new ivan landfall info... no cat 4

[iceangel]

The last I heard was a strong cat. 3

I don't belive it was a cat 1 or 2. The damage was way far inland. I'm not sure how far but I believe I saw on this messageboard where someone had alot of damage up as far north as Cantonement. That's a bit more northern than I live and we had to temporarily move out for a few weeks. We stepped outside the next morning and we were devastated.

Everywhere looked like a war zone...trees, uprooted and snapped in half,(many roads blocked by falling trees) many shingles gone on all roofs in the neighborhood, Sheds completly demolished.privacy fences and even parts of brick wall were torn up. In fact, there is an apartment building(Royal Arms Apartments) not far from us with so much damage that they are gonna demolish it. People also had damage to swimming pools Ours had alot and it is underground. The pump and lining were destroyed. We also had a support beam on the porch just ripped right off. Alot of limbs a, leaves and pinestraw everywhere.
I went through Opal(cat 3) and Ivan just got stonger instead of weaker where I live. To say the least, IVAN was much,much worse than Opal!!

[Sanibel]

Also, the storm surge was more like a cat 4 in many areas here. I like one man's description that Ivan was like a boat with a big wake. Just because the wind speeds decreased before landfall didn't mean that the cat 4 and cat 5 wake it had built up over the previous few days was going to instantly subside.

Which is why I keep saying that the perfect tight form and eye just south of the north Gulf shore was a surge pusher that translated to high surge and probably those jet winds even though the storm wound down. Each storm has a different personality and the perfect form prior to the north Gulf was key to Ivan's destruction. If you want to know why he had such an unusually high surge just look there.

If you remember Ivan had passed over the warmest waters of his trip just prior to that form burst. He probably encountered a wall of continental air just as he assumed that perfect form and wound straight down. However, the surge was already formed and nothing was there to stop it...

If he had hit Pensacola in the middle of that burst they probably would have had higher damage...

[Derek Ortt]

everyone:

stop and reread this statement for the 1,000th time. I am getting just a little tired of having to keep re-typing this

<b>OPAL DID NOT BRING CAT 3 WINDS TO PENSACOLA. IT BROUGHT TS/CAT 1 WINDS</b> http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/1995opal.html

of course the winds in Ivan were stronger than in Opal. I have never suggested that Ivan did not bring hurricane winds to Pensacola, something which did not happen with Opal

[Derek Ortt]

regarding Frances and Jeanne:

The latest is 90KT for Frances and 105-110KT for Jeanne, which is about right according to the SFMR data

[Droop12]

Cat 1, Cat 2?? Their joking right? The damage in Pensacola from winds alone matches the description of a cat 3 perfectly given on the Saffir-Simpson scale. Its so ridiculous its funny, Nobody is gonna tell me what my family and friends all expirenced was a Cat 1, or 2. Here's the thing though, EVERYONE said this was much worse wind wise then Opal and Erin, If thats the case NHC seriously needs to re-anaylze Opal and Erin and inform us they made landfall as strong tropical storms. Hah, Give me a break. That article is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Im sorry.

[Derek Ortt]

droop,

reread my post above. You didnt get hurricane winds in Pensacola. The cat 3 winds were well east of Walton

[Droop12]

Ok Derek, I see what your saying. But I have a question about surge for ya. How high do you believe it was during Ivan? I'll give you a few things I know...By 7pm the night of landfall, what was already covering roads downtown. Bouy's offshore were measuring waves of 40 to 60 feet. I heard on the radio of a wave as high as 35 feet in the sound. Uhh, I-10 was destroyed partially on one side. And a shrimper my mom knows reported a wall of water 25ft+ that hit him and his boat, and it slowly dropped to around 15-18 for the remainder of the storm he said. Damage in and around my area where the surge hit was horrible to say the least, entire homes washed away. A canal near my home that we found out had never flooded in any hurricane, flooded. My estimate is it rose about 12 feet. The canal has whole roofs and is packed with boats and every kind of debris imagainable. So what is your thoughts on the sure, I really enjoy you opinions on things.

[Droop12]

I understand that Derek, I wasnt here for Opal though. Im hearing all this from neighbors and friends. And the damage they described sounds about like that of 70 to 80 mph winds. Surge during Opal they said wasnt to bad on soundfront homes, only the beach. For Ivan it was a problem for everyone, almost me and my house is 22 ft above sea level. Alot of my friends a street closer to the water then me said there families didnt have flood insurance because they were told they werent in flood zones.

[Derek Ortt]

surge was about 12-14 feet high in all liklihood, about the same as it was during Opal and only slightly higher than was Georges. Pensacola is suseptible to large waves, though, which make it seem as if the water is higher than it is. In Opal, the worst surge missed Pensacola Beach and the mainland didnt flood since the widns were offshore. The worst surge went into Walton and the unpopulated areas to the east


this was the first time pensacola has had sustained upper cat 1 or lower cat 2 winds since the terrible hurricane of 1926, which also wiped out Miami. Lower cat 1 in Erin, TS to lower 1 in Opal. Georges only brought moderate TS winds, Danny missed, as did Earl

[Droop12]

What was the Hurricane of 1926 rated when it hit Miami and Pensacola? I think I heard it was a strong 4 in Miami and a borderline 3/4 in Pensacola. I also think I remember hearing it stalled off the coast for nearly 24 hours, giving Pensacola a long period of damaging wind and surge.

[Derek Ortt]

I believe that is correct, plus a cat 1 landfall in Mississippi (did a small loop, came back offshore and into MS)

[Droop12]

And to think that a storm like that, could and very possibly will happen in the next 10 or 20 years is awful.

[Opal storm]

If the NHC does downgrade Ivan to a Cat 2,then this will be their first *MAJOR* screw up!Go to P'cola and check the damage out for yourself,I did.It actually looked worse than what Charley did...not saying Ivan was a 4 though,it was a strong 3,nothing less.

[Derek Ortt]

damage does not equate to intensity.

besides, these winds lasted for several hours, which causes much mroe damage than had these winds lasted as short as they did during charley

[Opal storm]

I still disagree.I'm not saying ALL of Pensacola felt those 130mph winds but in some isolated areas you can tell the difference between tornado damage and straight-wind damage,and there are some areas where you could tell they had 130mph sustained winds.The storm surge was catagory 5-like.

[Matthew5]

It was a cat5 over the southern Gulf of Mexico. Even if it came in as a tropical storm. It would of still been a large surge. Remember hurricane Isabel last year some of the largest surge in 50 years. But it was a weaking cat2. So it doe's not take a cat4 landfall to cause it.

[Ixolib]

The trees well north of the coast sure looked like they were impacted by greater than TS strength. Tornados??
http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=49866

[Derek Ortt]

the tidal surge was also consistent with a category three hurricane, and a very marginal one at that. The heights were 12-14 feet, only a foot or so higher than those from Hurricane Georges, just below cat 3.

People seem to forget that a strong category two or a marginal 3 can do terrible damage. Has everyone forgotten Fran already? The scenes from Ivan are so very consistent with those from Hurricane Fran, espoecially regarding the storm surge damage. I know many here are teens and may not remember Fran, but if you look at the photos, the damage is so very similar from both Ivan and Fran

any area receiving cat 2 or stronger winds is going to suffer severe damage

[Droop12]

I hate to disagree with you Derek cause you know alot more then I do, but where do you gather info that tells you surge was that of a minimal Cat 3? I dont get it, some areas that got hit by the surge are nearly 20 ft. above sea level. During Opal, surge only affected areas within the first block of the sound. During Ivan people up to 6 blocks from the water were flooded. Same as downtown P-Cola, the water made it to the Civic Center. Thats a half mile inland. While I disagree with you Derek, I respectfully disagree. You have alot more knowlegde then I do, and this is just what Im seeing around here. Good discussions nonetheless.

[Anonymous]

I would think 120 mph.