Question about Hurricane Gloria 1985

[EDR1222]

Hey Everyone,

Just had a question about this storm. I can vaguely remember watching the news when Gloria was making her way toward the Atlantic coast back in September of 1985. Was Gloria the strongest hurricane on record in the Atlantic above the 30th parrallel at some point on her course? Or did she achieve some statistic like that, that anyone knows about. I know she was weaker at landfall, but I seem to remember a local met commenting about an unusal statistic regarding that storm. I can't find any info on it and I could be wrong. Just wondering if anyone had any information. I do remember her generating incredibly high surf along Florida's east coast.

Thanks,
Ed

[Derek Ortt]

I do not believe so since Gloria was not even a major hurricane north of 27N

ftp://ftp.nhc.noaa.gov/pub/storm_archiv ... elim05.gif

In fact, it was overall weaker than Isabel of 2003, and one other aspect, that 75KT may have been the most generous landfall intensity ever. Based upon the wind reports, Gloria may not have even been a hurricane at Long Island landfall due to the fact that it was spread out without convection. Therefor,e even though it did move at roughly the same speed as the 1938 hurricane, this was definately no cat 3, not even a 2, and probably not even a cat 1 at landfall

[HurricaneBill]

Derek, there were reports of sustained Category 1 winds on Long Island and Massachusetts.

Plus, it was reported that damage on some areas of Long Island indicated that a few areas may have received wind gusts up to 100 mph.

[EDR1222]

Thanks Derek,

I guess I was getting it confused. I know she was pretty formidable, but that must have been when she was much further out and further south.

Thanks for the information.

[Derek Ortt]

the sustained hurricane winds were all well above the 10m reporting level. They were on the tops of the high buildings, which means we must account for boundary layer reduction

[SouthernWx]

There's no way Gloria is the strongest hurricane of record north of 30° north in the Atlantic.

At landfall along the Carolina coast in 1954, hurricane Hazel was at 938 mb....with estimated sustained winds of at least 130 mph. Landfall occurred at lat. 33.8 N (near Little River Inlet, SC)....and a 16-17' storm surge obliterated the beachfront communities from Calabash to southeast of Wilmington; every fishing pier was destroyed all the way to Cedar Island....over 150 miles to the northeast.

In September 1958, hurricane Helene passed near but just offshore the North Carolina coast....within 15-20 miles of Cape Fear, where wind gusts were estimated at 150-160 mph.
Recon measured a central pressure of 936 mb, and sustained winds were likely 140-145 mph at the time (North Carolina was EXTREMELY fortunate this monster didn't make landfall....although clearly Cape Fear was inside the northwestern eyewall (I've seen a couple archived B&W radar shots from Cape Hatteras, and Helene was an extremely intense and well formed hurricane just offshore...the eye as impressive as any hurricane I've seen in that area....just as impressive as Hugo's eye at landfall).

There's no doubt that Hazel, Helene, and Hugo were more intense at/ above latitude 30 north than Gloria. I also have great confidence that the 1938 "Long Island Express" was more intense than Gloria; even as it passed east of Cape Hatteras (lat 35.2 N), the estimated central pressure was near 940 mb, indicating an extremely intense hurricane.

Also, in September 1944...a powerful hurricane struck the U.S. East Coast killing over 390. As the eye passed over Hatteras, central pressure fell to 947 mb (27.96")....as the large intense hurricane passed just east of Tidewater Virginia, winds were sustained at 134 mph with a peak gust of 150 mph at Cape Henry, Virginia.....far stronger than hurricane Gloria in the same area.

PW

[HurricaneBill]

I agree that Gloria was not a major at Long Island. But I still think Gloria was a Category 1 at landfall. The pressure was that of a Category 3 hurricane. Plus, Gloria was moving at a very fast speed.

The highest sustained winds are rarely recorded in hurricanes at landfall because so few weather stations are in the area.

A New England hurricane is not the same as a Florida/Gulf coast/Caribbean hurricane. It is farther away from the tropics and moving at practically double the speed.

Plus, it is often said that barometric pressure is a more reliable indicator of a hurricane's intensity than the sustained winds.

I lived in Peabody, MA when Gloria hit. Yes, I was only 4 years old, but I remember it well. Peabody was far from the eye but still in the upper right quadrant.

All over Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts, there were downed trees, including well inland.

I'm not a meteorologist, but I'm pretty sure Gloria was at least a minimal Category 1 at landfall on Long Island.

[Aslkahuna]

However, when Gloria was at its peak intensity the pressure was down to 919 mb and the storm WAS the strongest of the 20th Century in that particular part of the Basin where it was located at the time. This is what led to all of the hype about Gloria as it approached landfall.

Steve

[Persepone]

I remember Gloria very well. I was in Fairfield, CT at the time a little over a mile from the water. There was only one "old" tree standing on our street after the hurricane passed through. One tree landed in a baby's bedroom. We were without power for several days.

There were roofs off houses and significant damage. Most houses did not lose entire roofs, but "chunks" of roof. There was also significant flooding closer to the beaches. However, it was not the devastation of last summer's hurricanes in Florida.

Yes, hurricanes up here move much faster, but they do significant damage when they do go through. What I remember was that some areas were much more severely damaged than others within a relatively small area. I don't know whether that had to do with different types of construction in different neighborhoods or exactly what. But I wonder if the wind doesn't act differently when the hurricane is moving faster so that it cuts narrower swaths.

[HurricaneBill]

http://www.geocities.com/hurricanene/hurricanegloria.htm

[Derek Ortt]

in real time, Gloria was carried as a 140 m.p.h. hurricane across Hatteras, 130 just east of VA, and 115 at LI. Clearly, some of the worst advisory writing ever

[vacanechaser]

in real time, Gloria was carried as a 140 m.p.h. hurricane across Hatteras, 130 just east of VA, and 115 at LI. Clearly, some of the worst advisory writing ever

Don't know where you go those numbers from... Just north of Hatteras 104mph with 942mb. and east of Delaware 98mph at 951mb.

Check hurricanetrack.com archives for those numbers..

[SouthernWx]

in real time, Gloria was carried as a 140 m.p.h. hurricane across Hatteras, 130 just east of VA, and 115 at LI. Clearly, some of the worst advisory writing ever

Don't know where you go those numbers from... Just north of Hatteras 104mph with 942mb. and east of Delaware 98mph at 951mb.

Check hurricanetrack.com archives for those numbers..

Derek got his numbers from the official NHC advisories. As Gloria was passing east of Delaware and New Jersey, the official NHC advisory stated th estimated sustained winds were 120 mph and a central pressure of 955 mb....the same was reported on TWC by John Hope.

I'm not saying the NHC advisories were correct...clearly they were not, but that is what coastal residents in the path of Gloria were being told to expect -- a landfalling cat-4 hurricane at Cape Hatteras and a major cat-3 direct hit on Long Island and into Connecticut and Rhode Island.

PW

[vacanechaser]

in real time, Gloria was carried as a 140 m.p.h. hurricane across Hatteras, 130 just east of VA, and 115 at LI. Clearly, some of the worst advisory writing ever

Don't know where you go those numbers from... Just north of Hatteras 104mph with 942mb. and east of Delaware 98mph at 951mb.

Check hurricanetrack.com archives for those numbers..

Derek got his numbers from the official NHC advisories. As Gloria was passing east of Delaware and New Jersey, the official NHC advisory stated th estimated sustained winds were 120 mph and a central pressure of 955 mb....the same was reported on TWC by John Hope.

I'm not saying the NHC advisories were correct...clearly they were not, but that is what coastal residents in the path of Gloria were being told to expect -- a landfalling cat-4 hurricane at Cape Hatteras and a major cat-3 direct hit on Long Island and into Connecticut and Rhode Island.

PW

Have not seen the "official advisories" but Mark has the data on the archives at hurricanetrack coming straight from those "official advisories". I have not seen them so I can't say.

It does make sense if you think about it though... The storm was accelerating off to the north at the time and the eastern eyewall stayed out to sea. We saw that during Alex. The west side is weaker, and if the storm was weakening, then it could be a great deal less. Floyd was forecast to move over southeast Va with winds of 80. The official advisory was 80mph but Floyd was accelerating, and being streatched by the front to his west. But they did find 80mph within the system.

[SouthernWx]

Have not seen the "official advisories" but Mark has the data on the archives at hurricanetrack coming straight from those "official advisories". I have not seen them so I can't say.

Well, I have seen them....and heard them live as they were disseminated via NOAA weather radio and The Weather Channel in September 1985. I'm a severe storm analyst and historian with three decades experience....not some clueless kid or weenie. When I post hurricane information online, you can bank on it.

Those numbers on Mark's site are the revised wind speed estimates from the post-storm surveys; prepared and released to the public MONTHS after the hurricane occurred.

In 1992, the official NHC advisories....issued at the time hurricane Andrew made landfall in south Florida gave max sustained winds of 140 mph and a central pressure of 932 mb. We now know post-hurricane surveys found Andrew was in reality, much stronger than believed, much more intense than the 5 a.m. advisory indicated (closer to 170 mph and a true central pressure of 922 mb).

Last season, at time of landfall hurricane Ivan's official advisory listed a landfall intensity of 132 mph (115 kt). We now know it wasn't that strong...wind speed revised downward to 121 mph (105 kt) in the preliminary NHC report issued in December. The SAME THING occurred with hurricane Gloria in 1985....turned out the hurricane was far less intense per post storm surveys than NHC thought as landfall occurred...far less intense than was reflected in their NHC hurricane advisories and bulletins as landfall occurred.

PW

[HurricaneBill]

Another thing to understand is that Gloria was probably alreading transitioning to extratropical as she was making landfall on Long Island.

Extratropical storms tend to have lower winds speeds than hurricanes in regards to barometric pressure.

The ET transition pushes the strongest winds further east. This means eastern Long Island would have experienced the strongest winds.

The 1938 Hurricane was already ET when it made landfall.

Bob, however, maintained a TC circulation at landfall and did not start ET transition until after.

Here, I found a report on extratropical transition in regards to hurricanes in the northeastern U.S.

PDF Version:

http://www.rms.com/Publications/26MeteorMuir-Wood_Abstract.pdf

[vacanechaser]

Have not seen the "official advisories" but Mark has the data on the archives at hurricanetrack coming straight from those "official advisories". I have not seen them so I can't say.

Well, I have seen them....and heard them live as they were disseminated via NOAA weather radio and The Weather Channel in September 1985. I'm a severe storm analyst and historian with three decades experience....not some clueless kid or weenie. When I post hurricane information online, you can bank on it.

PW

Did not mean to offend you. Just saying that I had not seen the advisories. I live here in Norfolk, Va and remember Gloria as that was the storm that hooked me into chasing these things. Just so you know so you don't think I am some "clueless kid" or just another "weather weenie". I must have as great a memory as I thought on Gloria.

Good point hurricanebill about the ET transition... Same thing here with Floyd like I was saying. The strongest winds were pused to the east and out to sea even thought the center passed right over Norfolk. This could have been the same thing happening to Gloria..

Jesse V. Bass III
http://www.vastormphoto.com

[SouthernWx]

Did not mean to offend you. Just saying that I had not seen the advisories. I live here in Norfolk, Va and remember Gloria as that was the storm that hooked me into chasing these things. Just so you know so you don't think I am some "clueless kid" or just another "weather weenie".

Jesse V. Bass III
http://www.vastormphoto.com

No offense taken Jesse...thanks for the clarification. I didn't mean that you were a clueless kid or a wx weenie; instead felt that's the way you saw me.

FYI...nice site.

PW
http://www.weathermatrix.net/members/pu ... ms&f=Perry

[rainstorm]

more research needs to be done on the 1944 cane. it passed at least 90 miles east of here and we were on the weak west side with a sustained 134 mph wind, and 150 gust. my guess is it was the strongest atlantic cane ever

[Aslkahuna]

Much of the information on the Great Atlantic Hurricane of 1944 was classified under wartime secrecy laws and much may no longer be available. This storm is considered to be the largest oberserved in modern times in the Atlantic Basin and some of the track archives fail to show it's actual lowest pressure which was in the low 900's. Of the storms since the 1944 hurricane only Carla 1961 approached it in size and both storms were of comparable intensity at their peaks.

Steve