I have a friend of a friend that works for Gulf Power here in Pensacola. They say they had a sustained wind of around 160mph and some gusts in excess of 200mph. Take it for what it's worth.
From the all the damage I see around here and the unreal surge, that doesn't surprise me really. I found it hard to believe considering the NHC reported that it was 130mph. Then again, they have been wrong on intensity before.
Gulf Power's Wind Gauge in Ivan.........
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HurricaneBill
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Stratosphere747
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yoda wrote:I can't see Ivan as a Cat 5. A very weak Cat 4? Maybe.... but most likely a strong Cat 3.
I went through Opal which was reported as a cat.3 and Ivan was Much worse. So much so, that Ivan scared me whereas Opal didn't!
Ivan's winds blew our wall in and it is believed that the studs or whatever are broke. In fact, it knocked a picture off the wall and broke the glass.
It also broke the front door but it withstood the terrible winds.
I believe that Ivan was a cat. 4!!
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Derek Ortt
two important questions
1. What elevation was the anamometer located at?
2. What typ of anemometer was it
My guess as to the answers is elevation of about 300-500 feet (about where the highest winds are, can reduce those by at least 20 percent; thus, the 160 is closer to 128 at the surface
as to question 2, it very well may have been a hot-wire anemometer, making the wind readings completely useless.
As I've said many times, based upon the objective wind data, I firmly believe that Ivan was either a very strong cat 2 or a marginal 3 at landfall. However, as has been forgotten by many, a strong 2 or a marginal 3 does produce gusts well into the cat 4 range, which caused the pockets of wind damage
1. What elevation was the anamometer located at?
2. What typ of anemometer was it
My guess as to the answers is elevation of about 300-500 feet (about where the highest winds are, can reduce those by at least 20 percent; thus, the 160 is closer to 128 at the surface
as to question 2, it very well may have been a hot-wire anemometer, making the wind readings completely useless.
As I've said many times, based upon the objective wind data, I firmly believe that Ivan was either a very strong cat 2 or a marginal 3 at landfall. However, as has been forgotten by many, a strong 2 or a marginal 3 does produce gusts well into the cat 4 range, which caused the pockets of wind damage
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Aslkahuna
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Actually, based upon the JTWC study of gust factors in Typhoons, overland a sustained wind of 110 mph (top end Cat 2) can produce wind gusts up to 160+ mph which is in the Cat 5 range and it's the high energy gusts that can cause major damage to a structure softened up by the lower sustained winds.
Steve
Steve
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vbhoutex
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Derek Ortt wrote:two important questions
1. What elevation was the anamometer located at?
2. What typ of anemometer was it
My guess as to the answers is elevation of about 300-500 feet (about where the highest winds are, can reduce those by at least 20 percent; thus, the 160 is closer to 128 at the surface
as to question 2, it very well may have been a hot-wire anemometer, making the wind readings completely useless.
As I've said many times, based upon the objective wind data, I firmly believe that Ivan was either a very strong cat 2 or a marginal 3 at landfall. However, as has been forgotten by many, a strong 2 or a marginal 3 does produce gusts well into the cat 4 range, which caused the pockets of wind damage
Good points Derek.
Why is a "hot-wire" anemometer useless? For that matter, what does hot-wire mean in relation to an anemometer?
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Derek Ortt
the hot wire anemometer is useless because the rainfall interferes with the wind readings. I believe this type uses the rate in which evaporation occurs (someone please corect me if I am wrong) and in heavy rainfall, this is affected for obvious reasons
I have said in many posts, while Opal was a cat 3 at landfall, Pensacola received TS or marginal cat 1 winds. The cat 3 winds were 50 miles to the east, which mkaes sense since it was unraveling as it was moving inland, just as Ivan was, remember, Ivan made landfall in Alabama, 50 miles west of Pensacola. This places Pensacola near the region of maximum winds. Dont use Opal to compare Ivan to for Pensacola since any "garden variety" cat 1 that makes a direct hit on the city will produce stronger winds than did Opal
I have said in many posts, while Opal was a cat 3 at landfall, Pensacola received TS or marginal cat 1 winds. The cat 3 winds were 50 miles to the east, which mkaes sense since it was unraveling as it was moving inland, just as Ivan was, remember, Ivan made landfall in Alabama, 50 miles west of Pensacola. This places Pensacola near the region of maximum winds. Dont use Opal to compare Ivan to for Pensacola since any "garden variety" cat 1 that makes a direct hit on the city will produce stronger winds than did Opal
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Derek Ortt
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Aslkahuna
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A hot wire anemometer operates on the principle that the wind will cause cooling of the wire. It's useless in heavy rain because the rain during high winds will be blown onto the wire causing more cooling than what the wind is doing. Just another example of the USAF Weather Agnecy (formerly Air Weather Service-or Circus as those of us who were in it called it) being sold a POS (kind of like ASOS for NWS).
The JT study was primarily concerned with winds over water since JT is part of a NAVY Agency. However, The person doing the study (Gary Atkinson I believe) also included land stations in the study ranging from Guam and Okinawa which are small island stations to places like Clark AB at the foothills of the Zambales Mountains and locations in Vietnam, Korea and Japan. He derived the table now used by NHC for the gust spread and noted in his study that overland the gust ratio was in the 1.5-1.6 range. An abstract of his study can be found in the Annual Typhoon Report for either 1971 or 1972-I'm not sure and it provides a reference to the complete study which may be available through USAF channels.
Steve
The JT study was primarily concerned with winds over water since JT is part of a NAVY Agency. However, The person doing the study (Gary Atkinson I believe) also included land stations in the study ranging from Guam and Okinawa which are small island stations to places like Clark AB at the foothills of the Zambales Mountains and locations in Vietnam, Korea and Japan. He derived the table now used by NHC for the gust spread and noted in his study that overland the gust ratio was in the 1.5-1.6 range. An abstract of his study can be found in the Annual Typhoon Report for either 1971 or 1972-I'm not sure and it provides a reference to the complete study which may be available through USAF channels.
Steve
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Anonymous
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The Big Dog
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Derek Ortt
