ROFLMAO!" DANG Steve, tell it like it is would ya?8-) WOW!!! Now, my next question, who's REALLY the PIMP here The "B" or "C"?

I'm tellin' ya folks, from what I've been reading, hearing etc........you'd BETTER stock up on beans, it's looking VERY GRIM at the moment and the outlook is even WORSE, when the MAN gives the order to invade Iran, it's ALL over but the cryin'

Dennis

[Aslkahuna]

Bush is the number one Whore-glad I never voted for him.

Steve

[feederband]

We will not invade Iran.. WE will simply let Israel bomb their reactor... Iran would not dare retaliate because they no they would be having real elections after that IMO............

[Kim_in_MN]

Yes Ed, I hope that this will encourage the automobile makers to make even more hybrids and consumers to demand them. I think that the public is ready to make that change.

I would love to get a hybred car; unfortunately, I will be driving my '93 Buick until it falls apart ; maybe by the time I am able to take on a car payment again the people buying the hybreds now will be starting to trade them in and I can get one

I love living in a rural area, but dang, you have to drive everywhere; would walk to work (it's about a mile) but that would mean walking 2 miles by the time I got my daughter to daycare; just not doable for a non-early bird like me.

Kim