I hate Topeka... the Topeka NWS.. and the Topeka Bubble!

Winter Weather Discussion

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David
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I hate Topeka... the Topeka NWS.. and the Topeka Bubble!

#1 Postby David » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:45 pm

Ok... this has to be like the 5th time i've seen this happen. I hate Topeka and it's bubble! Thw Winter Storm Watch has been downgraded to a Winter Weather Advisory. Read my email to the NWS I sent this evening..

Hello.. my name is David Tindall, I've emailed you a couple times, along with sending in severe weather reports.

I'm emailing you in regard of the Winter Weather Advisory effective for Topeka/Shawnee County. I've seen this thing happen every year. It's a watch/warning, and gets downgraded every time. I would think you would only upgrade (start out with an advisory, move up to watch or warning as needed)., not downgrade. I can understand that Topeka always (most of the time) misses the storms or snow, I call it the "bubble" surrounding us.. giving us no weather, but the Winter WX Advisory area in NE/EC Kansas is just a little misplaced in my opinion. It doesn't look, or seem right touching a Winter Storm Watch and Warning.

I understand that you have all the models and you make the last call... but I just don't see why Topeka is always downgraded to an advisory. If there is a reason, when/if you have time, please email me back if I have missed anything or there is an explanation I should hear for the advisory.

Thank you for your time.

David Tindall


This just ticks me off... this is the 2nd year in a row it's happened. 1-3 inches now.. probably no rain or snow either. :roll:

-David
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#2 Postby Dr Spectrum » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:55 pm

Do you have any military bases close by? Maybe they are testing some type of high tech field generators. (No kidding - I'm serious!)
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#3 Postby Guest » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:57 pm

And the bubble Lives on! :eek: :lol:
Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#4 Postby David » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:57 pm

Not really... there is Forbes Field close by. I guess that's considered a Military Base.. it has the 180th Air Refuling Wing.
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#5 Postby Dr Spectrum » Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:05 pm

David wrote:Not really... there is Forbes Field close by. I guess that's considered a Military Base.. it has the 180th Air Refuling Wing.


Doesn't sound like anything TOO important. I've seen these "Bubbles" before. They are usually out West, even further West than you. I've heard it's just the NWS testing/recalibrating the equipment but I don't know....

At least you got some severe weather in the summer, as I see in your sig. I get all kinds of weather up here in Ohio. We even had a severe outbreak last year, almost to the day, in November. I remember telling my neighbor to watch out and they were like, "Yea, Right". I think they changed their minds after the sirens went off and then a little later the power went off! :lol:

Oh well, back to the winter weather discussions. Don't keep looking down on this weather all the time....You'll get your break!
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#6 Postby wx247 » Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:08 pm

Some snow is better than no snow David. C'mon now! :)
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#7 Postby StormCrazyIowan » Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:23 pm

David, I live in BUBBLE ZONE as well! I feel your pain!! I will be skeptical of this storm until I'm scraping 4-7" off my car!! :D If.... :lol:
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#8 Postby David » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:31 pm

Here's the responce to my email...

Hi, David! Thanks for the note and inquiry. Actually, the information process starts with a watch with is a longer term (24-60 hours) heads up/outlook that winter weather is possible over a wide area. After a watch, then the next product could be a warning, advisory or nothing, depending on what is expected. The watch is based on projected info from computer models that are run every 6 to 12 hours. They almost always show different scenarios as to what "may" happen, when and where. Forecasters at each NWS office review the models, know the biases, have discussions among offices and in offices, and then come to decision as to what may be the best approach at the time. Naturally, with as more info becomes available and as the storm begins to take shape, more definition and details can be firmed up. Also, model and forecaster biases can be smoothed out. We have certain national/regional criteria we must also work with with regard to some amounts etc. A winter weather advisory is snowfall under 6 inches, while a warning is over 6 inches in 8 hours.

In the case yesterday, a watch was issued for Shawnee county at 3AM for Tuesday and Tuesday night based on the potential threat of heavy snow, freezing rain and blowing/drifting snow. With later model runs during the day, the forecaster felt we would get more rain than snow, and that snow accumulations would be under 6 inches which is the minimum winter storm criteria. He also felt based on his experience and other indications that the other elements, freezing rain, blowing snow etc, would not be as significant, and thus a winter weather advisory would be the best approach. In contrast, the Wichita forecaster felt he would get more sleet and freezing rain that would justify a winter storm warning in his area...and at the same time, in the Kansas City area, the forecaster was not yet confident what would happen so far out, and wanted to keep a winter storm watch for the potential of severe winter weather.

Although it may appear things should be seamless, there is usually a sharp boundary and cutoff with winter storms and forecasters are trying to blend as best they can. Forecasts are also made for each county, and some counties are large with large variations in weather.

You may have watched channel 4 out of KC last evening and noticed "a doughnut" as the weathercaster referred to over northeast Kansas. This was a problem of his display as a winter weather advisory was posted for this area, and I am not sure why his display did not pick this up. I will check because it gave the impression something was missing.

I hope this answers your questions on winter weather. I would be most happy to have you visit the weather office for a tour, demonstration of our equipment and visit with some of the on duty forecasters. Just let me know and we will set up a time and date.

Thnaks again,
Mike Akulow
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#9 Postby Anonymous » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:35 pm

Dr Spectrum wrote:Do you have any military bases close by? Maybe they are testing some type of high tech field generators. (No kidding - I'm serious!)


Okay, Dr. Spectrum!!

Out with it!! What kind of field generators are those?

The Truth is Out There, and we want it NOW!



SnowBlitzJEB
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#10 Postby pojo » Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:03 pm

David, we have that same problem also. Usually the central portion of the state picks up the most snow, while, the NE Wis areas get less. Whether it is a storm system (winter or summer) Lake Michigan causes changes in the weather around the Fox River Valley and along the shorelines.
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#11 Postby Stormchaser16 » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:07 pm

David, i can understand your frustration, whenever you are looking forward to a winter storm and it gets downgraded, it is tough. You just have to deal with that. The NWS does the best job they can IMO and i like the fact that they are usually conservative from the beginning so as not to alarm some people. This in my opinion is a good way to forecast, and as the event gets closer they can adjust the forecast and upgrade as needed. Calling for a huge snowstorm only to have to downgrade it, is something that is not a great way to approach a forecast. With this said, the NWS in my opinion does a reasonable job, and they are generally very nice people. I.E the person who promptly responded to your email and even offered to set up a date and time for you to PERSONALLY come to the NWS office and talk with the mets on hand. It frustrates me when people pick apart the NWS forecasts even from 6+ days out, you gotta give them some lee way somewhere.
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