APPEASEMENT?

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Stephanie
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#41 Postby Stephanie » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:46 am

Derek Ortt wrote:The UN is the most illegetimate organization in the entire world. All they want to do is turn us into a backwards banana republic. While I do not like Bush, I am quite glad that he stood up the UN. However, I wish he had also told the UN to pay their billions in parking tickets or get the you know what out of this country. They are the most hypocritical people in the world as they refuse to follow our laws, but insist on us follow every single edict that they spew from their rear ends


Perhaps we can wash what the USA owes the UN with what they owe us in parking tickets.

j - do you think that there's not another plan for attacking the US underway now? We still haven't caught the two that our government said that were responsible for the attacks to begin with. One of them has admitted to it (Osama) and has plans to strike again.
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#42 Postby GalvestonDuck » Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:29 pm

GalvestonDuck wrote:So, why aren't we doing our duty by protecting the exiled government of Tibet and stopping the systematic violations of the Torture Convention by China? If we go after Saddam because of how he tortured and killed Kurds, why do we ignore what's going on elsewhere?


stormchazer wrote:Same reason we did not invade the USSR. But that didn't mean we did not try to beat them diplomatically. We beat them with our economy. Sadam's case called for different measures.


Don't get me wrong. I'm all for kicking Saddam's rearside into the earth's core. I just don't see us doing anything to "protect" Tibetans from the torture being laid upon them by the Chinese -- either diplomatically or militarily.
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#43 Postby ameriwx2003 » Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:49 pm

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 ,Nothing!!!!!!!. Even the Bush admin. has admitted as much. I just wonder how getting off track invading Iraq has hurt our effort on the war on terror. Iran has more proven ties to funding terror and there is proof that safe haven is being given to Al queda terrorists yet we choose to attack Iraq.. Oh well.. like I said we must now finish the job we started and give our troops whatever is needed to win what we have started ..
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#44 Postby stormchazer » Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:50 pm

GalvestonDuck wrote:
GalvestonDuck wrote:So, why aren't we doing our duty by protecting the exiled government of Tibet and stopping the systematic violations of the Torture Convention by China? If we go after Saddam because of how he tortured and killed Kurds, why do we ignore what's going on elsewhere?


stormchazer wrote:Same reason we did not invade the USSR. But that didn't mean we did not try to beat them diplomatically. We beat them with our economy. Sadam's case called for different measures.


Don't get me wrong. I'm all for kicking Saddam's rearside into the earth's core. I just don't see us doing anything to "protect" Tibetans from the torture being laid upon them by the Chinese -- either diplomatically or militarily.


There have been long-standing technology and military restrictions on China with the Tibet situation as one of the reason cited. Once China went to more of an open economy, we saw the oppurtunity to turn that against them politically because injecting our goods also means injecting the American idea of working to achieve what you want and the American lifestyle. This is the reason East Germans braved barb-wire and machineguns to get to the west. They saw our lifestyle and wanted the same. We are trying to do a similar thing in China.
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#45 Postby GalvestonDuck » Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:52 pm

We've been dealing with the Iraq situation LONG before 9/11. Twelve UN resolutions later, we're still trying to finish what was started.
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#46 Postby Rainband » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:01 pm

mf_dolphin wrote:The whole free world was not against the war against Iraq. If you're going to make a point at least be accurate...... The last time I looked the US, Japan, Australia and several other members of the coalition were part of the free world....
It was a generalization..Marshall I think you know me by now..I am no dummy :lol: :lol: . I know who our partners are in the Iraq Invasion :wink:
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#47 Postby Lindaloo » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:05 pm

ameriwx2003 wrote:Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 ,Nothing!!!!!!!. Even the Bush admin. has admitted as much. I just wonder how getting off track invading Iraq has hurt our effort on the war on terror. Iran has more proven ties to funding terror and there is proof that safe haven is being given to Al queda terrorists yet we choose to attack Iraq.. Oh well.. like I said we must now finish the job we started and give our troops whatever is needed to win what we have started ..


When did they admit that?!! Why is it that German Intelligence has one of the hijackers of 9/11 on survellience meeting with Iraqi officials in 2000? Hmmmm... German Intelligence shared this info with the United States AFTER 9/11.
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#48 Postby ameriwx2003 » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:21 pm


When did they admit that?!! Why is it that German Intelligence has one of the hijackers of 9/11 on survellience meeting with Iraqi officials in 2000? Hmmmm... German Intelligence shared this info with the United States AFTER 9/11


Here you go!!!. Like the article says Bush had implied that Iraq had a role in 9/11 but now admits we have no proof they played a role.. Like I said before, we need to take the fight to terrorists.. I just don't think Iraq was the logical next choice but that point is mute now since we did take that step. We do need to finish what we started in Iraq .lets get a clear plan and lets finish what we started.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/Main.asp ... leID=89337

Mike
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#49 Postby Stephanie » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:24 pm

Thanks for the link Mike!
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#50 Postby Rainband » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:29 pm

Where is our plan to Rebuild iraq??? IMHO this war, under the guise of "The War on Terror" and 911, Is about (1) Revenge and making daddy proud and (2) MONEY. I bet if we all did a little digging we'd find alot of people getting fat off the cash cow..If you know what I mean. Don't get me wrong I support our troops and wish them God speed. They go where they are told. If you remember I used to support The war In Iraq and I liked Bush..but enough time has passed for me to see 1+1=2 BUT in this situation 1+1=3. In other words things don't add up. I refuse to follow the majority or the Minority for that matter. Two things I have in this world that can never be taken away. My word and my opinion..If I ever offer either of them to you..take them to heart :wink: Now you see why I hate politics. Like I said before..your all still my friends :)
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#51 Postby ameriwx2003 » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:34 pm

Rainband.. well said.!!!:):):0.. I agree, I will always consider everyone here my friend .Talking politics is always a touchy situation but like rainband I said I consider you all my friends whether we agree on issues or not:):):)
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#52 Postby Rainband » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:37 pm

ameriwx2003 wrote:Rainband.. well said.!!!:):):0.. I agree, I will always consider everyone here my friend .Talking politics is always a touchy situation but like rainband I said I consider you all my friends whether we agree on issues or not:):):)
Thanks Mike. I just want people to know my opinion..although it may not be right in their eyes :wink: I am still the same old Rainband :P
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rainstorm

#53 Postby rainstorm » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:43 pm

Rainband wrote:Where is our plan to Rebuild iraq??? IMHO this war, under the guise of "The War on Terror" and 911, Is about (1) Revenge and making daddy proud and (2) MONEY. I bet if we all did a little digging we'd find alot of people getting fat off the cash cow..If you know what I mean. Don't get me wrong I support our troops and wish them God speed. They go where they are told. If you remember I used to support The war In Iraq and I liked Bush..but enough time has passed for me to see 1+1=2 BUT in this situation 1+1=3. In other words things don't add up. I refuse to follow the majority or the Minority for that matter. Two things I have in this world that can never be taken away. My word and my opinion..If I ever offer either of them to you..take them to heart :wink: Now you see why I hate politics. Like I said before..your all still my friends :)


utterly ridiculous
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#54 Postby Guest » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:45 pm

Good, I'm glad everyone is still friends. :wink: Things were getting a little heated in here.

I'll just add this to the convo:

I'd rather take them on in Iraq and Afghanistan then take them on in downtown New York. My cousin and two uncles serving in Iraq believe that too


I couldn't agree more StormChaser!

God Bless Our Troops.
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#55 Postby GalvestonDuck » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:49 pm

rainstorm wrote:utterly ridiculous


Are you calling Johnathan ridiculous or a specific comment that he made? Care to elaborate so it doesn't look so much like an attack? I'd appreciate it.
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rainstorm

saddam and his buddies, from the washington post

#56 Postby rainstorm » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:59 pm

Saddam was sure of his own survival




By Steve Coll
THE WASHINGTON POST

BAGHDAD, Nov. 2 — Saddam Hussein refused to order a counterattack against U.S. troops when war erupted in March because he misjudged the initial ground thrust as a ruse and had been convinced earlier by Russian and French contacts that he could avoid or survive a land invasion, former Iraqi deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz has told interrogators, according to U.S. officials.
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#57 Postby Rainband » Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:06 pm

GalvestonDuck wrote:
rainstorm wrote:utterly ridiculous


Are you calling Johnathan ridiculous or a specific comment that he made? Care to elaborate so it doesn't look so much like an attack? I'd appreciate it.
It is an attack but consider the source :wink:
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#58 Postby ameriwx2003 » Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:06 pm

Well.. i have made my point about Iraq:)::) I agree 100% that we should take them on in Afghanistan and we need to take the fight to them hard there. Hard to believe that at one time Bin laden was fighting for a cause we supported, evicting the Red Army from Afghanistan.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

Mike
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rainstorm

dems giving aid and comfort to our enemies?

#59 Postby rainstorm » Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:19 pm

Dem Intel Committee Memo Reveals Anti-Bush Plot

A memo circulated among Democrats on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence shows the committee's minority plotting to use classified information against the White House in next year's presidential campaign.

The document, obtained and disclosed by nationally syndicated radio host Sean Hannity Tuesday afternoon, suggests that the top priority among senior Democrats entrusted with guarding the nation's security is instead driving the Bush administration from power based on claims it exaggerated intelligence on the threat posed by Iraq.

The memo as reported by Hannity reads as follows:

"We have carefully reviewed our options under the rules and believe we have identified the best approach. Our plan is as follows:

"1) Pull the majority along as far as we can on issues that may lead to major new disclosures regarding improper or questionable conduct by administration officials. We are having some success in that regard.

"For example, in addition to the President's State of the Union speech, the chairman [Sen. Pat Roberts] has agreed to look at the activities of the office of the Secretary of Defense, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, as well as Secretary Bolton's office at the State Department.

"The fact that the chairman supports our investigations into these offices and cosigns our requests for information is helpful and potentially crucial. We don't know what we will find but our prospects for getting the access we seek is far greater when we have the backing of the majority. [We can verbally mention some of the intriguing leads we are pursuing.]

"2) Assiduously prepare Democratic 'additional views' to attach to any interim or final reports the committee may release. Committee rules provide this opportunity and we intend to take full advantage of it.

"In that regard we may have already compiled all the public statements on Iraq made by senior administration officials. We will identify the most exaggerated claims. We will contrast them with the intelligence estimates that have since been declassified. Our additional views will also, among other things, castigate the majority for seeking to limit the scope of the inquiry.

"The Democrats will then be in a strong position to reopen the question of establishing an Independent Commission [i.e., the Corzine Amendment.]

"3) Prepare to launch an independent investigation when it becomes clear we have exhausted the opportunity to usefully collaborate with the majority. We can pull the trigger on an independent investigation of the administration's use of intelligence at any time. But we can only do so once.

"The best time to do so will probably be next year, either:

"A) After we have already released our additional views on an interim report, thereby providing as many as three opportunities to make our case to the public. Additional views on the interim report (1). The announcement of our independent investigation (2). And (3) additional views on the final investigation. Or:

"B) Once we identify solid leads the majority does not want to pursue, we would attract more coverage and have greater credibility in that context than one in which we simply launch an independent investigation based on principled but vague notions regarding the use of intelligence.

"In the meantime, even without a specifically authorized independent investigation, we continue to act independently when we encounter footdragging on the part of the majority. For example, the FBI Niger investigation was done solely at the request of the vice chairman. We have independently submitted written requests to the DOD and we are preparing further independent requests for information.



why do the dems want us to lose? are they traitors, or just power hungry?
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Rainband

#60 Postby Rainband » Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:20 pm

Helen If my opinion doesn't make sense ... why does my opinion bother you so much??? Just curious :)
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