APPEASEMENT?

[Rainband]

No shared information Steph. Something was seen by the FBI but was ignored by Clinton and the CIA. His sex life was important because um, he WAS the President of the United States.

Thats a cop out BUSH can't find Osama or Saddam..more of the blame game. Still waiting to see the PLAN to rebuild Iraq BTW didn't the FBI see something before 911 and it was ignored as well.......guess somethings never change

[Stephanie]

So, does that mean we need to investigate Bush's also? :-?

[Lindaloo]

That is what I was talking about John. The information that was not shared by the CIA to the FBI and vice versa. Clinton handcuffed both agencies. Not a cop out IMO either. At least Bush DID go after them.

What do ya mean investigate Bush's also Steph? That makes no sense. Bush went after those bunch of idiots while Clinton was playing with a cigar.

[j]

What do ya mean investigate Bush's also Steph? That makes no sense. Bush went after those bunch of idiots while Clinton was playing with a cigar.

cracking me up girl...there is never a shortage of jabs to go around when the name of Bill Clinton comes up.

I for one, will never look at a cigar the same way again.

[stormchazer]

Okay I must have missed that last turn into communists...

Someone care to elaborate? That felt like a sling at the democrats, but it was so far left field (forgive the pun) that I'm quite certain I must have just missed something.

It certainly was - name calling and put downs are always the last resort.

Which brings me to a question I had. If the Clinton presidency didn't do anything about terrorism, why didn't the Republican controlled Congress make waves about the potential. There are various committees out there that focus on security issues. Surely, someone would've seen something and brought it to the Capital for discussion? Or were they more worried about the President's sex life?

Those same commitees were in the hands of Democrats the 10 months leading up to 9/11. Remember Jeffords? Democrat Bob Graham (Head of Intelligence Committee before 9/11) didn't make any waves either then after was ripping Bush for not knowing.

I call Democrats communist, and your right, it is a strong word, because there agenda is about redistribution of money. Communist philosophy dictates suppose worker equality where everyone makes the same and lives at an equal standard of living. They controlled the money and were suppose to redistribute the wealth equally.

Sounds a lot like Welfare and taxes.

[Lindaloo]

Okay... this is for John and Steph.

All this happened under Clinton's reign.

-- The 1993 World Trade Center bombing that killed 6 and injured 1,000
-- The 1993 Mogadishu firefight that killed 18 U.S. soldiers
-- The 1995 Oklahoma City terrorist attack on the federal building by American extremists that killed 168, wounding several hundred others
-- The 1995 Saudi Arabia car bomb that killed 5 U.S. military personnel
-- The 1996 Khobal Towers bombing that killed 19 U.S. soldiers, wounding 515
-- The 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa that killed 231 citizens, 12 Americans and injured 5,000
-- The 2000 USS Cole attack in Yemen that killed 17 U.S. sailors, wounding 39

------------------------------------------------------------
So I ask you two who is the cop out? And why did it take 9/11 and thousands of deaths before we took action.

[stormchazer]

Okay... this is for John and Steph.

All this happened under Clinton's reign.

-- The 1993 World Trade Center bombing that killed 6 and injured 1,000
-- The 1993 Mogadishu firefight that killed 18 U.S. soldiers
-- The 1995 Oklahoma City terrorist attack on the federal building by American extremists that killed 168, wounding several hundred others
-- The 1995 Saudi Arabia car bomb that killed 5 U.S. military personnel
-- The 1996 Khobal Towers bombing that killed 19 U.S. soldiers, wounding 515
-- The 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa that killed 231 citizens, 12 Americans and injured 5,000
-- The 2000 USS Cole attack in Yemen that killed 17 U.S. sailors, wounding 39

------------------------------------------------------------
So I ask you two who is the cop out? And why did it take 9/11 and thousands of deaths before we took action.

Thank you very much!! Responses anyone?? :usa

[GalvestonDuck]

I must admit, I do recall being somewhat impressed by Clinton's speech he made after the bombing of the two embassies. I even commented to my grandfather that he actually came across as "Presidential" for once in his career. He was angered by what happened and seemed very resolute. But, unfortunately, it was all talk and no action.

Was there any warning about OKC and McVeigh?

[Lindaloo]

What is your point about the McVeigh warning? Still happened under Clintons reign. He also promised in each and every attack that those responsible would be hunted down and punished. Okay so when did he do that?

[j]

He had more important things to do Linda, like ordering ample supply of cigars and fabric and upholstery cleaner.

[opera ghost]

Okay... this is for John and Steph.

All this happened under Clinton's reign.

-- The 1993 World Trade Center bombing that killed 6 and injured 1,000
-- The 1993 Mogadishu firefight that killed 18 U.S. soldiers
-- The 1995 Oklahoma City terrorist attack on the federal building by American extremists that killed 168, wounding several hundred others
-- The 1995 Saudi Arabia car bomb that killed 5 U.S. military personnel
-- The 1996 Khobal Towers bombing that killed 19 U.S. soldiers, wounding 515
-- The 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa that killed 231 citizens, 12 Americans and injured 5,000
-- The 2000 USS Cole attack in Yemen that killed 17 U.S. sailors, wounding 39

------------------------------------------------------------
So I ask you two who is the cop out? And why did it take 9/11 and thousands of deaths before we took action.

Okay Guys. This is getting rabid, but I'm still in... But I feel like a violinist on the Titanic playing while the ship goes down.

Hindsight is 20/20. I've made some REALLY stupid mistakes in my life- some of which are still affecting me today. At the time they seemed perfectly reasonable, sane, and logical- the best course of action. That's the important thing to remember when you are comparing the past to the present

In the present we have 20/20 hindsight about the past AND everything we're doing right now seems perfectly sane, logical, and reasonable. That's because we're doing it right now. We can't see the future to discover that a splinter group of arabian extreamists formed in an Idaho college in early 2004, creating a potato nuke and using it to decimate Iowa and spread the black plague through a previously unknown security flaw that looking back we SHOULD have seen and could have prevented RIGHT NOW by minor actions.

Sure- looking back the US (not Clinton- the freaking president is NOT the be all and end all of everything that happens in this country- we have plenty of checks and balances to tame our leaders) made some stupid, or at least uninformed, mistakes. We could have taken care of splinter groups that were small then. We might even have been able to prevent 911 and any number of the hundreds of terrorist acts from the last 25 years. But the hard truth is- no matter how great the super power of America is- we are not clairvoyant.

I saw more of a reaction out of Clinton over the USS Cole than I saw from Bush over the latest deadly helicopter crash. He's like a puppet that we put on stage right now, thanking the god forsaken troops for thier lives and not acknowledging that those men and women DIED because of a war that HE has pushed. I pray every day that I won't get a sorrowful email sayign that a good friend of mine in the military is dead- that didn't end with he "war" the occupation has been more deadly than the war.

Clinton made mistakes. The Pope has made mistakes. Osama made mistakes. Sadam made mistakes. Bush has made mistakes. All gods chillen got mistakes . No matter how high up they are, how religious, how much of a public figure- people are HUMAN and humans make mistakes. It's on page one of the manual to life- you're going to screw it up at some point.. and you're probably going to pay royally for it.

But no matter what else happens- you can't change one single thing you do today when you learn how bad it was tomorrow. You can only move on and make the best of what life hands you.

Now I'm going to take my little communist arse and wander back over to a thread that makes me remember how wonderful it is to be alive.

[GalvestonDuck]

You included OKC in with the list of the other attacks, which I consider to be al-Qaeda related. McVeigh and Nichols were a separate problem. We've known for years that the Muslim extremists hate us. When I was younger, I thought all people with Arabic headdress were terrorists because those were the only ones I saw on the news stories about hijacked planes and bombings in the Gaza Strip.

I was just wondering if we had any warning about McVeigh? The FBI took care of Ruby Ridge and Waco. Why not McVeigh? My point is that perhaps (?) there was no warning about the potential threat from this particular individual.

I know what he promised. I didn't say he did anything about it.

But, unfortunately, it was all talk and no action.

I agree with you. I was just wondering about OKC.

[GalvestonDuck]

I saw more of a reaction out of Clinton over the USS Cole than I saw from Bush over the latest deadly helicopter crash.

Maybe that's the one I recall him getting so intense about, not the embassies.

[Lindaloo]

He may have reacted but he did not act over the USS Cole.

The mistakes that Clinton made were ALL fatal and comparing them to the Pope's mistakes is unjustified or to a single individuals mistake is too.

Bush said that this was going to be a tough war. He never said it was going to be easy.

[Rainband]

Okay I must have missed that last turn into communists...

Someone care to elaborate? That felt like a sling at the democrats, but it was so far left field (forgive the pun) that I'm quite certain I must have just missed something.

It certainly was - name calling and put downs are always the last resort.

Which brings me to a question I had. If the Clinton presidency didn't do anything about terrorism, why didn't the Republican controlled Congress make waves about the potential. There are various committees out there that focus on security issues. Surely, someone would've seen something and brought it to the Capital for discussion? Or were they more worried about the President's sex life?

Those same commitees were in the hands of Democrats the 10 months leading up to 9/11. Remember Jeffords? Democrat Bob Graham (Head of Intelligence Committee before 9/11) didn't make any waves either then after was ripping Bush for not knowing.

I call Democrats communist, and your right, it is a strong word, because there agenda is about redistribution of money. Communist philosophy dictates suppose worker equality where everyone makes the same and lives at an equal standard of living. They controlled the money and were suppose to redistribute the wealth equally.

Sounds a lot like Welfare and taxes.

Yep and The Republicans seem to wanna SPEND IT ALL on WAR!!!!! So I guess they both have their downfalls Taking care of your citizens with affordable healthcare and heres a thought still having SS when we are old enough to get it!!! Nah buy a few more nuclear bombs..Give me a break. Both of your parties have good ideas.If they would GROW UP and work together. Thats why I am glad I am independent..

[Rainband]

He may have reacted but he did not act over the USS Cole.

The mistakes that Clinton made were ALL fatal and comparing them to the Pope's mistakes is unjustified or to a single individuals mistake is too.

Bush said that this was going to be a tough war. He never said it was going to be easy.

The BLAME game makes your party look worse and worse in my eyes Work together..theres a thought

[opera ghost]

He may have reacted but he did not act over the USS Cole.

The mistakes that Clinton made were ALL fatal and comparing them to the Pope's mistakes is unjustified or to a single individuals mistake is too.

Bush said that this was going to be a tough war. He never said it was going to be easy.

My post was working on a point- and I really think you missed it- which is a shame because it's so much easier (and less prone to judgement) to talk to someone who catches the origional point rather than specific phrases used to illustrate the point.

Bush isn't the dude in charge guys. Clinton wasn't in charge either. They have (about) a 1/3rd say in what goes on and they're checked and balanced by the other systems of the american government. They're the EASIEST to blame and praise because they are an individual on a pedistal- but it's not fair or true to pin all the actions of the US during the reign of a president solely on his shoulders. These men aren't gods- they're not nobility. They have red blood and are required to breathe the same polluted air that we are to survive. That even goes for the Pope- he wasn't born a saint and not all popes have been cannonized as saints. These people are real human beings just like you and I who are responsible for an astounding amount of information to guide thier choices- information that is given to them by other perfectly failable humans. They're required to make hard decisions and sometimes the paths that they choose are checked or balanced by the rest of the govenment.

And using the word "ALL" is a bit excessive- especially with the attention drawn to it. Does that include the mistakes he made as a kid? No, but it sure SOUNDS ritious and worthy of burning at the stake.

I'll repeat- Clinton made mistakes. The Pope makes mistakes. The Dali Lama makes mistakes. Linda makes mistakes, Bekah (Opera) makes mistakes. EVERYONE makes mistakes. EVERYONE makes mistakes that seemed like the right thing to do at the time- with the support of the people that mattered in the decisions.

Who sees with equal eye, as God of all,
A hero perish, or a sparrow fall,
Atoms or systems into ruin hurl'd,
And now a bubble burst, and now a world.
-Pope.

It doesn't matter how little or big you are in the end guys. Mistakes are mistakes- deaths are deaths and the world keeps turning forever. Move on.

[Rainband]

Great point Opera Ghost. Great Point. The president is basically a pawn in the political chess match.

[Lindaloo]

Sorry Rainband, I am not affilliated with either party. I am a registered Independant. I believe in the best man for office though I tend to sway to the Republican side. Perfect example, I did not vote for Republican Haley Barbour for Governor in my state. I voted for Democrat Ronnie Musgrove. So with that being said, really blows your theory of party affilliation out the window.

We would have spent the money in the Clinton era too if he had actually done anything about the tragedies above. How does that look to ya?

And OG, I am not an idiot. Got your point completely even as ludicrous as it sounds.

[Rainband]

Sorry Rainband, I am not affilliated with either party. I am a registered Independant. I believe in the best man for office though I tend to sway to the Republican side. Perfect example, I did not vote for Republican Haley Barbour for Governor in my state. I voted for Democrat Ronnie Musgrove. So with that being said, really blows your theory of party affilliation out the window.

We would have spent the money in the Clinton era too if he had actually done anything about the tragedies above. How does that look to ya?

It's not so much the money..I understand about the Homeland security.. 87Billion for what show me for what!!!! WE have no plan..show me a Plan for rebuilding Iraq???I just want to see where the money is going