When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#521 Postby Category5Kaiju » Mon May 13, 2024 8:10 am

You know, this question was indeed interesting in 2015. Since then:

1. We had an above average season with one of Haiti's worst natural disasters.
2. We had Texas, Florida, and Puerto Rico get impacted by Cat 4 hurricanes.
3. We had a flooding disaster in the Carolinas and a Cat 5 landfall in Florida.
4. We had a Cat 5 landfall in the Bahamas and one of the strongest hurricanes of all time.
5. We had yet another Cat 4 CONUS landfall and two systems that brought devastation to Central America and an end to Greek alphabet naming.
6. We had yet another Cat 4 CONUS landfall.
7. We had Florida's costliest hurricane on record.
8. We had a Cat 3 CONUS landfall.

So, yeah, idk. You tell me what's happening. :lol:
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#522 Postby ScottNAtlanta » Mon May 13, 2024 10:45 am

We talk about a "27 year" oscillation, but in all honesty, how long have we had real comprehensive ocean data? My guess is that it would be hard to identify 30+- cycles because of that.
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#523 Postby MEANINGLESS_NUMBERS » Mon May 13, 2024 1:27 pm

Clearly the multi-decade oscillation looks different as the baseline drifts upwards. This is climate change.
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#524 Postby skyline385 » Mon May 13, 2024 2:23 pm

ScottNAtlanta wrote:We talk about a "27 year" oscillation, but in all honesty, how long have we had real comprehensive ocean data? My guess is that it would be hard to identify 30+- cycles because of that.


Even the guy who came up with the AMO doesn't believe its an oscillating cycle anymore. The era will probably end sometime but with global warming its not going to be much cooler.
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#525 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri May 17, 2024 8:47 am

I think if I traveled back in time to 2015 and told everybody here that in 5 years the Atlantic would break 2005's NS record and that after that the Atlantic would be no longer using the Greek alphabet, I probably would've been flamed and received a nice stern warning about trolling by the admins :lol:
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#526 Postby wxman57 » Fri May 17, 2024 10:09 am

I've discussed this with Klotzbach. It looked like we went into a cool cycle in 2013. See the link below. However, the tropics kept spiking warm every summer. Quite different from the previous cool cycle.

http://wxman57.com/images/AMO.jpg

Image
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#527 Postby Teban54 » Fri May 17, 2024 10:43 am

wxman57 wrote:I've discussed this with Klotzbach. It looked like we went into a cool cycle in 2013. See the link below. However, the tropics kept spiking warm every summer. Quite different from the previous cool cycle.

http://wxman57.com/images/AMO.jpg

http://wxman57.com/images/AMO.jpg

Judging from this chart alone, could it be that the "cool cycle" only lasted about 10 years (2013-2022) before returning to the warm cycle in 2023? Also, given the activity of these years (especially since 2016) that are unmatched in previous -AMO eras, perhaps even the -AMO "era" much more active now than they previously were?

(All this is assuming we had a cool cycle in the first place.)
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#528 Postby MEANINGLESS_NUMBERS » Fri May 17, 2024 12:56 pm

Teban54 wrote:
wxman57 wrote:I've discussed this with Klotzbach. It looked like we went into a cool cycle in 2013. See the link below. However, the tropics kept spiking warm every summer. Quite different from the previous cool cycle.

http://wxman57.com/images/AMO.jpg

http://wxman57.com/images/AMO.jpg

Judging from this chart alone, could it be that the "cool cycle" only lasted about 10 years (2013-2022) before returning to the warm cycle in 2023? Also, given the activity of these years (especially since 2016) that are unmatched in previous -AMO eras, perhaps even the -AMO "era" much more active now than they previously were?

(All this is assuming we had a cool cycle in the first place.)


The baseline is rising.
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#529 Postby NotSparta » Fri May 17, 2024 6:10 pm

wxman57 wrote:I've discussed this with Klotzbach. It looked like we went into a cool cycle in 2013. See the link below. However, the tropics kept spiking warm every summer. Quite different from the previous cool cycle.

http://wxman57.com/images/AMO.jpg

http://wxman57.com/images/AMO.jpg


Reminds me of the +PDO in the 2010s. It does exist there but ends rather quickly as we are evidently not in -AMO anymore (in agreement with the graph)
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#530 Postby Teban54 » Sat Aug 31, 2024 3:22 pm

I am bumping this thread not because I want to argue the answer is any recent year nor that we're in a new -AMO era, but solely as a response to this comment in the latest 2024 thread, as I feel the point about AMO is distracting for that discussion.

zal0phus wrote:I'm usually an extremely bullish forecaster, but the fact that recent seasons, and especially this one, have been so strange is making me wonder whether the AMO is beginning to flip. Maybe 2018 was the last positive AMO year? It would line up with 1969, another year with a Category 5 landfall on the Gulf coast, as the end of its own AMO+ era.

I'm not sure what the state-of-the-art measure of AMO is, but I found two sources from a quick Google: CSU's index and NOAA's index. Here's the CSU table since 2017:

Image

Almost all years had non-negative AMO in August and September, with the sole exception of -- guess what -- 2018. The only other year that had negative CSU AMO in Oct/Nov is 2020, but those two months gave us the most active late season on record. In comparison, during the last -AMO era (1970-1994), only two years had non-negative CSU AMO in September: 1981 and 1987.

The NOAA index seems a lot more positive than CSU's (it had never dropped below 1 since May 2023, for example). But using the NOAA index makes the trend even clearer: The last month that had a negative NOAA AMO was December 1996, and no individual month in the last -AMO era had NOAA AMO above 1 like we have just experienced for 15 months in a row.

The caveat is that I'm not sure how much either index accounts for global warming. It looks like NOAA's index may be more prone to it than CSU's. But combining both indices and the fact that SSTAs for two years in a row have resembled a strong +AMO pattern, I can't see how we're anywhere close to -AMO.
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#531 Postby cycloneye » Fri Jul 18, 2025 10:55 am

Bumping thread for any member(s) who may want to comment about this important topic as time continues to advance and is mid 2025. This thread was made by me on July 30 2014. :D
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#532 Postby StormWeather » Fri Jul 18, 2025 11:08 am

I personally think the current +AMO will end in the 2030s or even in the early 2040s.
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#533 Postby Ptarmigan » Wed Jul 30, 2025 9:56 pm

Even during warm phases, I have seen AMO cool down. Or vice versa during cool phases, when AMO warms up.
https://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/cmb ... v5.amo.dat
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#534 Postby Category5Kaiju » Sat Nov 01, 2025 3:32 pm

At this point, I'm really starting to wonder if the answer to this question would be, "not for a while; at least, not anytime in the near future."

I think something in the Atlantic basin really changed around the 2016 timeframe. Maybe it was something about the 2015 Super El Nino, or maybe it was something else entirely. Since then, we've basically been stuck in an era of consistent, above-average, and oftentimes destructive activity, featuring numerous Category 5 hurricanes and horrific CONUS Gulf landfalls. The closest season we got to something less impressive was 2022, and even then, it was near-normal ACE-wise and still featured 2 destructive major hurricanes (on of which was a Category 5).

Don't get me wrong; between 1995 and 2016, we've seen some gnarly storms and seasons. 1998, 2004, and 2005 to name a few. However, the consistency and ferocity of activity since 2016 has been nothing short of astounding.
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#535 Postby MarioProtVI » Sun Nov 02, 2025 5:36 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:At this point, I'm really starting to wonder if the answer to this question would be, "not for a while; at least, not anytime in the near future."

I think something in the Atlantic basin really changed around the 2016 timeframe. Maybe it was something about the 2015 Super El Nino, or maybe it was something else entirely. Since then, we've basically been stuck in an era of consistent, above-average, and oftentimes destructive activity, featuring numerous Category 5 hurricanes and horrific CONUS Gulf landfalls. The closest season we got to something less impressive was 2022, and even then, it was near-normal ACE-wise and still featured 2 destructive major hurricanes (on of which was a Category 5).

Don't get me wrong; between 1995 and 2016, we've seen some gnarly storms and seasons. 1998, 2004, and 2005 to name a few. However, the consistency and ferocity of activity since 2016 has been nothing short of astounding.

The straightforward answer is that +AMOs have mini-periods of inactivity. 2013-15 was the last such period, and if one looks back to the previous +AMO era (1920s to ‘69) one can find similar cool periods of a few years. The stretch of heightened activity since 2016 appears to be caused by the persistent ASW (African Standing Wave) that up until this year was responsible for getting us many 15+ NS seasons in a row, leading to us getting the periods of “storm spam”, where the monsoon trough would break down into several disturbances and eventually named storms around peak season, and likely also contributed partially to an abundance of subtropics activity too. This year however the ASW vanished, which was why we didn’t see any MT breakdowns or much of any subtropics activity, which is why we’re likely ending 13-5-4 despite 133 ACE. And about 2015, I think it actually was saved by the ASW by causing the heightened MDR activity, if it hadn’t existed and was delayed a year, then the Super Nino would’ve caused 2015 to likely be a 1997 repeat but closer in vein to 1983, given how everything else was practically dead that year.

I think we’re probably entering the next mini-period of inactivity/cool period within the +AMO era, and the lack of the ASW IMO is a big key player towards this. There’s a good chance that 2026 gets Nino’ed based on modeling, and if the ASW is not present next year as well, then we might see a more classic Nino season we haven’t seen since 2006 or 2009. Perhaps 2025 could be included in this because of the lack of hurricanes compared to total NS (13 vs only 5), but the 3 C5s and high ACE really discourages me from grouping it with that. Maybe 2025 is the transition year to this mini-period? I don’t know. All I know is next year will likely tell us if we’re gonna have a cooldown in activity, and if so, we probably see a rebound by 2027/28.
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#536 Postby cycloneye » Sun Nov 02, 2025 5:42 pm

Made this thread 11 years ago and there is still a great debate about it. Keep it going as we learn different things from this.
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#537 Postby MarioProtVI » Sun Nov 02, 2025 6:22 pm

cycloneye wrote:Made this thread 11 years ago and there is still a great debate about it. Keep it going as we learn different things from this.

To be fair I think more debate has come from the one study that claimed +AMO isn’t a thing and is just us using a small collection of data to make that assumption. So we’re basically just seeing if these seasons seem to be lining up with that or not. But who knows :lol:
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#538 Postby FireRat » Mon Nov 03, 2025 3:35 am

I have a feeling the 2030s will be a significant decade in which we'll probably "see" if we entered a new cool AMO phase...
Perhaps 1995-2025 to 2029 is the active phase, and ~ 2030 we enter the "quieter" phase (in which climate change might up the baseline).

Multi-decade Perhaps meaning ~ 35 active years & ~ 25 quieter years in general. :idea:
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#539 Postby jconsor » Wed Nov 05, 2025 7:26 am

Some thoughts on ENSO heading into next hurricane season: https://x.com/yconsor/status/1986046871349936133
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Re: When will the multi-decade active era that began in 1995 end?

#540 Postby weeniepatrol » Thu Nov 06, 2025 4:01 pm

It’s crazy that for decade after decade after decade; Labor Day 1935 stood alone as the sole 160 kt landfall. Then, we observe TWO more in just a six year span (Dorian 2019, Melissa 2025).

Exceptional.
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