NWS Data Obligation Already Exists

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donsutherland1
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NWS Data Obligation Already Exists

#1 Postby donsutherland1 » Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:27 pm

Among other things, CWSA's "FreetheWeather.com" website declares, "Right now, the NWS doesn't have to provide any of its information to the public. Your taxes have paid for the weather data collected by the NWS. Shouldn't you be able to access this information?"

Image

The answer is affirmative.

Unfortunately, CWSA is actually championing legislation that would restrict the public's access to NWS data. Worse, it is trying to do so while claiming that its favored legislation would create a guarantee that the NWS share data with the public when, in fact, such an obligation already exists.

Let's take a closer look at S.786 and existing rules governing data:

OMB Circular A-130 currently governs the data obligations of federal entities, including the NOAA/NWS.

Information for the public should be "more easily accessible and useful"

How will agencies carry out electronic information dissemination?

Agencies will use electronic media and formats, including public networks, as appropriate and within budgetary constraints, in order to make government information more easily accessible and useful to the public...

In determining whether and how to disseminate information to the public, agencies will:

Disseminate information in a manner that achieves the best balance between the goals of maximizing the usefulness of the information and minimizing the cost to the government and the public;

Disseminate information dissemination products on equitable and timely terms;

Take advantage of all dissemination channels, Federal and nonfederal, including State and local governments, libraries and private sector entities, in discharging agency information dissemination responsibilities...


Current policy bars granting of exclusive distribution arrangements

How must agencies avoid improperly restrictive practices?

Agencies will:

Avoid establishing, or permitting others to establish on their behalf, exclusive, restricted, or other distribution arrangements that interfere with the availability of information dissemination products on a timely and equitable basis...


Existing NOAA Policy Reaffirms The Terms of This Regulation:

NOAA will adhere to the policies contained in the Paperwork Reduction Act, the Government Paperwork Elimination Act, OMB Circular No. A-130, "Management of Federal Information Resources," and other relevant laws. These policies are based on the premise that government information is a valuable national resource, and the benefits to society are maximized when government information is available in a timely and equitable manner to all.

S.786 runs counter to OMB Circular A-130

S.786 declares: Data, information, guidance, forecasts, and warnings shall be issued under paragraph (1) through a set of data portals designed for volume access by commercial providers of products or services...

This provision undermines the following terms of OMB Circular A-130, and therefore weakens, rather than strengthens, public access to information:

• As S.786 would only guarantee information would be available in raw format, it undermines the goal of making information "easily accessible" to the public.

• At the same time, as the raw format is not readily useful to the public, it also undermines the provision that the information be "useful to the public."

• As processed information e.g., enhanced radar displays, etc., would only be available through commercial providers, S.786 would undermine the provision that federal agencies/entities "Avoid establishing, or permitting others to establish on their behalf, exclusive, restricted, or other distribution arrangements that interfere with the availability of information dissemination products on a timely and equitable basis."

If there should be any doubt about the intent of S.786's advocates, the following illustrates their aims:

Barry Myers: At a March 2004 AMS forum, Barry Myers' (Accuweather Executive VP and member of the Board of Directors of CWSA) made the following complaint about the NWS guidelines, "The recognition that the private weather industry is ideally suited to put the NWS information database into a form and detail that can be utilized by specific users is deleted."

The statement that private industry is "ideally suited to put the NWS information database into a form and detail that can be utilized by specific users" suggests that Myers possibly had in mind the distribution of raw data only by the NWS.

Mike Smith: Mike Smith, CEO of WeatherData, former chairman of CWSA and one of the bill's leading advocates has provided what is likely a "smoking gun" in the debate concerning access to information. The May 11, 2005 edition of The Wichita Eagle reported, "Smith argues that the weather service could save money by not duplicating services provided by the private sector, such as customized digital cell phone forecasts, plotted maps and digests of severe storm reports and enhanced radar displays."

Key Points:

• CWSA claims, "Right now, the NWS doesn't have to provide any of its information to the public." OMB Circular A-130 and the NOAA's affirmation of its provisions demonstrates otherwise.

• Under current law, the public is ensured timely access to useful information. S.786's provision that "Data, information, guidance, forecasts, and warnings shall be issued under paragraph (1) through a set of data portals designed for volume access by commercial providers of products or services..." would eliminate the guarantee of public access to timely and useful information.

• Statements by two of S.786's key proponents suggest that it is their intent to restrict data.

In the end, given that one's taxes have paid for NWS information, one should continue to have access to such information. Therefore, if this guarantee is to be preserved, S.786 should be defeated.
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#2 Postby drezee » Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:38 pm

Let me get this right, the private sector wants the NWS websites down so that the public can only get data from them. They want any data that is sent to be in raw formats that 99% of the people of Earth wouldn’t even know what it is. The private companies have taken the algorithms that have been created by the Government to decipher the data to sell it back to the public at pay sites. This is un-American!!!
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#3 Postby dhweather » Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:31 pm

This is propoganda at its finest.
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Free the Weather

#4 Postby sunflowerkist » Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:34 pm

I am afraid the argument is invalid when discussing what is available to the public because we pay taxes on it. We have the military which is supported by taxation and we do not have access to military planning, nor do we have access to spy acquired information that our taxes pay for. This is just two ridiculously true examples. Now I believe the information should be freely accessible, so what the argument should be over is the free interpretation of the weather data. When I see a picture of a satellite I may know what it means or I may have to pay some one to tell me what it means. Or I may have to go to school to learn what it means. It is the same with treating a medical problem. If I pay taxes for medicare or medicaid, I still have to pay for a doctor to use their skills to get me well even if I have a right to what appears to be free medical service. I do not know the answers but I applaud the philosophy of access to weather data.
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Re: Free the Weather

#5 Postby Guest » Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:36 pm

sunflowerkist wrote:I am afraid the argument is invalid when discussing what is available to the public because we pay taxes on it. We have the military which is supported by taxation and we do not have access to military planning, nor do we have access to spy acquired information that our taxes pay for. This is just two ridiculously true examples. Now I believe the information should be freely accessible, so what the argument should be over is the free interpretation of the weather data. When I see a picture of a satellite I may know what it means or I may have to pay some one to tell me what it means. Or I may have to go to school to learn what it means. It is the same with treating a medical problem. If I pay taxes for medicare or medicaid, I still have to pay for a doctor to use their skills to get me well even if I have a right to what appears to be free medical service. I do not know the answers but I applaud the philosophy of access to weather data.


Very good analogy. What seems to be the concern is that those of us that like to explore data beyond the daily robot driven weathermans forecast, are at risk of having to pay for that information on a subscribers bases when we already pay taxes for an agency that is suppose to provide public access. I for one believe the average person out there is only interested in a general forecast, general radar and satelite shots to see what maybe going on in the world of weather. Therefore, they wouldnt care who provides the weather. I do believe that we (the public) should question how much money is being feed to the agencies such as NOAA, NWS, NHC on an annual basis, to determine if we (the public) are wasting monies on research that is not beneficial to the public in terms of protection of life and property. We should all be concerned whenever congress feels they have to put their nasty hands on anything. 8-)
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I'm Confused

#6 Postby Downdraft » Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:37 pm

I'm either very confused or I'm hearing a case of I want it all. I totally agree that NWS information should be given free access to the public. I hated subscribing to NEXRAD data (something I paid for as a taxpayer) because the NWS couldn't provide it in a timely manner. They couldn't compete with subscription services using THEIR technology.
Now here's my confusion. The NHC bashing that goes on in here is relentless. You can't have the cake and eat it too. Most of you listen to the private met's in here ESPECIALLY when they agree with your thought processes. This despite the fact that the NHC's record is pretty darn good and I trust them over just about everyone in here. Would you rather let Bastardi tell you where the hurricane is going to go or would you rather listen to the NHC. When you agree with the NHC it's keep up the work government but when you disagree it's something else. I know I'll probably get flamed for this message but you either support the NWS and by reference the NHC or you don't. Which is it?
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Re: I'm Confused

#7 Postby x-y-no » Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:46 pm

Downdraft wrote:I'm either very confused or I'm hearing a case of I want it all. I totally agree that NWS information should be given free access to the public. I hated subscribing to NEXRAD data (something I paid for as a taxpayer) because the NWS couldn't provide it in a timely manner. They couldn't compete with subscription services using THEIR technology.
Now here's my confusion. The NHC bashing that goes on in here is relentless. You can't have the cake and eat it too. Most of you listen to the private met's in here ESPECIALLY when they agree with your thought processes. This despite the fact that the NHC's record is pretty darn good and I trust them over just about everyone in here. Would you rather let Bastardi tell you where the hurricane is going to go or would you rather listen to the NHC. When you agree with the NHC it's keep up the work government but when you disagree it's something else. I know I'll probably get flamed for this message but you either support the NWS and by reference the NHC or you don't. Which is it?


This doesn't actually have anything to do with NHC - the law exempts emergency information.

This is about access to the broader spectrum of weather data (sattellite imagery, model output, forecast products etc.) in a form usable to individuals. The advocates of this legislation try to claim that it will not affect that access, but it is clear from a plain reading of the bill that it would - limiting the NWS to presenting any data which pay services are "willing" to sell to the public to being delivered in bulk form (not practical for individuals or small businesses to use).

As for people here "bashing" NHC - I think you'll find that most members here have a high opinion of NHC, so while you'll certainly see some bashing, you'll also see a great number of people disagreeing with that bashing.

Jan
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#8 Postby SkeetoBite » Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:52 pm

Uh... isn't this "unfettered" access?

ftp://weather.noaa.gov/SL.us008001
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Re: I'm Confused

#9 Postby mitchell » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:21 am

Downdraft wrote: The NHC bashing that goes on in here is relentless.


The Accuweather bashing is whats REALLY annoying. The wasted energy and space taken up with clever names for Accuweather ("AccuCrap??" :roll: etc.) ought to be used for actual weather discussion. If you don't like them, why not consider ignoring them :idea:
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