Season Cancel!

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NDG
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Re: Re:

#81 Postby NDG » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:45 am

KWT wrote:
ConvergenceZone wrote:
Yea, most of the models seems to be turning away from development anytime soon... This doesn't suppose to happen. Starting in Mid August is when the lid suppose to blow off, but aside from a couple of depressions/storms, we've yet to see that happen.


Well really you could argue we are still active right now, we've just had 2NS in the space of about 3-4 days, thats pretty rapid ratwe of development...quality has been low with nearly all these storms but we are on *7* storms, we've had more storms then a fair amount of El nino seasons in the past!

There is something up with thisn season thats for sure and conditions are only marginal further south in the MDR for development, further north it seems much more condusive...classic El nino type pattern.

Somewhat odd year, but who knows Gert may become a hurricane anyway yet!


I have been seeing you post for a while comparing this season to an El Nino type season, but IMO, this is not an El Nino type pattern and a good place to look at is in the Caribbean, which overall shear has been below average, indicative of a continuing La Nina pattern.
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Also look how above average conditions have been for tropical development, but I got a feeling that this is not taking dry conditions into consideration.

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What is wrong with this season is too much dry air & subsidence across the MDR, probably a lot to do with the heat across the mid latitudes into the continental US, as indicated below instability is running well below average across the MDR, Caribbean and GOM.

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Interesting that where we have seen the most action so far has been in an area of the western Atlantic off of the eastern US which has not had the best UL conditions as indicated by the graphics, but whenever a trough approaches it has created a little bit of UL divergence, pushing the subsidence out of the way.

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Another thing to look at is at average MSLP across the MDR, which shows that it has been well below average, not typical for an El Nino pattern.

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#82 Postby KWT » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:10 am

NDG, it was more to do with the formation and how all the systems south of 25N have struggled to get going, thats what I meant with regards to it being like an El nino season, nothing more, nothing less 8-)

The cutoff lows that form into TC's is a pretty classic way to develop a system in an El Nino year, thats what I mean when I was talking about how its been like a hyper up El nino season.

Conditions ARE like a low end La nina but there has been enough SAL and mid level dry air from Africa thus far in the MDR and indeed to be fair in the Caribbean as well to keep everything in check thus far...The synoptics aloft are classic La Nina and the lower pressures as you say are pretty suggestive of La Nina.

Once the SAL calms down (its been worse then normal thus far IMO) I'd expect some of the types of systems that have been struggling to get going abit more, I'd be surprised if we don't have a major hurricane by the 5-10th September.

Plenty of time for things to blow up...given we are at 7NS now, 16-20NS seems a good call. I think the basin is ripe for an explosion of activity like we saw last year, maybe not quite as strong but I'm betting that by the end of September all worries will be gone.

ps, I think 2010 would have had 21-23NS IF the La Nina was weaker in the first half of the season and strengthened through the Autumn, that La Nina kept us around average till the classic La nina kick in began around the 20th August. I know it was still super active, but conditions that year were probably *better* then even in 2005....
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#83 Postby NDG » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:54 am

KWT, thanks for clarifying.
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Re: Season Cancel!

#84 Postby beoumont » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:07 am

The classic slow start, strong finish year was 1961. Before Sept. 1 there was one named storm. On Sept 12, there were 5 storms on the map. The year yielded two cat 5s, two cat 4s, and three cat 3s.



# Name Date Wind Pres Cat
1 Hurricane ANNA 20-24 JUL 100 976 3
2 Hurricane BETSY 2-12 SEP 120 945 4
3 Hurricane CARLA 3-16 SEP 150 931 5
4 Hurricane DEBBIE 6-16 SEP 105 970 3
5 Hurricane ESTHER 10-27 SEP 125 927 4
6 Tropical Storm #6 12-15 SEP 35 - - 1
7 Hurricane FRANCES 30 SEP-10 OCT 110 948 3
8 Tropical Storm GERDA 16-22 OCT 60 987 -
9 Hurricane HATTIE 27 OCT- 1 NOV 140 920 5
10 Hurricane JENNY 1- 9 NOV 70 974 1
11 Tropical Storm INGA 5- 8 NOV 60 992 -
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List of 79 tropical cyclones intercepted by Richard Horodner:
http://www.canebeard.com/page/page/572246.htm

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Re: Re:

#85 Postby Ptarmigan » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:46 pm

NDG wrote:What is wrong with this season is too much dry air & subsidence across the MDR, probably a lot to do with the heat across the mid latitudes into the continental US, as indicated below instability is running well below average across the MDR, Caribbean and GOM.


I remember reading that too with the reason why 2010 Season was in a lull for all the Northern Hemisphere Basins, which was during the Russian Heat Wave and Pakistani Flood. All the energy were in that area. :lol:
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Re: Season Cancel!

#86 Postby Ptarmigan » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:53 pm

beoumont wrote:The classic slow start, strong finish year was 1961. Before Sept. 1 there was one named storm. On Sept 12, there were 5 storms on the map. The year yielded two cat 5s, two cat 4s, and three cat 3s.



# Name Date Wind Pres Cat
1 Hurricane ANNA 20-24 JUL 100 976 3
2 Hurricane BETSY 2-12 SEP 120 945 4
3 Hurricane CARLA 3-16 SEP 150 931 5
4 Hurricane DEBBIE 6-16 SEP 105 970 3
5 Hurricane ESTHER 10-27 SEP 125 927 4
6 Tropical Storm #6 12-15 SEP 35 - - 1
7 Hurricane FRANCES 30 SEP-10 OCT 110 948 3
8 Tropical Storm GERDA 16-22 OCT 60 987 -
9 Hurricane HATTIE 27 OCT- 1 NOV 140 920 5
10 Hurricane JENNY 1- 9 NOV 70 974 1
11 Tropical Storm INGA 5- 8 NOV 60 992 -


Late starters can be some of the worst seasons on record like 1961, 1998, and 2004.
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Re: Season Cancel!

#87 Postby Hurricaneman » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:54 pm

I think the next week or 2 this thread will become unbusy, because the hurricanes will come
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Re: Season Cancel!

#88 Postby Texas Snowman » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:44 pm

Hurricaneman wrote:I think the next week or 2 this thread will become unbusy, because the hurricanes will come


Joe Bastardi thinks so.

A sample of his Tweets today:

* Hurricane Frenzy may develop Aug 25-Sep 5. MJO shuts Sw pac, and leaves atlantic to carry load:
* Reminds of set up of burst in 2008 that lead to several landfalls in a row. coming right at the height of the season
* 4 of the 7 tropical storms so far are not of tropical origin but now the cap is about to come off and we will see the real deal come to life
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Re: Season Cancel!

#89 Postby MGC » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:08 pm

Thing is this has been an above normal season to date with reguards to named systems. I expect the next 7-8 weeks to be very active with perhaps a system per week getting named. Still thinking we will end the season with 15 or so named systems. The hurricanes will come. I just hope they stay at sea.....MGC
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Re: Season Cancel!

#90 Postby CYCLONE MIKE » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:08 pm

Have been seeing or reading "the cap is about to come off" since the first of August and day after day nothing. I guess maybe just like the models if it keeps getting mentioned week after week, it might eventually happen. :roll: Must admit was somewhat concerned of a bad season due to all the early sesason hype. Now we are in the the middle of August and still nothing but a few weak storms in the middle of the atlantic. The models have been doing horrible for the most part, we have our neighbor the heat-death ridge that has moved in down the street from me in the deep south, east coast trough, and dry/stable air everywhere. In the not to distant future the first fall cold fronts will start making their presence felt. Sure we could get 8-9 more weak storms that go out to sea to make numbers look good, but starting to get the feeling that as far as landfalls go, especially majors, things might not be as bad afterall from earlier predictions. Doesn't help that models really aren't showing anything coming down the pike in the next 7-10 days either. But even if they did more than likely wouldn't amount to much, look at 93L. Should be a strong cane now from what long range were shwoing last week. :lol:
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#91 Postby Tireman4 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:27 pm

We (Houston-Galveston) know about her....the stories....


3 Hurricane CARLA 3-16 SEP 150 931 5
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Re: Season Cancel!

#92 Postby TYNI » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:41 pm

CYCLONE MIKE wrote:Have been seeing or reading "the cap is about to come off" since the first of August and day after day nothing. I guess maybe just like the models if it keeps getting mentioned week after week, it might eventually happen. :roll: Must admit was somewhat concerned of a bad season due to all the early sesason hype. Now we are in the the middle of August and still nothing but a few weak storms in the middle of the atlantic. The models have been doing horrible for the most part, we have our neighbor the heat-death ridge that has moved in down the street from me in the deep south, east coast trough, and dry/stable air everywhere. In the not to distant future the first fall cold fronts will start making their presence felt. Sure we could get 8-9 more weak storms that go out to sea to make numbers look good, but starting to get the feeling that as far as landfalls go, especially majors, things might not be as bad afterall from earlier predictions. Doesn't help that models really aren't showing anything coming down the pike in the next 7-10 days either. But even if they did more than likely wouldn't amount to much, look at 93L. Should be a strong cane now from what long range were shwoing last week. :lol:



Look here for the next 7 to 10 days viewtopic.php?f=31&t=111482&st=0&sk=t&sd=a The models are onto something, multiple runs in a row. Regardless of model performance to date, I'd rather have something to keep an eye on than not knowing anything is coming at all. I agree, though, there have been a few cases of crying "wolf". It's like this every year, and we are all greedy buggers, wanting to track something! :D

I don't think it's season cancel. I think it's time to get the preparedness kits out. :eek:
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dwsqos2

Re: Season Cancel!

#93 Postby dwsqos2 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:51 pm

The 12Z Euro depresses me.
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Re: Season Cancel!

#94 Postby Scorpion » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:58 pm

dwsqos2 wrote:The 12Z Euro depresses me.


Seriously, I am just sick and tired of this. I get excited enough to eagerly anticipate run after run of the GFS showing the same strong system and now the Euro just loses it, right on schedule. Can't take it anymore.
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Re: Season Cancel!

#95 Postby KWT » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:07 pm

dwsqos2 wrote:The 12Z Euro depresses me.


Well at least it does give some eye candy towards the end...no doubt a nice fishy to watch if that came off :P

Still guys, think we need a bit of a chill pill...we are on SEVEN named storms half way through August, there has been some seasons with that amount of systems at the END of the season and not much better quality either.

Some folks have been a little spoiled by the glut of very impressive seasons from 1995 onwards...
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Re: Season Cancel!

#96 Postby Florida1118 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:50 pm

KWT wrote:
dwsqos2 wrote:The 12Z Euro depresses me.


Well at least it does give some eye candy towards the end...no doubt a nice fishy to watch if that came off :P

Still guys, think we need a bit of a chill pill...we are on SEVEN named storms half way through August, there has been some seasons with that amount of systems at the END of the season and not much better quality either.

Some folks have been a little spoiled by the glut of very impressive seasons from 1995 onwards...

I agree. We still have alot of August, Sept, October, and November to go. Im SURE people will be eating their words on the "Wah we havent had a cane waaah" on the freaking 16th of August. I mean what are you expecting, its not going to be a hurricane after hurricane onslaught every season...
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#97 Postby Jinkers » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:37 pm

Ok, all these named storms, and no hurricanes, bring on 2012... :ggreen:
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Re: Season Cancel!

#98 Postby TYNI » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:34 pm

Is that the sound of crickets I hear???
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dwsqos2

Re: Season Cancel!

#99 Postby dwsqos2 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:16 am

This isn't really a season cancel post, but more of a season frustrating post. Yeah, the streak of tropical storms seems likely to continue with Harvey.
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#100 Postby SEASON_CANCELED » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:29 am

spoke too soon
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