BREAKING NEWS: SHUTTLE PROGRAM GROUNDED

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Petmom
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#61 Postby Petmom » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:18 am

gtalum wrote:Going into space is an inherently dangerous undertajking. Every astronaut who has ever flown knows this, and flies anyway. To pretend that we can make it safe is stupid. Stuff has flown off of the space shuttle for every single launch, including large amounts of the heat-shield tiles. This one drew more scrutiny because it was the most videotaped and most photographed launch of all time. It's stupid for NASA to groudn the shuttles, but they're just reacting to an over-sensitive populace.


Foam falling from the external tank have been falling off ever since the first shuttle launch. Until Columbia nothing like that ever happend. What happend with Challenger they fixed. IMO
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#62 Postby HurryKane » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:25 am

gtalum wrote:Going into space is an inherently dangerous undertajking. Every astronaut who has ever flown knows this, and flies anyway. To pretend that we can make it safe is stupid. Stuff has flown off of the space shuttle for every single launch, including large amounts of the heat-shield tiles. This one drew more scrutiny because it was the most videotaped and most photographed launch of all time. It's stupid for NASA to groudn the shuttles, but they're just reacting to an over-sensitive populace.


I don't think it's stupid to ground the shuttles for the time being; if NASA did not ground them for a time or otherwise did not appear to be taking the utmost precautions and lost another shuttle, the US government would be out of the humans-in-space business for good. Some think this is a good thing. Personally I think it'd be a bad thing.

I get the feeling however that the foam fix isn't going to be a quick one. I'm not so sure that putting the insulation on the inside of the tank is feasible, mainly because it could possibly contaminate the liquid oxygen or hydrogen (but that's just off the top of my head without knowing a lot about the external fuel tank and pressurized liquid oxygen or hydrogen). There's already a good bit of mechanical stuff inside the tank itself and the structures might not accomodate an interior insulation, or provide continuous insulation over the joints of the three chambers inside:
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/tec ... s/et_1.jpg

Anyway here's a great, mostly layman's terms description of the external fuel tank (including the image linked above). If I'm reading it right--it's a little vague in that section--it says the foam and additional thermal protection components on that sucker weigh 4,823 lbs! http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/tec ... ef/et.html
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#63 Postby vbhoutex » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:35 pm

I must disagree with you gtalum. We have always know that space exploration is dangerous and that there will always be inherent dangers involved in it. But to say it is stupid to think that we can make it safe(r) is, imo, as you stated, stupid also. We have huge amounts of technology we can use to attempt to make it safer and indeed, imo, make it safer. The losses incurred in human life, are basically due to, imo, lack of oversite or accepting less than the best in order to "stay ahead". To stay ahead of what? A decimated Russian space program that can barely stay afloat? IMO, the shuttles should stay grounded-they are an outmoded technology. We need to spend more money finding a better way to do the research they are doing and hopefully at a cheaper cost. I am all for continuing the space program, but not at the cost of more lives due to outmoded technology. I think we can and should do better. But, I also believe we are in an age when there needs to be a tangible return the public can see or the funding for this exploration will dry up.
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#64 Postby HurryKane » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:41 pm

vbhoutex wrote: IMO, the shuttles should stay grounded-they are an outmoded technology. We need to spend more money finding a better way to do the research they are doing and hopefully at a cheaper cost.



The shuttles aren't just about the research though--the purpose of the majority of the flights now would be to get the remainder of the critical pieces of the ISS up there and assembled.


That, and I'd miss having the SSME tests rattle my office to pieces every few weeks ;)
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#65 Postby gtalum » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:50 pm

Petmom wrote:Foam falling from the external tank have been falling off ever since the first shuttle launch. Until Columbia nothing like that ever happend. What happend with Challenger they fixed. IMO


Actually it's been happening since the firstshuttle launch ever. It's just that with the Columbia incident, that was the first time it caused enough damage to the tiles to allow heat incursion into the vehicle.

They have lost something like 50,000 tiles over the course of the shuttle program for various reasons.

While it's true the shuttles are outmoded and shoul dbe replaced (should have been in the 1980's, really), in the mantime they're all we've got.
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#66 Postby JTD » Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:21 pm

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#67 Postby canegrl04 » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:08 pm

Not good at all :eek: I've got a very bad vibe about Discovery. I'm not so sure it will make it back to earth safely.Something keeps popping up
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#68 Postby Josephine96 » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:34 pm

Canegrl.. Believe me.. Next Monday.. I'm gonna get up early and watch the landing.. If I don't hear a sonic boom around 5:44 am.. I'll know something's wrong..

I'm also nervous.. The foam issue 1st, now this issue about a potentially dangerous spacewalk or whatever.. Kinda gives you the creeps :eek:
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#69 Postby Petmom » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:38 pm

gtalum wrote:
Petmom wrote:Foam falling from the external tank have been falling off ever since the first shuttle launch. Until Columbia nothing like that ever happend. What happend with Challenger they fixed. IMO


Actually it's been happening since the firstshuttle launch ever. It's just that with the Columbia incident, that was the first time it caused enough damage to the tiles to allow heat incursion into the vehicle.

They have lost something like 50,000 tiles over the course of the shuttle program for various reasons.

While it's true the shuttles are outmoded and shoul dbe replaced (should have been in the 1980's, really), in the mantime they're all we've got.


I think they are working on a new design. Someone posted a link here to a potential new space vehicle. The shuttle program just have a few years left. I am not worried that the crew on Discovery won't make it back. In the worst case scenario, they will stay at the ISS, while we go and get them. The Russians have offered to send up one of their vehicles to get the crew back home..............
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#70 Postby canegrl04 » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:46 pm

Josephine....

I hear ya.The Discovery mission has been beset by so many problems you wonder what will happen next. I'm going to be worried untill it actually lands,too :eek:
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#71 Postby Windsong » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:53 am

In the worst case scenario, they will stay at the ISS, while we go and get them. The Russians have offered to send up one of their vehicles to get the crew back home..............[/quote]

Actually, the Russians ARE offering. The only problem is, they can only fit 3 people in the capsule. It takes TWO people to get there in the first place, so they would be able to take ONE. They have THREE craft ready to go. Net rescue = 3 people. Which three?

If they stay in the ISS, they (nine people) will have 55 days of food, water and oxygen. (Minus 3 presumably rescued, would add to the number of days life could be sustained)

The Shuttle Atlantis is staged and ready to be moved to the launch pad. It would STILL use up 36 days to get it launched and docked at the ISS. It's grounded at this point and will not go anywhere.

Also, in the event of a space rescue, the Shuttle Discovery would have to be jettisoned from the ISS within the next day or two in order to for it to be distant enough from the ISS so that other craft could safely navigate and dock.

Another fact: the grounding of the shuttle fleet also puts the burden back on the Soviets to supply the ISS. It takes EIGHT trips to the ISS to carry the same payload of supplies that ONE shuttle can carry.

This is not as simple as just going to get them.

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#72 Postby Petmom » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:39 am

Perhaps not, but if they have to do it, they will. what other options are there?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/08/0 ... index.html

:cry:
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#73 Postby TexasStooge » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:33 am

Success in space: Astronaut completes tile cleanup

SPACE CENTER in HOUSTON, Texas (WFAA ABC 8/AP) — A spacewalking astronaut gently pulled two potentially dangerous strip of protruding fabric from Discovery's belly with his gloved hand Wednesday, successfully completing an unprecedented emergency repair job.

Astronaut Stephen Robinson said both pieces came out easily. He did not have to use a makeshift hacksaw put together in orbit that he brought along just in case.

"That came out very easily, probably even less force," Robinson said of the second piece. "I don't see any more gap filler. ... I'm doing my own inspection here. It is a very nice orbital belly."

NASA officials had determined that the exposed ceramic-fiber fillers could lead to overheating and a possible repeat of Columbia's disastrous re-entry.

Robinson attached a special foot restraint to the space station's 58-foot robotic arm and fellow astronauts aboard the station maneuvered the arm so Robinson could reach the shuttle's belly. It was the first time an astronaut has ventured beneath the ship.

Robinson took only the essential tools for the repair—leaving a tile repair kit just outside the airlock. He also secured his safety tethers between his legs and behind him to keep from accidentally striking the vehicle.

Once under Discovery's belly, Robinson expected to spend about an hour removing or trimming the fillers from two locations near the shuttle's nose. It took mere seconds for him to pull each strip.

His spacewalking partner, Soichi Noguchi, kept a close eye on Robinson and was set to communicate with astronauts aboard the orbiting complex if Robinson's communication system failed.

"Steve, we trained for four years, you're going to spend the next four years signing autographs," Noguchi told his spacewalking partner once the repairs were complete.

NASA thought the first gap filler was the trickier of the two. They believed it remained glued to a shim that was bonded to a thermal tile.

There are 24,300 glass coated tiles on the shuttle, a majority of them on its belly. The tiles protect the shuttle from the extreme temperatures in orbit and, more importantly, insulate the ship during launch and re-entry.

The filler material protects the tiles from bumping against one another during launch, but isn't needed for landing because of the difference in the airflow.

Before heading to the repair site, the pair spent about two hours installing an external tool and parts platform on the international space station, where Discovery has been docked since Thursday.

The platform's installation was the key task of the mission's third spacewalk until NASA officials determined the exposed fillers could threaten Discovery's re-entry.

Columbia broke apart over Texas in 2003 as its crew returned to Earth from a 16-day mission. The disaster was blamed on a chunk of foam that fell from the external tank during liftoff and tore a hole in one of spacecraft's wings. All seven astronauts died.

Discovery, set to land Monday, is the first shuttle to return to orbit since the tragedy. New damage surveys developed in Columbia's aftermath detected the drooping material on Discovery.

"You guys did a great job," Mission Control radioed after the emergency filler removal. "Congratulations."

Click Here for Live NASA Mission Status Briefing.
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They may have to do another repair.

#74 Postby Petmom » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:11 am

This time regarding a damaged thermal blanket. They may have to remove it. The concern is that it may fall off and cause some damage.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/08/0 ... index.html




:eek:
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#75 Postby Skywatch_NC » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:19 am

Wonders if shuttle structures are just getting too old over time?? :eek:

Similar to aging jet liners and metal fatigue...

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#76 Postby Petmom » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:34 pm

They are coming back Monday morning I think.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8838838/


:D
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#77 Postby Brent » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:36 pm

Yep... 4:46am Eastern Time

It'll have to be recorded... that is just TOO early. I don't care what's going on. :lol:
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#78 Postby Skywatch_NC » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:38 pm

Wonder why NASA can't schedule the first landing of a returning shuttle in 2 1/2 years at a reasonable hour? :wink:

Eric
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#79 Postby Brent » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:41 pm

Skywatch_NC wrote:Wonder why NASA can't schedule the first landing of a returning shuttle in 2 1/2 years at a reasonable hour? :wink:

Eric


Seriously.

I think it has to do with having the earth and the shuttle lined up. The route is into the Cape from the SW this time... over Central America, the Yucatan, Western Cuba, and then Florida.
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#80 Postby Petmom » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:42 pm

Brent wrote:Yep... 4:46am Eastern Time

It'll have to be recorded... that is just TOO early. I don't care what's going on. :lol:



It is early, but I think I will make it.............LOL................I don't want to miss this. :D
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