Why Some People Do Not Evacuate

[seaswing]

It is very sad, and reports are coming all over as to why people didn't evacuate. There are many blaming the forecasting methods, the government, because they are idiots, etc. Some waited until it was too late and they had no recourse but to stay. The fact remains, some didn't and they have either lost their lives or everything they owned. One of the reasons is because they own pets~ and believe it or not, decide they will not leave them alone. I can relate to this but in viewing the TV, I saw that evacuation facilities more than not, will not accept pets. Some of these people are elderly, on fixed incomes who cannot afford to pay for their pet to stay in a kennel, etc. and there are not enough kennels, etc. that will board them for free. Some of these people consider their pets as children (as I do) and decide to stay for that reason. "Who would leave their child alone in a trailer/home during a hurricane?" some of them do not have the resources to leave with a pet~so they stay. More shelters should accomodate people and pets like the one near Orlando which housed pets in carriers on one end of the building and then people on the other. It was fantastic! when the person came in with their pet, a picture was taken with their pet and placed on the front of the cage to identify what pet and what person belonged to each other. It was a very organized place with each pets in a kennel. People could come and check on their pet whenever they wanted to but people without pets were allowed in as well. An excellent option for those who nneded to protect all that they loved. I HOPE that more evacuation shelters will accomodate people like this just as they do 'special needs' children and adults.

[lilbump3000]

Im tired of people blaming it on the forecasting method. I mean dont always go by that line thats in the middle of the forecast track because 9 out of 10 times the storm is going to go on either side of that line. Also i dont know why they are complaining because they were in the forecast cone or circle whatever you want to call it. So they should have been prepared like everybody else was.

[themusk]

It is very sad, and reports are coming all over as to why people didn't evacuate. There are many blaming the forecasting methods, the government, because they are idiots, etc. Some waited until it was too late and they had no recourse but to stay. The fact remains, some didn't and they have either lost their lives or everything they owned. One of the reasons is because they own pets~ and believe it or not, decide they will not leave them alone.

Yes.

What many of the (clearly non-emergency management professional) posters currently busy blaming victims don't realize is that there's an entire field of scientific research dedicated to finding out what people do in the face of disaster, why they do it, and how to persuade them to do the right thing. There are known reasons people don't evacuate, reasons other than "stupidity" or "irresponsibility", and the single largest reason people refuse evacuation is that they have pets they can't evacuate and won't abandon. This problem has been identified, and I believe that, within the next few years, emergency operation plans throughout the US will include provisions for public pet shelters.

It's not just better forecasting that has saved lives in recent years. After all, deaths are down for all hazards, even those that can't be predicted. It is, as much or even more, this very important lifesaving research that finds out what people need in order to do the right thing, and has taught emergency management professionals better ways to manage hazards, all the way from mitigation to recovery.

I imagine that the exasperation I sometimes have with weather buffs who, with no understanding of the science of emergency management, blame weather victims as "stupid" is exactly comparable to the weather buffs' exasperation when some newbie charges in here, looks at a weak cat. 1 about to make landfall in W. Texas, and announces that the storm has a real chance of striking Cape Cod. I guess we can't all know everything about everything. Still, the attitudes I sometimes see here strike me as meanspirited in the extreme.

[Steve Cosby]

There are known reasons people don't evacuate, reasons other than "stupidity" or "irresponsibility", and the single largest reason people refuse evacuation is that they have pets they can't evacuate and won't abandon. This problem has been identified, and I believe that, within the next few years, emergency operation plans throughout the US will include provisions for public pet shelters.

I imagine that the exasperation I sometimes have with weather buffs who, with no understanding of the science of emergency management, blame weather victims as "stupid" is exactly comparable to the weather buffs' exasperation when some newbie charges in here, looks at a weak cat. 1 about to make landfall in W. Texas, and announces that the storm has a real chance of striking Cape Cod. I guess we can't all know everything about everything. Still, the attitudes I sometimes see here strike me as meanspirited in the extreme.

Meanspirited? I'll tell you what meanspirited is: having a pet but not being prepared to deal with the pet in the face of something like this. It is irresponsible and, yes, stupid to blindly claim this as the reason to not evacuate.

The "science" of emergency management will never be able to deal with the person who refuses to properly prepare and do the "right thing". Another poster related this to drunk driving http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=37313&highlight=drinking+driving
.

The "science" of emergency management will never be able to deal with everything that causes people to not heed warnings but there are some things it shouldn't be forced to deal with. One of these is putting pets, kids, and others (like emergency rescue personnel) in danger because of your own stubborness or, yes, stupidity. Where does "personal responsibility" fall in the "science" of emergency management?

And I'll say this again - yes, I realize there are situations that can't be helped. Those are not the people I'm talking about.

I think I've probably gone far enough on this topic through a number of threads. I won't post further about it.

[MGC]

Heck, lots of people didn't evacuate when Camile hit the Mississippi coast. What puzzles me is that the people that refused to evacuate during Camile knew a Cat 5 was coming. The people in the Punta Gorda area wrongly assumed that Charley was going to hit Tampa, after all that was where the major media was reporting that Charley was going to make landfall....MGC

[SeaBrz_FL]

Orlando (Orange County) and Brevard County addressed the pet issue this year with listings of "pet friendly" facilities included in every one of their live evacuation location alerts. Some facilities were "stay with your pet", but others were drop off sites. Very few, depending on location, were Humane Societies, but that was an option.

Charlotte County (Punta Gorda) is a very small county in this state, but their website does have info about pet care during a disaster.

Regardless, I'm a pet lover, too, and I and agree with TheMusks' post. Especially with older people folks, often a pet is family.

[opera ghost]

It's not that they CAN'T evacaute with pets but that they WON'T or choose not to make preperations.

Would anyone in thier right mind prepare for a hurricane and decide to stay behind because they have a baby? Pets are a responsibility and the responsibility is to know your options and to make your plans!

I have Sebastian. By the end of this year We'll have 2 more cats. We know, in advance, of places to evacuate where we could take our pets. Hotels- family- friends. Pets are NO EXCUSE for not evacuating. They're only an excuse for people who are too freaking irresponsible to make plans and arrange other options! Those people would find other excuses to stay... but thier pets are convenient. "Oh... no one would take my dog..." Hotels are open to pets- friends and fmaily are options.

People shouldn't need to go to shelters at ALL- there should always be another option in case the shelters are full or you can't get to them.

I don't know why people don't get this. You have a pet- you make plans.... you dont' just use your pets as an excuse to do something stupid.

[SeaBrz_FL]

For the record (and according to my local news this hour), let's get this straight:

The MAJORITY of Charlotte County mobile home residents heeded warnngs and relocated to shelters prior to the storm REGARDLESS of the Tampa forecast!

The Disaster Relief teams have lightly mentioned how odd it is when "2 stayed from one 40 resident park", and "1 stayed from an 80 resident park", but the park we are hearing about had almost 80% of the residents decide to weather out the storm. Was this a community meeting? Or a decision among close neighbors?

We'll hear more about this one for sure.

[SeaBrz_FL]

OperaGhost -- If we have snowbirder retirees here living in MOBILE HOMES, it's usually because they have limited incomes. Opting for hotels and vet boarding is often outside of their budget.

Not making excuses for evacuating, but that's the reality. Also, their family is usually out of state.

[SeaBrz_FL]

People shouldn't need to go to shelters at ALL- there should always be another option in case the shelters are full or you can't get to them.

Huh?

[Mello1]

It's not that they CAN'T evacaute with pets but that they WON'T or choose not to make preperations.

Would anyone in thier right mind prepare for a hurricane and decide to stay behind because they have a baby? Pets are a responsibility and the responsibility is to know your options and to make your plans!

While the pet argument is interesting, I think the real reason that many folk did not evaluate this storm is the way this storm was reported. The only truly stupid people are those who truly do know the danger and decide to ride it out for fun. But I would venture to guess that most of those who stayed would say that they would have done differently if it had not been reported in the media that TB was such a certainity. Unlike many of the folk here, most people don't spend a lot of time getting themselves educated on the nuances of a hurricane. They depend and trust local officials and the media to sum it all up for them in 2 mins. If the summaries are misleading or the wrong things empathsized, then some people are at the mercy of having a lack of information and it will cost them their lives. Now, I'm not referring to the weather forecasters as they did their job. But it is scienfic in nature, therefore how that information gets intepreted and relayed is critical.

[SeaBrz_FL]

Mello -- I'm almost too pissed off at your post to reply, but I'll try. First of all, how dare you label all the deceased as "stupid"? Do you realize that they may have family members browsing this site??

Second of all, don't sit in your Chicago tower and give armchair directions on how people should think down here. I, unfortunately, had to live in the Illinois/Wisconsin area 3 years ago, and was alarmed at the stupid asses that drowned during ice fishing expeditions WITH WARNINGS of weak ice' or the number of fatalities from drunk snowmobile accidents.

How well have THOSE ALERTS helped?

[seaswing]

OperaGhost -- If we have snowbirder retirees here living in MOBILE HOMES, it's usually because they have limited incomes. Opting for hotels and vet boarding is often outside of their budget.

Exactly. Have you seen Punta Gorda? it is a retirement community with once were trailers right on the water! anyone who has been in Florida for a long time knows the risks of living there. Also, from what I have heard, even from the officials in Punta Gorda, it was a voluntary evacuation until the very end when it became apparent it was coming, then it was too late. Hell, there are people there tonight sleeping in what is left of their trailers to protect whatever it is they have left in them! Those trailers will have to be torn down because they will never be structurally 'sound' again. Yes to most of us, it is irresponsible but you know what? it is the reality. And I agree that more emphasis should be spent on the fact that we need to educate our residents (especially the elderly) who have never experienced a storm whether it be a cat 1 or 5. There were people who had no idea what was about to run them over, and just why is that? because they were all stupid? I don't think so. I realize you can't MAKE people learn, and as Jeb Bush said, we all understand hurricane amnesia, but to make plans is critical and education is needed. Complaceny in this state is the norm, stupid? well that could be debated from now until the next cat 4-5 hits us. I guess then we will know for sure.

[Aquawind]

OperaGhost -- If we have snowbirder retirees here living in MOBILE HOMES, it's usually because they have limited incomes. Opting for hotels and vet boarding is often outside of their budget.

Not making excuses for evacuating, but that's the reality. Also, their family is usually out of state.

Yep..family..Heck they are lucky if they have a real friend to drive them to the shelter or simply warn them...I remember up north when blizzards came or it got nasty cold they always reminded us to check the elderly..same thing applys here and evacuation is especially important if you can't run,swim,drive or simply walk...and yeah at that point your pet is your best friend period..

[Mello1]

Mello -- I'm almost too pissed off at your post to reply, but I'll try. First of all, how dare you label all the deceased as "stupid"? Do you realize that they may have family members browsing this site??

Second of all, don't sit in your Chicago tower and give armchair directions on how people should think down here. I, unfortunately, had to live in the Illinois/Wisconsin area 3 years ago, and was alarmed at the stupid arses that drowned during ice fishing expeditions WITH WARNINGS of weak ice' or the number of fatalities from drunk snowmobile accidents.

How well have THOSE ALERTS helped?

I think that you perhaps misunderstood my post, maybe not. Some people do deliberately ride out storms for the fun of it. Unfortuately, it's no different than people who have liver disease caused by drinking, yet they still drink. At some point, others are going to have to accept the consequences for the actions people like that take with their lives. Perhaps stupid was too strong of a word, given the ability of people on message boards to react before they read thru a post. I am sorry that I offended you. But believe it or not, I didn't always live in Chicago, and I don't live in an ivory tower, believe me. Most of my relatives and good friends live in hurricane zones.

[opera ghost]

Just what it said SeaBrz_FL

People should have evacuation plans in place well in advance of a storm coming. Out of state family? Sounds great. Limited income is NO reason to stay behind with your pets. If staying with a pet is enough of a reason to stay behind in a TRAILER in a HURRICANE... then spending whatever money you have and getting out of dodge with the same pet should be just as good of an option. Get in your car and *evacuate* to someplace where the hurricane can't catch you.

If it's a choice between not eating for a week or living on charity for a while- and never eating again because your dead because you wanted to stay with Fido in a trailer in a storm... well I think the choice should be bloody well clear.

The first choice shouldn't be- I'll run to a shelter and wait it out. The first choice should be going someplace outside of the hurricane's reach and waiting in safety. The people in Arcadia who had the roof blown off thier shelter were lucky that no one was killed. I can't imagine the first choice being to hit a shelter in case of an evacuation.... it would always be my last desperate choice after all the other plans have gone wrong.

But I know that's not how it works. Most people don't look at the storm and turn tail and run from it. They believe they can manage it. If they're not safe at home- well 20 miles away in a shelter is safer. It's still in the middle of a hurricane. Who in thier right mind wants to be in the middle of a hurricane?

[Mello1]

Exactly. Have you seen Punta Gorda? it is a retirement community with once were trailers right on the water! anyone who has been in Florida for a long time knows the risks of living there. Also, from what I have heard, even from the officials in Punta Gorda, it was a voluntary evacuation until the very end when it became apparent it was coming, then it was too late. Hell, there are people there tonight sleeping in what is left of their trailers to protect whatever it is they have left in them! Those trailers will have to be torn down because they will never be structurally 'sound' again. Yes to most of us, it is irresponsible but you know what? it is the reality. And I agree that more emphasis should be spent on the fact that we need to educate our residents (especially the elderly) who have never experienced a storm whether it be a cat 1 or 5. There were people who had no idea what was about to run them over, and just why is that? because they were all stupid? I don't think so. I realize you can't MAKE people learn, and as Jeb Bush said, we all understand hurricane amnesia, but to make plans is critical and education is needed. Complaceny in this state is the norm, stupid? well that could be debated from now until the next cat 4-5 hits us. I guess then we will know for sure.

I thought the same as well until someone was kind enough to post the mandatory evac order for that region that was issued 24 hrs. before Charlie slammed in. Maybe they weren't paying attention or prehaps they thought that they had more time.

[themusk]

It's not that they CAN'T evacaute with pets but that they WON'T or choose not to make preperations.

I refer you to my refutation of your argument earlier:

http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=37170

I don't want to repeat it here, but I would like to see your point-by-point refutation.

I'd also like to draw your attention to the point that the original question came from someone involved in emergency management in another part of the world who was baffled as to why America made no provisions for pets at shelters. Certainly suggests that professionals in other parts of the world think the issue is real, yes?

While I'm at it, I'd like to suggest that, if you believe your views are entirely correct, that you write FEMA and ask them to correct their current recommendations to communities, from "plan for pets, or lose human lives" to "call all persons who are poor, elderly, disabled, have no transportation, or no nearby family, or work at jobs like nursing that limit their options for evacuation, etc, and who have pets (including medically sanctioned companion and therapy animals), irresponsible and/or suicidal idiots". I'm sure they'll appreciate your constructive advice on how to save lives.

I also suggest to those of you who belive that vitriol is a substitute for knowledge and that hazards research isn't a science to visit an old employer of mine, the Natural Hazards Research and Applications Information Center, and start reading. They offer an excellent free bimonthly newsletter, the Natural Hazards Observer. Sign up at the website, and start to educate yourself. A few well spent dollars will buy you one of their superb monographs.

People shouldn't need to go to shelters at ALL- there should always be another option in case the shelters are full or you can't get to them.

Actually, public policy is exactly the opposite -- shelters are a place of last resort. They're where you go when you have no other options left to try.

[FireCracker]

Actually, public policy is exactly the opposite -- shelters are a place of last resort. They're where you go when you have no other options left to try

Actually, as one that works in the county EOC on occasion, shelters are divided into three basic types. Special needs, risk and host. In other words here in Florida, we opened shelters for those who felt unsafe where they live. In Florida, state statute requires all new schools be built to shelter code. Our designated shelters are not "last resort" but first resort to those homeless, in mobile homes or from other areas. To us here in hurrincane land. a shelter of last resort is ANY building other than a designated shelter. For more information contact your local emergency management department.

[themusk]

Get in your car and *evacuate* to someplace where the hurricane can't catch you.

The poor, disabled, and elderly rarely have cars.

If it's a choice between not eating for a week

Do you know of motels that will house people on the promise that they'll skip the next week's worth of meals and give them the money? I don't. Or do you really believe that the average poor person usually has fifty or a hundred bucks in their wallet at any given time (uh, no, not unless it's the first of the month or whenever else their pension comes in or McDonald's is handing out paychecks). Oh, and by the way, does your plan for skipping food for a week also apply to diabetics?

or living on charity for a while

What charity? I know of no agency, public or private, that hands out hotel money on demand. Or, for that matter, food money on demand.

- and never eating again because your dead because you wanted to stay with Fido in a trailer in a storm... well I think the choice should be bloody well clear.

No, that's not the choice as processed by the human mind. But I guess you don't believe in the "science" of psychology either.

The first choice shouldn't be- I'll run to a shelter and wait it out. The first choice should be going someplace outside of the hurricane's reach and waiting in safety.

False. the rule of thumb is you flee from water and hide (as in hunker down in a safe place) from wind. Anything else leads to dangerous and unnecessary traffic jams clogging the roads when the storm arrives. Even I, nestled safely in Vermont, know this (though, in all fairness, I've done plenty of coursework in hurricane preparedness and have previously lived in hurricane country)

I can't imagine the first choice being to hit a shelter in case of an evacuation.... it would always be my last desperate choice after all the other plans have gone wrong.

As it's supposed to be, though elsewhere you claim the opposite -- that you should check the shelters fiorst, then have backup plans.

But I know that's not how it works. Most people don't look at the storm and turn tail and run from it. They believe they can manage it. If they're not safe at home- well 20 miles away in a shelter is safer. It's still in the middle of a hurricane. Who in thier right mind wants to be in the middle of a hurricane?

*sigh* ...whatever you say.