2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

This is the general tropical discussion area. Anyone can take their shot at predicting a storms path.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
User avatar
chaser1
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 5464
Age: 64
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Longwood, Fl

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1381 Postby chaser1 » Wed Aug 30, 2023 10:43 am



Fascinating! Two majors in August on the same day barely qualified but looks like it did occur. Franklin's winds were downgraded to 110 mph at 5:00am but was still at Cat 3 (111 mph +) threshold at the 2:00am advisory early this Wednesday morning.
0 likes   
Andy D

(For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.)

User avatar
weeniepatrol
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:30 pm
Location: WA State

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1382 Postby weeniepatrol » Wed Aug 30, 2023 4:27 pm

Moderate, strengthening to Strong El Nino.

Image

On todays' date, 30 August, we stand at 10/3/2

Image

Current ACE to date is 136% of average.
3 likes   

User avatar
weeniepatrol
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:30 pm
Location: WA State

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1383 Postby weeniepatrol » Wed Aug 30, 2023 4:31 pm

List of Strong+ El Nino years and seasonal major hurricane count:

1957 (2 majors)
1965 (1 major)
1972 (0 majors)
1982 (1 major)
1991 (2 majors)
1997 (1 major)
2009 (2 majors)
2015 (2 majors)

This means that it is only 30 August and we have already tied or exceeded the major hurricane count of literally ever other Strong+ El Nino year (since 1950) on record.

If we define peak season as 20 August to 20 October, we are only 16% of the way through peak and already accomplished this. Lol
3 likes   

User avatar
WalterWhite
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:53 pm

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1384 Postby WalterWhite » Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:50 pm

We are currently at 10/3/2.

We can get a realistic "minimum" for the rest of the season by analyzing storms that formed from August 31 onwards during the hurricane seasons from 2016 to 2022.

2016: 7/3/3
2017: 8/5/3
2018: 10/6/2
2019: 13/4/2
2020: 17/10/6
2021: 10/3/2
2022: 11/8/2

The minimum number of storms that formed from August 31 onwards during this timeframe was 7 (for 2016); for hurricanes, that number was 3 (for 2016 and 2021); for major hurricanes, that number was 2 (for 2018, 2019, 2021, and 2022). This list includes both +ENSO and -ENSO years, as well as seasons with insane late-season activity (such as 2020) and little to no late-season activity (such as 2021). Based on this, we could realistically infer that the minimum season totals for this season would be 17/6/4. We could see a season with a higher storm count, hurricane count, and major hurricane count; but recent trends indicate that finishing below these numbers is likely.
0 likes   

User avatar
Category5Kaiju
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4097
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1385 Postby Category5Kaiju » Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:01 pm

weeniepatrol wrote:List of Strong+ El Nino years and seasonal major hurricane count:

1957 (2 majors)
1965 (1 major)
1972 (0 majors)
1982 (1 major)
1991 (2 majors)
1997 (1 major)
2009 (2 majors)
2015 (2 majors)

This means that it is only 30 August and we have already tied or exceeded the major hurricane count of literally ever other Strong+ El Nino year (since 1950) on record.

If we define peak season as 20 August to 20 October, we are only 16% of the way through peak and already accomplished this. Lol


Also worth noting that this season also saw a 926 mbar Category 4 hurricane, which is the most intense Atlantic storm in a moderate Nino since 1950 (Joaquin is the most powerful wind-speed wise). But who knows...September might surprise us even more as far as we could tell.
2 likes   
Unless explicitly stated, all info in my posts is based on my own opinions and observations. Tropical storms and hurricanes can be extremely dangerous. Do not think you can beat Mother Nature. Refer to an accredited weather research agency or meteorologist if you need to make serious decisions regarding an approaching storm.

HurakaYoshi
Tropical Low
Tropical Low
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:37 pm

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1386 Postby HurakaYoshi » Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:45 pm

weeniepatrol wrote:List of Strong+ El Nino years and seasonal major hurricane count:

1957 (2 majors)
1965 (1 major)
1972 (0 majors)
1982 (1 major)
1991 (2 majors)
1997 (1 major)
2009 (2 majors)
2015 (2 majors)

This means that it is only 30 August and we have already tied or exceeded the major hurricane count of literally ever other Strong+ El Nino year (since 1950) on record.

If we define peak season as 20 August to 20 October, we are only 16% of the way through peak and already accomplished this. Lol


To add to that, the years with 2 majors had their second one in September, except Joaquin (formed in Sept) but became a major in October). Also, the season already had more ACE than half of them listed; it should end up higher than 2009 after Idalia and Franklin. Unless September is too inactive, I think NATL will finish with one more major and within near-normal ACE.
0 likes   

User avatar
captainbarbossa19
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 1092
Age: 27
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:09 pm
Location: Beaumont, TX

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1387 Postby captainbarbossa19 » Wed Aug 30, 2023 10:47 pm

Image

CFS thinks that there won't be a lot of weaknesses out there.
0 likes   

User avatar
Hammy
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 5849
Age: 41
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1388 Postby Hammy » Thu Aug 31, 2023 4:34 am

With Jose squeezing out one more name right before the month ends, we've had 6/2/2 over a mere 12 day span
8 likes   
The above post is not official and should not be used as such. It is the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is not endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145306
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1389 Postby cycloneye » Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:23 am

1 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here

User avatar
Category5Kaiju
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4097
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1390 Postby Category5Kaiju » Thu Aug 31, 2023 8:54 am

Unlike last year, literally every depression seems to be able to find a way to turn into a named storm.

Just shows you how much more favorable the conditions are now compared to last year. Talk about the irony.
4 likes   
Unless explicitly stated, all info in my posts is based on my own opinions and observations. Tropical storms and hurricanes can be extremely dangerous. Do not think you can beat Mother Nature. Refer to an accredited weather research agency or meteorologist if you need to make serious decisions regarding an approaching storm.

User avatar
WalterWhite
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:53 pm

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1391 Postby WalterWhite » Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:09 am

The CFSv2 and CanSIPS are showing sinking air over Africa and the Indian Ocean over September.

Image

Image
0 likes   

WeatherBoy2000
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 346
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:29 am

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1392 Postby WeatherBoy2000 » Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:43 am

 https://twitter.com/yconsor/status/1697122474104672693




 https://twitter.com/DerekOrtt/status/1697183569196507502




It looks like things could remain busy for at least the first half of September with rising motion over Africa/Eatl and linger sinking over the Pacific. Hard to doubt it with the activity we've seen in the last 10 or so days along with peak climo.
1 likes   

User avatar
Iceresistance
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9288
Age: 21
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:45 am
Location: Tecumseh, OK/Norman, OK

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1393 Postby Iceresistance » Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:08 am

WeatherBoy2000 wrote:https://twitter.com/yconsor/status/1697122474104672693

https://twitter.com/DerekOrtt/status/1697183569196507502

It looks like things could remain busy for at least the first half of September with rising motion over Africa/Eatl and linger sinking over the Pacific. Hard to doubt it with the activity we've seen in the last 10 or so days along with peak climo.


Also in an El Nino year, this is extremely unusual, and this may not be repeated for a LONG TIME!
0 likes   
Bill 2015 & Beta 2020

Winter 2020-2021 :cold:

All observations are in Tecumseh, OK unless otherwise noted.

Winter posts are focused mainly for Oklahoma & Texas.

Take any of my forecasts with a grain of salt, refer to the NWS, SPC, and NHC for official information

Never say Never with weather! Because ANYTHING is possible!

User avatar
Category5Kaiju
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4097
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1394 Postby Category5Kaiju » Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:21 am

Iceresistance wrote:
WeatherBoy2000 wrote:https://twitter.com/yconsor/status/1697122474104672693

https://twitter.com/DerekOrtt/status/1697183569196507502

It looks like things could remain busy for at least the first half of September with rising motion over Africa/Eatl and linger sinking over the Pacific. Hard to doubt it with the activity we've seen in the last 10 or so days along with peak climo.


Also in an El Nino year, this is extremely unusual, and this may not be repeated for a LONG TIME!


Well we do know for sure that this year almost certainly will be used as a reminder that if you combine a strong +AMO/warm sst anomalies with a moderate El Nino, then you could still get a decently active season.
1 likes   
Unless explicitly stated, all info in my posts is based on my own opinions and observations. Tropical storms and hurricanes can be extremely dangerous. Do not think you can beat Mother Nature. Refer to an accredited weather research agency or meteorologist if you need to make serious decisions regarding an approaching storm.

User avatar
WalterWhite
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:53 pm

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1395 Postby WalterWhite » Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:22 am

WalterWhite wrote:Part of me thinks 2023 could actually be surprisingly active for a +ENSO year given the -PDO signature that is expected to remain. Above-average sea surface temperatures are expected to remain across the Subtropical North Pacific, indicating a negative PDO. This negative PDO will create sinking air over the Pacific, leading to rising air in the Atlantic, favoring activity in the Atlantic.

PDO: https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/pub/data/cmb/ersst/v5/index/ersst.v5.pdo.dat
ENSO: https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/pub/data/cmb/ersst/v5/index/ersst.v5.el_nino.dat

Since 1995, the seasons with a positive ENSO but negative PDO during the peak (August to October) were 2002, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2012, 2018, and 2019; this averages to an ACE of 118 square hectoknots. For reference, since 1995, the seasons with both a positive ENSO and positive PDO during the peak were 1997, 2003, 2015, and 2015; this averages to an ACE of 87 square hectoknots, which is 31 square hectoknots lower than the +ENSO/-PDO average.


This was posted back in March, but I might have been onto something here.
2 likes   

User avatar
WalterWhite
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:53 pm

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1396 Postby WalterWhite » Thu Aug 31, 2023 11:44 am

GEFS and ECENS ensembles and the operational GFS generally show:

- Invest 94L developing into Tropical Storm Katia around September 3

- Another tropical wave coming from West Africa developing into Tropical Storm Lee around September 6, which could become a hurricane

- A subsequent tropical wave coming from West Africa developing into Tropical Storm Margot around September 9
1 likes   

User avatar
WalterWhite
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:53 pm

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1397 Postby WalterWhite » Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:44 pm

This season is currently at 11/3/2/49.6 as of today, August 31. No storms have formed as of today.

We can get a realistic minimum total storm count, total hurricane count, total major hurricane count, and total ACE estimates for the 2023 Atlantic Hurricane Season. The following are the seasonal statistics for every hurricane season from 2016 to 2022 starting from August 31:

2016: 7/3/3/106.9
2017: 8/5/3/194.6
2018: 10/6/2/115.7
2019: 13/4/2/111.9
2020: 17/10/6/137.4
2021: 10/3/2/101.1
2022: 11/8/2/91.8

Currently, the minimum that could be realistically expected for the rest of the season is 7 more storms (in line with 2016), 3 more hurricanes (in line with 2016 and 2021), 2 more major hurricanes (in line with 2018, 2019, 2021, and 2022), and 91.8 square hectoknots more ACE (in line with 2022). This gives a seasonal total of 18 storms, 6 hurricanes, 4 major hurricanes, and 141.4 square hectoknots of ACE, which would put this season in the above-average category.

The average totals for the seven most recent seasons from August 31 and beyond are 11 more storms, 6 more hurricanes, 3 more major hurricanes, and 122.8 more square hectoknots of ACE. This gives a seasonal total of 22 storms, 9 hurricanes, 5 major hurricanes, and 172.4 square hectoknots of ACE, which would put this season in the hyperactive category.

Using only the +ENSO years (i.e. 2018 and 2019), the average post-August 30 season totals are 11 more storms, 5 more hurricanes, 2 more major hurricanes, and 113.8 more square hectoknots of ACE. This gives a seasonal total of 22 storms, 8 hurricanes, 4 major hurricanes, and 162.8 square hectoknots of ACE, which would put this season barely in the hyperactive category.

Minimum expected season totals: 18 storms, 6 hurricanes, 4 major hurricanes, 141.4 ACE (above-average)
Average expected season totals: 22 storms, 9 hurricanes, 5 major hurricanes, 172.4 ACE (hyperactive)
Average expected season totals (only considering +ENSO years): 22 storms, 8 hurricanes, 4 major hurricanes, 162.8 ACE (hyperactive)

There is a realistic chance this could be the first hyperactive +ENSO season since 2004.
0 likes   


User avatar
Emmett_Brown
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1432
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:10 pm
Location: Sarasota FL

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1399 Postby Emmett_Brown » Thu Aug 31, 2023 4:49 pm

weeniepatrol wrote:Moderate, strengthening to Strong El Nino.

https://i.imgur.com/hz3AqYh.png

On todays' date, 30 August, we stand at 10/3/2

https://i.imgur.com/fzKxu7p.png

Current ACE to date is 136% of average.


Amazingly, we are only 3 named storms behind the pace of 2020
0 likes   

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145306
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2023 Indicators (SST, SAL, MSLP, Wind shear, Steering, Instability) and Day 16+ Models

#1400 Postby cycloneye » Thu Aug 31, 2023 5:13 pm

0 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here


Return to “Talkin' Tropics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Europa non è lontana, HurricaneBelle, KeysRedWine and 59 guests