For those in Louisiana...

[frankthetank]

Check out this months issue of National Geographic...

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/index.html

[Sean in New Orleans]

You are going to be hearing alot about this over the next few years. We have been aware of this now and exactly how serious it is for about the last decade. But, now, the citizens and the State, itself are making a concerted effort to go after federal dollars. Our governor has already met with President Bush. There will be an effort to save the Louisiana Coastland that will be much, much larger than the campaign that saved the Florida Everglades. It's coming, and it's important for everyone.

[Ixolib]

You are going to be hearing alot about this over the next few years. We have been aware of this now and exactly how serious it is for about the last decade. But, now, the citizens and the State, itself are making a concerted effort to go after federal dollars. Our governor has already met with President Bush. There will be an effort to save the Louisiana Coastland that will be much, much larger than the campaign that saved the Florida Everglades. It's coming, and it's important for everyone.

"Everyone" is right, Sean... The continued loss of that marsh will have far reaching effects in many areas well beyond south LA.

[frankthetank]

Theres a picture of a mobile home in the magazine. Its about 15 feet in the air on wooden stilts...crazy...

[zoeyann]

That is very common in the bayou areas. In fact, my neighbor's trailer is raised like that.

[TS Zack]

Still there is no way to stop it. Then we get a Hurricane you will see pictures like that of the Superdome.

[wabbitoid]

Still there is no way to stop it.

That was my understanding, too, short of allowing New Orleans to flood again.

Some of you here mentioned there is a push to get Federal money. To do what?

I consider this an important hurricane topic, since I spent the better part of Ivan's journey through the Gulf wondering if New Orleans would be there on Friday -- and at one point, the odds looked to be about 50/50.

[Sean in New Orleans]

There has already been appropriated $2 Billion for wetlands preservation in Louisiana. And there will be over $10 Billion more for this project, at least, over the next decade...The United States is losing its' wetlands and they need to be saved. One of the projects, I know, involves, diverting waters from the Mississippi River to these areas to replenish the lands. They are a vital part of the infrastructure of the country. The project is similar to when we saved the Florida Everglades a few years back, except, it's a bit larger than that project to save the Louisiana Wetlands. You'll see commercials on TV about it in the fairly near future...

[Ixolib]

Pretty amazing stuff....

Coastal Louisiana has lost over 900,000 acres since the 1930s. As recently as the 1970s, the loss rate for Louisiana’s coastal wetlands was as high as 25,600 acres per year. The current rate of loss is about 16,000 acres per year. It is estimated that coastal Louisiana will experience a 320,000-acre net loss by the year 2050. The cumulative effect of human activities in the coastal area has been to drastically tilt the natural balance from the net land building deltaic processes to land loss due to altered hydrology, subsidence, and erosion. Approximately 30 percent of the land losses being experienced in coastal Louisiana are due to natural causes. The remaining 70 percent are attributable to man’s effect on the environment, both direct and indirect.

Here's a link for the rest of the story:
http://www.lca.gov/

Thanks, Frank, for bringing this to the board. I live right next door, and didn't realize the implications until now!!

[Huckster]

I've been interested in wetlands loss/coastal erosion for several years now. I've been all over southern Louisiana exploring the geography here. Take a trip through the coastal section of this state, and there are plenty of places where one can see tangible proof that this problem is going on. Not that anyone really doubts it. Some memorable sights I have personally seen are the dying cypress trees around Lake Pontchartrain, big stands of them, and also dying marsh and cypress trees in Terrebonne Parish. Farther out into the marsh, the effects are worse of course. The dead marsh is opening up into huge lakes. Existing lakes are getting bigger, bayous are getting wider. It seems like with each passing storm, it requires less and less intensity to inflict significant damage.

Unless you've got a really good, very detailed map of Louisiana, you might think that there's more land here than there really is. Once you get east of Morgan City, most of that stuff that looks like land on maps is really water and grass with the occasional natural levee along a bayou. Along those natural levees is where most of the coastal Louisiana towns are built. That's why there are not too many settlements here right on the Gulf.

Some towns have already disappeared and others almost certainly will in coming decades if not sooner. In the last 50 years or so, the landloss rate here as been 25 square miles per year. If I remember correctly, it may have even been at 35 square miles per year in the 1950's. So, let's be conservative and say 25 since during the last 50 years. That adds up to 1,250 square miles.

Unfortunately, I haven't come across any really feasible projects that could stop this or reverse it. After all, it took the Mississippi River thousands of years to build this fragile little deltaic peninsula. Short of dynamiting all the levees and locks that keep the river in check, I don't know how you could possibly divert enough richly sedimented water into the marshes to offset the amount of land being lost, and the amount already lost. The delta is a constantly changing environment, always adding land and losing it, but the rate it's being built cannot possibly keep up with the rate it's being lost nowadays. In fact, the Mississippi River itself is building little to no land near the mouth because the jetties in place there force the channel to be so deep and the current so swift that sediment cannot really build up. Besides, the continental shelf, which is pretty wide elsewhere along LA drops off rather dramatically near the present day mouth.

I am not an environmentalist "wacko," but this really is a serious problem with no easy solution in sight. The only absolute remedy that I can think of would kill the patient. It would be to allow the River to reclaim its floodplain, which would be even more disastrous in the short term than the current land loss.

This all plays very importantly into the hurricane situation. The last truly large major hurricane to make a direct hit on Louisiana was Betsy (Betsy was much larger and stronger than Andrew was in 1992 when it hit LA). We're in a significantly more dangerous situation now. We just don't have the kind of protection against storm surge today that we did then. My guess is that had New Orleans not had the barrier of marshes it did throughout the 18th Century, it would have disappeared like other little towns near the mouth of the river. As it was, it was subject to flooding practically any time a significant storm neared it. Another 1947 storm would be unimaginable.

Another issue that you hear of less often is whether or not storms striking southeast Louisiana would weaken less quickly than storms striking elsewhere due to the tremendous amount of water here. I know in the Hurricane FAQ page, I think by Chris Landsea, this question is mentioned somewhere, and the opinion there was that it wouldn't have much of an effect in maintaining the storm's intensity in a realistic scenario. However, I am pretty sure it's somewhere in the hurricane reanalysis stuff, that it is mentioned that hurricanes hitting Louisiana might not weaken at the same rate as storms elswhere afterall, maybe more like the rate of weakening for Florida storms. For example, when Betsy came ashore at Grand Isle, LA, the pressure was 28.00 in. At Houma, about 40 miles NW of there, the pressure was still 28.00 in. when the eye passed over. At Thibodaux, 60 miles NW of Grand Isle, the pressure had only risen to 28.02 in.

My own personal memories of storms in the last few years agrees with this. TS Bill last year did not seem to lose any of its punch after it made landfall until it got north of Lake Pontchartrain. It did not strengthen after landfall, but it certainly did not rapidly weaken. On radar, it looked better a couple of hours after landfall than it did before. When Isidore made landfall, it also kept a really impressive structure for quite a while after it made landfall. Hurricane Danny in 1997 also seemed little affected by its encounter with the delta region. I'd really be interested in any other, actually objective information anyone has on that subject.

However you look at it, a lot of southern LA sits on the brink of near annihilation every hurricane season, with or without coastal erosion/subsidence.

[HollynLA]

I was born and raised in south LA so I'm no stranger to this topic. The sad thing is I'm not sure there is anything we can do to stop it from happening, it's a never ending battle. Everything south of I-12 is riddled with lakes, bayous, streams, marshes etc. In some towns, I would swear there was more water than actual land. I fish the marshes all the time and it would be terrible to lose this beautiful land. Here are some interesting facts:
LA loses approx. 1 football field of marshland every 90 minutes
New Orleans' ground sinks about 1" per year

Interesting tidbit to add: On the northside of Lake Ponchatrain, on the corner of south pass entrance, is an old lighthouse sitting about 100' out in the water away from the bank. This was built when it was 50' inland 50 years ago. Now if that doesn't give you some idea how fast land is eroding, I don't know what will.

[frankthetank]

Just thought i'd add this in...



Heres a beautiful photo the mouth of the Mississippi...

hi res version here... http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsro ... 31_lrg.jpg

That road must of required some ingenuity to construct...also looks to be a disaster in the making?

I've also read that citrus are grown along the Mississippi down there, but due to salt water intrusion may not be for very long.




story here: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... _103106479

side note: I live right next to the Mississippi (La Crosse, WI) and have been a "river rat" since the day I was born.

[Sean in New Orleans]

You seem pretty interested in this area, frankthetank. If you ever come down to New Orleans, it would be fun and interesting for you to drive down that way through Plaquemines Parish. It's pretty down there, and they do have alot of orange groves and satsuma groves (local tangerine).

[Sean in New Orleans]

BTW--many don't realize this, but, it's about a 90 mile ride down Hwy. 23 until you get to Venice (the end of the road). The economy is pretty good down there too...income is high for many..some are poor, but, not too many. It's a nice road that is 4 lanes almost the entire way to Venice, LA, which is pretty close to the Mouth of the Mississippi.

[Lindaloo]

BTW--many don't realize this, but, it's about a 90 mile ride down Hwy. 23 until you get to Venice (the end of the road). The economy is pretty good down there too...income is high for many..some are poor, but, not too many. It's a nice road that is 4 lanes almost the entire way to Venice, LA, which is pretty close to the Mouth of the Mississippi.

The economy is not that good down in Venice. My cousins brother in law had to relocate to find work.

[Steve]

>>Some of you here mentioned there is a push to get Federal money. To do what?

Stem coastal erosion. US Senator Mary Landrieu has been trying to get a larger share of federal oil royalties for states who are actually the energy producers. Other states don't care now, but one day they will.

Louisiana's marshalands contribute something like 70% of the seafood, lots of the ducks, etc. that end up on your American dinner plate. There are several factors that have contributed to the erosion - flood protection, dredging, channels and canals, hurricanes and tropical storms, etc. When I was a kid, the only two states that were actually growing were Louisiana and Hawaii. That's obviously changed as the state is now washing away. I like to draw attention to a map of the United States. Louisiana looks NOTHING like they show it historically anymore. It's sad, but without federal money to fix what everyone else broke, we're all screwed.

Steve

[Tripleb]

Hello everyone. This is my first post at this site. Have been lurking for 2 years. This thread really hits home because I am from Port Sulphur, which is about 30 miles north of Venice. I see the effects of coastal erosion every time we have a scare like Ivan a couple of weeks ago. Ivan passed some 70 miles off the mouth of the river but the water was near the top of the levee in Boothville and only 5 to 4 feet from coming over in my hometown of Port Sulphur. We just do not have the protection we did 30 years ago with Betsy and Camille. Had Ivan passed 20 miles further west most of Lower Plaquemines parish would have been under water. My parents tell stories of our marshlands thriving 30 years ago. The Freeport canal which was dug for access to Freeport Sulphur Company’s Grande Eccai sulphur mines was originally 150 ft across is now probably close to 600ft across. I wonder why homes have sunk 12 inches in the 50 or so years since then. Could it have anything to do with sucking tons of sulphur from behind my house until there was nothing left?
Should Freeport, Exxon, Chevron, Conoco, Phillips, Texaco all be held liable for the damages that have been done? I think so. Oil companies have profited for years on our land. Should they have to foot the bill for restoration? At least some of it.
Don’t give up. There are projects that have helped. The fresh water diversion projects have done some good. You see healthy marshlands where those projects are located. I’m glad to see the push some of legislators have made to promote this loss of land nationwide. We need the help or before long the Superdome will be beachfront property.

[frankthetank]

I'm already in the planning stages of a road trip down the Mississippi. Would probably be sometime early winter. I'm waiting to order a new digital camera that hasn't even hit the store shelves yet. I'll be taking plenty of pictures when i do.

[gboudx]

That's scray TripleB. I spent a good part of my childhood further South of you in Buras. I had lots of family down there. We used to go trawling and fishing all the time. When I got older, my trips got more seldom. In fact, there was a break of about 8 years in between visits. As I crossed the Hwy 23 bridge in Empire, I was astonished at how little land was left outside the locks. It was very, very sad to see all that open water.

[Ixolib]

And another thing ya'll have to think about is protection on your east side. Chandeleur Island is quicky loosing itself to the Gulf. Georges, and now Ivan, wrecked havoc throughout the chain. Since Ivan, the north light is now free-standing, completely surrounded by water with the nearest land well south of it's original location. Curlew and Freemason Islands are also pretty much gone, so Breton Sound will soon become the open Gulf - and even minor storms approaching from the southeast will have a much more significant impact now then they would have in the past. The marshes and barrier islands that were once your protectors are really disappearing fast!! Another '47, Betsy, or Camille would certainly be a considerably worse impact today than in the past. And I don't think all the Christmas trees in the world will reverse the trend.....