Ack! Time for another deep breath at S2K...

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DoctorHurricane2003

Ack! Time for another deep breath at S2K...

#1 Postby DoctorHurricane2003 » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:26 am

Okay........everyone take a DEEP BREATH.............................................................

Okay now people please please for the love of God calm down! Don't get upset over every little thing someone says! Enjoy the atmosphere of S2K and talk about tropical weather.....don't yell and scream at each other! Here are some nice tips to follow to prevent such things from occurring:

1. If you do not agree with what someone says about something, do not shout 'wishcaster,' do not say anything derogatory, do not call them an idiot. Instead, offer some CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM....explain which part(s) you think are incorrect and why.

2. Avoid negative tones period.

3. If someone says something about your forecast in a negative tone (they call you and idiot, etc.) IGNORE THEM.

4. If someone offers you constructive criticism, do NOT scoff at them and tell them they are an idiot for asking the question/criticising your forecast. Many people are here to LEARN at S2K. Instead, thank them, and either A) Learn from what they have to say.....or B) Disagree with them by offering a more full explanation to them about your analysis.

5. Do some research or be absolutely sure of what you are talking about when classifying things, or saying something is 'definitely happening' or you give a 'breaking news' story. Some people get annoyed by certain people who may do something of the following sort: "An ERC is definitely occurring!!!!!!" (No evidence of concentric eyewalls prior to ERC occurring). Plus, it benefits your mind to do the research yourself. http://www.google.com/ is a great search engine and there are many people here at S2K who would be glad to answer any questions you have about certain processes, etc.

Thank you, and continue with your chatting! Night! :)
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DoctorHurricane2003

#2 Postby DoctorHurricane2003 » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:28 am

Hmm at wonderful forecaster.........I'm sure everyone knows what was there. :)
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#3 Postby Hurricaneman » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:13 am

Everybody has opinions, and they should be respected by others
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mike18xx

#4 Postby mike18xx » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:15 am

Where's the fight?
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#5 Postby joseph01 » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:51 am

mike18xx wrote:Where's the fight?


I want to know too! I love reading those threads. :D
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#6 Postby MBismyPlayground » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:20 am

Doc, I totally agree with you on this. I don't post alot here but read OFTEN. Think I posted more last year. Anyways, point being is that this year(hurricane season) I have noticed that some people are really being mean and catty.
Image

We all need to try to follow your suggestions here, and if all else fails, a kind reminder to just chill out. Image
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HurriCat

#7 Postby HurriCat » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:29 am

"Taka-taka-taka!" (from Battle of Britain, where the commander makes mock attacks in the spitfire vs. newbie pilot) 8-)
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#8 Postby LSU2001 » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:51 am

I too agree with you doc. I have noticed a lot bickering and rudeness on the boards. I have not been posting much lately because I really am a newbie and love to learn from the folks on this board. I am afraid that any post that asks a question is going to be called "-removed-" even if there is no history or intent of -removed-. I wish that some of the people on this board would realize that not everyone is an expert in tropical weather and would like to post observations and questions without fear of recrimination.
TIM
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Rainband

#9 Postby Rainband » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:56 am

lsu2001 wrote:I too agree with you doc. I have noticed a lot bickering and rudeness on the boards. I have not been posting much lately because I really am a newbie and love to learn from the folks on this board. I am afraid that any post that asks a question is going to be called "-removed-" even if there is no history or intent of -removed-. I wish that some of the people on this board would realize that not everyone is an expert in tropical weather and would like to post observations and questions without fear of recrimination.
TIM
Feel free to post and ask questions. The staff will make sure your posting experience here is as comfortable as the pros is. Thats what S2K is about. The diversity of our members helps newbies learn and keeps the pros on their toes. :wink: I assure you any problem will be handled with a quickness by the staff. :D Post on 8-)
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As far as "-removed-"

#10 Postby Ziplock » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:02 am

It seems that a perception that someone is "-removed-" brings out the worst in people. By that, I mean verbal attacks which are in the personal realm, that is, instead of debating the cause and effect (the science) inferred or described by the poster accused of -removed-, the attacks are directed toward the person.

The attacks or let's call them "strong exceptions" to the poster's point of view tilt towards moralizing. As in, "how could you want storm XYZ to come your way? Don't you know had bad, terrible, murderous these storms are? If you are wishing it to go to location ACB, then you are a bad person, a person of weak morality, absent character. One who wished doom upon others, etc. etc. Evil personified. A person who knows not virtue.

IF there was any evidence that "wishing" a storm caused a change in landfall or intensity, then I guess there woud be something to the charges.

The fact is, that none of us has any effect upon the storm whatsoever, therefore, -removed- (if indeed that is what the accused poster is doing) has zero effect on what actually happens. There is nothing you can do but board up, have supplies, evacuate if prudent, and inform those less informed that a dangerous storm is on the way.

I bemused by folks taking the moral "high ground" [I think I should be censured for my bad puns at the very least...now that is an issue of character...] and seemingly endlessly pointing out how wrong (stupid, selfish, ignorant, or just plain nasty) the person is for indulging in the presumed wishcast.

Does "-removed-" cause any harm to anyone? Do you think there is a possibility that some newbies might somehow be influenced by reading posts that seem to indicate that someone wants a storm to come their way, and therefore take the threat less seriously? This is the only example I can think of where the wishcast might actually have a deleterious effect. And then, I still give credit to people for having the sense to read between the lines....afterall, most of the accusations of -removed- are based on assumptions and reading between the lines (though I admit there are some posts which leave no doubt as to the "wishes" of the poster) of the original post to draw the conclusion that the post indeed represents -removed-.

IMNSHO, it is perfectly ok to wish for excitement and a dramatic display of nature's power. Understanding that the wish will not make it happen. As nature, it is completely beyond our control. So why act like the "thought police" regarding these posts?

So what if one has a bit of addiction to the excitement of an approaching storm? It is exciting.

I readily admit that I love the excitement, and at the same time, dread the reality. All of it is out of my hands, except for protecting myself and my property, which is my responsibility.

I pray I never see another Andrew (I lost EVERYTHING except my life and my dog...Andrew destroyed my home, business,a way of life, scattering my friends across 3 counties; almost all my possessions were destroyed; cost me tons of money in moving expenses, even medical costs since a big piece of glass went almost through my foot; and I still have a barrel full of emotions...anxiety and sadness mostly).

Confession time...I honestly admit that I get super excited when I'm in the cone. So if feel the need to flame me, go ahead. Maybe I'm addicted to the adrenaline. I have always felt like this about severe weather. When there is an event, I am just as scared as anyone, maybe more so. I'm very afraid...and I should be, AND I realize I was nuts for wishing for an event. I cannot help myself (without a lot of therapy, anyway)...I am totally in love with the power and the beauty AND the terror.

Isn't "stormchasing" a kind of super -removed-? I mean, if it isn't going to come to you, then go to it? I know, I know, at least when you travel to a storm, YOUR neighborhood isn't trashed for a decade...but someone else' is...

Knowledge of the power, beauty, terror of nature was called "the sublime" throughout the 19th century. Unfortunately, we seem to misuse that word a lot today. It seems that sublime means pleasure in contemporary parlance. Most people seem to thing a good soak in a hot tub is "sublime", or that chocolate mousse is "sublime".

We need that word, that paradigmn back.

Perhaps there is pleasure in the recognition of our own insignificance in the face of nature. I know that I used to enjoy feeling tiny, even weak, when I used to run out to the Gulf Stream in my small Boston whaler...it put things into perspective...and that reality felt so fine....knowing one's place in the bigger scheme...the world sure doesn't revolve around ME...etc. etc. I'm no more significant than a stray packing peanut skittering along the surface of the water.

In the 1800's, especially in America, the sublime had a different meaning. It meant an awareness of the TERRIBLE power of nature, and our insignificance in the face of it, it had to do with recognizing that fear is an appropriate response. But they also knew that there is a connection between the power and the beauty, too. So it was an aesthetic. A belief system.

We seem to have a schism...hurricanes are beautiful, and they are terrible, but we don't seem to want them to be BOTH at the same time...they are beautiful at sea (deadly too, if only we could ask the crew of the Fantome), and terrible at landfall. The concept of the sublime allows us to entertain seemingly contradictory notions at the same time.

I just want to be perfectly honest here. I may wishcast for a variety of reasons:

adrenaline rush
study of storms
the experience-how it looks, sounds, feels, smells
knowing humility, getting cut right down to size
maintaining my respect for the power of the ocean, the winds, and for mother earth.

This does not mean that I don't "get" the terrible suffering that large populations enure during and after these events. I do not "wish" that on anybody, not in my heart of hearts, not ever.

I hope I didn't mess your thread...after this rant, I can barely remember the original topic...it just seemd right at the time to forge ahead.

Most comments welcome :wink:

Zip
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Re: As far as "-removed-"

#11 Postby joseph01 » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:12 am

Ziplock wrote:
Most comments welcome :wink:

Zip


My, my! That was quite a composition. Thanks for it, and I agree with most, if not all, that you said.
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#12 Postby Ziplock » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:20 am

Thanks, I guess I did get on a roll. Too much coffee after so many sleepless nights tracking all that terrible beauty!
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#13 Postby jasons2k » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:30 pm

Zip:

Excellent post. Some of my thoughts exactly.

I think it's an emotional battle many of us face. The utter fascination and awe of mother nature, and the chance to see it firsthand is something many of us crave. I admit, when I'm in the cone my adrenaline goes up too.

Last night, I could see Emily's cirrus shield overhead and the feeders off to the SW. And I just stared at it and pondered how massive it really was - and I am north of Houston. And for a split second I thought to myself "why couldn't the ridge have let it come further north!?!?!"

Some may call that some masochistic fascination, who knows, but I think anyone who is obsessed with the weather has at least a little bit of that in them too.

It's almost like a bad roadside accident. Goodness knows we never want to be IN one, we never want to see anyone get hurt, but when there's an accident on the road, what do we all do?? Slow down and look. It's human nature. We are naturally curious by God's design.

And at the same time, to think about the destruction, death, and misery that comes along with it, you feel guilty inside for even "wishing" such a thing ever occurs. Nobody wants to see another person lose their home, possessions, or loved ones. I've seen that firsthand too and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Who knows, maybe some of the bashing happens b/c the offender sees a bit of himself in the poster, and for some reason feels the need to stamp it out upon arrival. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves by doing so, who knows.

Anyway, thanks for the post and I hope we all at S2K can be helpful, friendly, and courteous.

After all, we all have common ground, and we're all here b/c we're all interested in the 'canes, aren't we not?
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Rainband

#14 Postby Rainband » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:47 pm

Very good post Zip. :wink:
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#15 Postby Pebbles » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:04 pm

Instead of making another long post...just dug up one of mine from last year on this very subject. THanks for reminding us Doc!

There have been numerous post the past few weeks regarding replys and post on the boards. While there are occastional true 'trolls' on the board I really believe they are far and few between. The rare ones tend to make us feel there are more only because they are so rude they stick out in our minds. Mods are usually incredable wonderful at getting rid of them.

More often is the case that misunderstandings occur. This is mainly due to the fact of so much diversity on this board. Something that can and is an incredably wonderful thing as long as that fact is always taken into consideration when reading and responding to posts.

Weather enthusiests: Are a main core of this board. The love to see weather at it's greatest. They admire Mother Nature at her most powerful and showiest levels. These people may post excitably about a storm...just because they love the storm doesn't mean thay want to see anyone suffer or hurt by a storm. They just want to share their excitement about great weather.

Information seekers: Are another main core of this board. Usually just want more information then they can get from TV or 'official' sites. Or they just want it faster then they would get it from these venues. They can range from never even seen a tropical depression hit me to been through several majors hurricanes vets.

There are several subcatagories for each of these, which we won't get too indepth about here. But, there are several things I would like to point out. Many titles have been thrown out there lately ...please please please take into consideration before this is done.

wonderful (wish) forecaster: For those that keep saying the storm is going xxx. This is probably the most abused term on the board. Take these points into consideration. The person is worried the storm will come their way and keeps asking 'will the storm affect xxx' or 'the storm is going xxx' yes, I myself got extremely annoyed with someone over this. This person was just worried and SCARED ..and wanted more info. Many were quite tired of hearing it...but know what... I am sorry now I got annoyed and here is some smoked crow on a stick *takes a big bite* that person had a legit concern. Their area got wacked quite nicely! To bad I blew this person off. They really just wanted help.

Others against all odds keep insisting the storm will head their way...will use an example here. Carolina's usually figure here as we all know....you know what..they have good reason...just go here http://html.nbc6.net/sh/idi/weather/hur ... acker.html and run the historical storms that hit land the last 10 to 15 years....look where almost all of them go... even if you disagree give them a break please! Most are just worried. And history has shown the storms do turn mostly at them. So even if it annoys you to tears can you HONESTLY blame them for maybe thinking it may turn last minute?

Novice forcasters: They may be totally wrong or completely right...and if that's the case have a discussion....A DISCUSSION...not accuse why you disagree. Know most are more then willing to discuss weather...why else would they share their forecast? But nobody likes to hear other's imply mightest well told straight out they are completely stupid. Usually they are here to learn...or share what they know...or both. Make it a LEARNING oppertunity not a fight!

Newbies: I just love newbies *CUDDLES THE NEWBS* be kind to em till they learn their way around and how the board works! Some rare ones may need a MOD pointed at them...but most are just WONDERFUL. We all were one once....remember?

I could go on here...but won't as this post rambles way longer then intended. But here are just a few things that people see differently as examples. Everyone WILL see things differently then you (wouldn't the world be BORING if everyone thought the same?)... most aren't doing this to spite anyone personally. And most have good intentions...as long as you try to look for them.

We all need to stop thinking the glass is half empty and see it as half full.

*HUGGERS*
Christine aka Pebbles the Hurricane Ivan Chicken Dancer

P.S. please forgive any typo's, misspells, and poor grammer. This was very long and written 'on the fly'. And for all those that put up with this extremely long rambles *STANDS UP AND CHEERS WILDLY*[/quote]
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#16 Postby Rainband » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:07 pm

another good post Pebs 8-) :D
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#17 Postby Swimdude » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:49 pm

No reason to give my two cents; everyone's covered it all. I'm glad this post was made. If you check around the other boards, there isn't nearly as much hostility as there is on talkin' tropics. No wonder I need to escape it so often. Hopefully the down-time, if even very short lived, will help some of us recover. 8-)
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#18 Postby stormie_skies » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:12 pm

:clap:

What wonderful posts!!!!

I think most of what ends up being called "-removed-" by an angry few is really a combination of the factors you guys discussed.

First of all, YES, the vast majority of us need to admit that our hearts beat a little faster when we think a storm is headed our way. It is plain as day to me....you can see it in the frequency of peoples posts, in their tone, in the way they watch a storms every movement (until it passes them, after which point they watch casually, if at all). I agree with Zip on this - it should be possible to be excited to see Mother Nature really bring it :lol: , and be worried about suffering and loss (human and otherwise), all at the same time. I've never been through a "big one," and honestly the very idea scares the %#$@ outta me, but I will admit that the night we had that close call with Claudette, when the winds really started kickin' in and they were showing the waves washing over Seawall Blvd. on TV, I was completely amazed - and a bit excited. We wouldn't all watch these things so closely if we werent amazed by them....so lets all just drop the "holier than thou" bit and admit - we like a little wind and rain now and then! :wink:

It is also good to remember that many of us are still learning a lot about the detailed aspects of why storms move the way they move. The atmosphere is a complex thing, in which any little change can produce a big ol' track shift - and when a track shift can mean the difference between a sunny day and a Cat 4 on your doorstep, you wanna know why and how and if and could and....you know. :D I really can only speak for myself here, but I suspect that is why I, along with many others along the mid and upper TX coast, watched Em so carefully. Claudette didn't turn when she was supposed to ... why would Em? If a ridge was poorly forecasted then, what has changed now? You gotta ask those questions, especially when dealing with a potentially strong storm, because it takes time to board windows and get outta dodge. Better to be watching and prepared than to be caught off guard later...

I guess we all just need to learn to communicate better..... when you are worried that a storm might head in your direction, explain your case and ask - why or why not? An explanation will get more detailed and more serious consideration from the mets and forecasters here, I am sure. If someone is talking about a scenario that you don't think is likely or possible, don't shut them down with a one word answer - explain to them why you think what you think (or why the NHC is forecasting what it is) - that is the only way people can learn and stop worrying so much. And lay off the "wish caster" thing ....its nothing but a nasty term used to shut people and conversations down ....it doesn't benefit anyone, and it hurts and scares away many....

Just my 2 cents, for whatever its worth.... :D
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#19 Postby Huckster » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:13 pm

Zip,
Thanks for that post. I know there are bound to be others who've wanted to say much of the same but either did not have the courage or articulateness to do so. Having gone through Andrew, that gives you a good perspective on things and the ability to see all sides of the "-removed-" issue.
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#20 Postby jasons2k » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:34 pm

stormie_skies wrote:but I will admit that the night we had that close call with Claudette, when the winds really started kickin' in and they were showing the waves washing over Seawall Blvd. on TV, I was completely amazed - and a bit excited.


What's really sad is that in 2002 when TS Fay was in the GOM (and talk about a disorganized system!) I took a very long lunch and drove to Galveston and ate right on the seawall, then headed back to work in Greenway Plaza (for you non-Texans that's about a 55 mile drive).
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