New Radar in Development

Nalora · #1 Postby **Nalora** » Tue May 13, 2003 8:38 am

I did not know where to post this, so 'scuse me if this topic should be someplace else, but....

Yesterday on the 6 pm weather on Channel 9, (Gary England), He showed a picture of Saturday's tornado taken from a brand new Radar in development and said it was about 2 years down the road from being ready, but HOLY COW the image from this thing was AMAZING!!!! You could actually SEE THE TORNADO, not just the hook, I am talking EXACT LOCATION. Anyone know if he put this radar picture anyplace on the web? I checked NewsOk.com, and did not see it there...

Nalora

#2 Postby **wx247** » Tue May 13, 2003 8:48 am

Nalora...do you know if this rad. image is commercial or will it be used by the NWS?

Nalora · #3 Postby **Nalora** » Tue May 13, 2003 8:54 am

Most of what Gary England is in on for development is usually commercial, and this thing is amazing. Darnit, why did he not put that shot on his page, I wonder, it was an amazing looking radar image, you could see the actual pinpoint location of the TORNADO and the street it was on, and I am sure to fellow meteorologists it would be darn interesting to look at, since even I could see the inflow bands and the massiveness of the wind shifts in it.

Nalora

#4 Postby **wx247** » Tue May 13, 2003 12:51 pm

I figured it was commercial. Gary is into developing technology!

ColdFront77 · #5 Postby **ColdFront77** » Tue May 13, 2003 4:17 pm

I would love to see this radar. It sounds like this is a 3-D radar image, Nalora.

About five or so years ago one of the Boston affilates (WCVB-TV 5) had a special program for a retiring meteorologists. They had a segment showing a 3-D radar image that indicated Fenway Park among other landmarks in and around the Boston area.

An Orlando station (WFTV-TV 9) has "Tornado Tracker" but I am sure this isn't one you are talking about... I assume many televisions have this source, especially in Tornado Alley.

Rainband · #6 Postby **Rainband** » Tue May 13, 2003 4:40 pm

Sounds like an exciting prospect!!!! :wink:

ColdFront77 · #7 Postby **ColdFront77** » Tue May 13, 2003 5:42 pm

Sure does! I look forward to more precise weather radar.

Nalora · #8 Postby **Nalora** » Tue May 13, 2003 5:49 pm

This was not one of those 3-D things, we have that, but they dont use it much, they did last year as I recall when it was all the rage to move the image so you could see cloud height, lightning, and kind of fly through the storms like some kind of video game...

No, this was like a doppler image only even more precise, the Hook was more defined, the inflow could be seen with great clarity, and the actual tornado SHOWS UP where it is in the storm.

I thought when I saw it...How cool it would be to get a Hurricane in that thing, since the eye would really be defined in it...

Dunno what else the darn thing does but Gary England seemed impressed enough to give us all a sneak peak look at it.

Nalora

ColdFront77 · #9 Postby **ColdFront77** » Tue May 13, 2003 5:55 pm

Okay, Nalora.

I wish we had the 3-D radars here. The "Tornado Tracker" I mentioned is a "cheap 3-D radar," if you will.

Rainband · #10 Postby **Rainband** » Tue May 13, 2003 6:08 pm

Nalora wrote:This was not one of those 3-D things, we have that, but they dont use it much, they did last year as I recall when it was all the rage to move the image so you could see cloud height, lightning, and kind of fly through the storms like some kind of video game...

No, this was like a doppler image only even more precise, the Hook was more defined, the inflow could be seen with great clarity, and the actual tornado SHOWS UP where it is in the storm.

I thought when I saw it...How cool it would be to get a Hurricane in that thing, since the eye would really be defined in it...

Dunno what else the darn thing does but Gary England seemed impressed enough to give us all a sneak peak look at it.

Nalora

We have the 3D radar here too..it's awesome!!! If you find any info out on a link to this radar..please let me know..Thanks!! :wink:

#11 Postby **Aslkahuna** » Tue May 13, 2003 6:14 pm

was a prototype Phased Array Doppler Radar being developed at NSSL in Norman-they would have had a great viewpoint for the tornado on the south side of OKC. Regular Dopplers like the WSR-88D can only measure radial velocities towards and away from the antenna. A Phased Array antenna system allows the Doppler to measure not only radial but transverse velocities as well which then results in the actual flow patterns being displayed. Such a system requires much computer power and engineering to remove ambiguities in the presentation. Although Phased Array Radars will greatly enhance the detection of tornadoes, there will still remain the physical limitations of the radar system. First is terrain blocking which is a serious issue with the Empirita Mountain Radar here in SE AZ and secondly involves the range limitations. Although curved by atmospheric refraction, the radius of curvature for a radar beam in the lower atmosphere is on the order of 3/2 Earth's Radius (this can be affected by inversions, etc.) Consequently, at a 0 degree antenna setting beyond a certain range the beam will intercept the storm at a level above the Boundary Layer which is where the tornado is located so once again we run into the same problem of detecting the Meso but not being sure if there is a tornado. What is needed is to combine the Doppler with a Over the Horizon Radar which can see around Earth's Curvature (like the Missile Tracking Radars). At this point in time, I don't know if the OTH technology is declassified or not or whether or not it's yet feasible to develop an operational OTH Phased Array Doppler Weather Radar-certainly if it is so that's what we would want in the field next.

Steve

Stormsfury · #12 Postby **Stormsfury** » Tue May 13, 2003 6:23 pm

I would love to see that radar image. OKC is lucky to have a meteorologist such as Gary England. His coverage of the May 3rd, 1999 tornado and the recent severe weather is outstanding and saved many, many lives.

Rainband · #13 Postby **Rainband** » Tue May 13, 2003 6:30 pm

It's amazing with all the technology we have we still can't predict the tornado to a better degree..and develop radar that doesn't have it's effectiveness impeaded by mountains :roll:

ColdFront77 · #14 Postby **ColdFront77** » Tue May 13, 2003 6:39 pm

I assume one of the Orlando stations has a 3D radar system. The one I am thinking of indicates the terrain and at least some buildings.

Yes indeed, Jonathan. I've always said I would hate to be a meteorologist, forecaster or weather enthusiast out in the Rocky Mountain states.

#15 Postby **pojo** » Tue May 13, 2003 9:44 pm

Nalora wrote:This was not one of those 3-D things, we have that, but they dont use it much, they did last year as I recall when it was all the rage to move the image so you could see cloud height, lightning, and kind of fly through the storms like some kind of video game...

No, this was like a doppler image only even more precise, the Hook was more defined, the inflow could be seen with great clarity, and the actual tornado SHOWS UP where it is in the storm.

I thought when I saw it...How cool it would be to get a Hurricane in that thing, since the eye would really be defined in it...

Dunno what else the darn thing does but Gary England seemed impressed enough to give us all a sneak peak look at it.

Nalora

Is the new technology called Vortex? WBAY in Green Bay uses a computer radar called Vortex that you can actually see the tornado! Unfortunately the only radar that I could find on the WBAY website was Digital Pinpoint Doppler. http://www.wbay.com

#16 Postby **simplykristi** » Tue May 13, 2003 10:31 pm

WOW I would love to see that radar!! Too bad Gary England is not on TWC!

Kristi

ColdFront77 · #17 Postby **ColdFront77** » Tue May 13, 2003 10:53 pm

Even if Gary England was on The Weather Channel he wouldn't have access to this specific radar... Kristi, I assume you know that.

WGN's (the Chicago Superstation's), Meteorologist Tom Skilling would be a great asset to TWC, too.

#18 Postby **wx247** » Wed May 14, 2003 6:59 am

Yeah... I used to watch WGN News @ 9 on cable just to watch Tom Skilling.

ColdFront77 · #19 Postby **ColdFront77** » Wed May 14, 2003 1:25 pm

He is also on the Noon News. It is funny, watching the WGN News @ Noon at 1:00pm Eastern and the WGN News @ 9 at 10:00pm Eastern.

I have only watched him (Tom Skilling) several times on the Noon broadcast, around 12:30pm CT/1:30pm ET.

JQ Public · #20 Postby **JQ Public** » Wed May 14, 2003 1:36 pm

What a great new invention. Does that mean they just tear down the dopplar radar or is it just a new part that will go on to the existing radar to make it better?

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