Honduran Crisis : Porfirio Lobo wins the presidency

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Derek Ortt

#21 Postby Derek Ortt » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:04 pm

the OAS is now as relevant as the UN. Any country siding with the deposed Honduran wannabee dictator has significant issues within their governments. I had better shut up now or else I will get into the political realm
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Re: 2009 Honduran coup d'etat : Court defiant on Zelaya

#22 Postby HURAKAN » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:59 pm

Zelaya vows to return to Honduras

Ousted President Manuel Zelaya has vowed to return to Honduras on Sunday, despite being threatened with arrest.

In a speech on the regional TV channel, Telesur, Mr Zelaya said he would arrive along with several other presidents.

Mr Zelaya, who was forced out by the military on Sunday, criticised the leaders of the interim government and described them as traitors.

The Organization of American States is holding an extraordinary session and is expected to vote to suspend Honduras.

'Judases'

"I am organising my return to Honduras... This is the return of the president elected by the sovereign will of the people," he said, calling on his followers to join him "without arms" on his arrival in the capital Tegucigalpa.

Already, thousands of his supporters are heading for the capital's airport, the BBC's Stephen Gibbs reports from Tegucigalpa.

In the taped recording that was sent to Telesur, Mr Zelaya warned the new administration of interim leader Roberto Micheletti that the international community had turned against them.

"I address you, the coup leaders, traitors, 'Judases' who kissed me on the cheek only to afterwards give a great blow to our country and our democracy... Your actions will not go unnoticed because the international courts will have to try you for the genocide that you are carrying out in our country, in suppressing rights and repressing our people."

The Honduran interim government says it acted within the law and has the backing of the majority of the population.

Emergency session

Earlier, the leader of the Roman Catholic church in Honduras called on the ousted president not to return from exile, in order to avoid provoking what he called a "bloodbath".

Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez said nobody had been killed since Mr Zelaya lost power, and he appealed to him to check his actions, before it was too late.

The presidents of Ecuador and Argentina, Rafael Corea and Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, have said they would accompany Mr Zelaya when he returns to Honduras on Sunday.

The Honduran government says that arrest warrants have been despatched to all frontiers.

The country is becoming increasingly polarised, our correspondent says.

Each day there are mass demonstrations, both in support and against the government.

Mr Zelaya, whose enemies accuse him of seeking to prolong his rule by altering the Honduran constitution, has garnered comprehensive international support.

The Organisation of American States is meeting in emergency session to debate whether to impose sanctions against Honduras.

The group is also likely to suspend Honduras, after the caretaker government refused to restore President Zelaya.

The interim rulers have renounced the OAS charter in an apparent pre-emptive move, but an OAS official said the renunciation was not valid, since the Honduras authorities were not a legitimate government.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/a ... 134699.stm
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#23 Postby Derek Ortt » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:08 am

what in the world is wrong with OAS? How dumb are they?
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Re: 2009 Honduran coup d'etat : Zelaya vows to return tomorrow

#24 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:10 am

Zelaya better hope the Army doesn't give him a 21 gun salute...
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Re: 2009 Honduran coup d'etat : Zelaya vows to return tomorrow

#25 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:54 pm

Zelaya's plane turned away, rumors of Nicaraguan troops massing near the border...



While nobody was looking, Daniel Ortega-Saavedra took power again with the Sandinistas through the ballot box, and during the 2008 local/mid term elections, made it clear they won't lose power through the ballot box.

Honduras has a Marxist neighbor, and Nicaragua is probably being supplied by Hugo and Los Hermanos Castro, so an invasion to re-install a communist seeking to be President for Life sounds entirely possible.
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Re: 2009 Honduran coup d'etat : Zelaya vows to return tomorrow

#26 Postby HURAKAN » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:17 pm

Zelaya's Plane Redirected to El Salvador

By JOSE DE CORDOBA
[The Organization of American States meets in emergency session, in Washington, to consider suspending Honduras' membership because of the coup that ousted Honduran president Manuel Zelaya.] Associated Press

The Organization of American States meets in emergency session, in Washington, to consider suspending Honduras' membership because of the coup that ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya.

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras—In a high-stakes move to reclaim his post, ousted Honduran president Manuel Zelaya tried to fly to this Central American nation on Sunday. The provisional government said it would turn the aircraft away, even as it signaled a new willingness to negotiate a solution to the region's biggest political crisis in years.

Honduras' civil aviation director said Mr. Zelaya's plane was being redirected to El Salvador.
Journal Community

* Discuss: Was it really a coup?

Mr. Zelaya, a leftist kicked out by Honduras' army last week in his nightshirt, departed from Washington to Tegucigalpa on an aircraft believed to belong to Venezuela's government. He was accompanies by the U.N. General Assembly president, Miguel D'Escoto. Also along for the ride was Argentine President Cristina Kirchner in her official plane and another plane carrying journalists.

"The blood of Christ sustains me," Mr. Zelaya said in a brief interview aboard the plane with Venezuela's state-run TV network Telesur.

For the first time since the crisis broke a week ago, Honduras' provisional government signaled it would be willing to negotiate a solution to the crisis, which took a dramatic turn last Sunday when soldiers forced Mr. Zelaya to leave the country after he insisted on holding a referendum that critics said was aimed at him staying in power.

"We are waiting with open arms for any commission that wants to come," said Deputy Foreign Minister Marta Lorena de Castro. "The Republic of Honduras has told the OAS it is disposed to designate a commission to negotiate in good faith."

The move by Honduras' provisional government to talk came a day after the OAS voted to suspend the country from the multilateral body, which has 34 active members. Earlier, Honduras' provisional government said it would rather be kicked out of the OAS than allow Mr. Zelaya to return to the presidential seat.

In a sign of how the crisis is causing regional tensions to flare, Honduras said Nicaragua's army were carrying out small-scale troops movements near the border between both nations, which were bitter Cold War enemies during the 1980s Sandinista government in Nicaragua. Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega is back in power in Managua.

Honduras' interim president Roberto Micheletti said the troop movements were "small" and "nothing to worry about," but warned Nicaragua to back off and said Honduras would be watching events closely.

Mr. Zelaya, the son of a wealthy farmer who ran for office as a centrist, polarized the country when his politics took a left turn and he aligned his government closely with Mr. Chávez. Honduras joined Mr. Chávez's trade pact, received cut-rate oil from Venezuela, and embarked on an attempt to rewrite the constitution that critics say would have let Mr. Zelaya extend his term.

To that end, Mr. Zelaya wanted to hold a referendum on whether voters wanted to change the constitution. The vote was declared illegal by Honduras' Supreme Court, but the president vowed to press on. Last Sunday, the day the referendum was set to take place, soldiers stormed the presidential residence and seized the leader at gunpoint. Congress later swore in Mr. Micheletti, the president of Congress.

The country's acting leaders have said repeatedly they would arrest Mr. Zelaya if he managed to return. In the days after he was sent packing to Costa Rica by Honduras' military, the provisional government has accused Mr. Zelaya of multiple crimes, from treason to drug trafficking. The AP on Sunday said the interim government had ordered the military to prevent Mr. Zelaya's plane or any unidentified one from landing.

If Mr. Zelaya manages to return somehow, the chances of a violent confrontation appear high. Responding to a call by the ousted president, thousands of his supporters turned up at the Tegucigalpa airport to show their support. But an equal number of Hondurans are adamant they don't want the president to return.

Honduras' influential Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez, the highest ranking Catholic Church official in the country, went on national television to urge the exiled president not to come back. "We think that a return to the country at this time could unleash a bloodbath in the country," Cardinal Rodriguez said. "To this day, no Honduran has died. Please meditate because afterwards it would be too late."

The prelate also criticized Mr. Zelaya, suggesting the Church was throwing its weight behind the provisional government. "The day of your swearing in, you clearly quoted the three commandments of the sacred law of God: Not to lie, not to steal, and not to kill," said the Cardinal, who was seen as a leading candidate to succeed the late Pope John Paul II.

Write to Jose de Cordoba at jose.decordoba@wsj.com
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Re: Honduran Crisis : Zelaya's plane turned to El Salvador

#27 Postby HURAKAN » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:22 pm

Nicaragua denies troops headed toward Honduras

By John Shovelan in Washington, wires

Posted 47 minutes ago
Updated 23 minutes ago

Nicaragua has denied moving its troops toward the border with Honduras, as claimed by interim Honduran leader Robert Micheletti ahead of the expected return of ousted President Manuel Zelaya.

"These reports are totally false ... I have no information on why (Mr Micheletti) made those statements," said Nicaraguan military spokesman Brigadier General Adolfo Zepeda.

Mr Micheletti had earlier told a televised news conference that "in the sector of Nicaragua, some troops are moving toward the border."

But General Zepeda retorted that "the army has clear instructions not to interfere in Honduras."

Meanwhile, ousted President Manuel Zelaya is flying back to Honduras despite a military order to stop his plane from landing.

He left Washington DC on a small Venezualan jet this morning.

Mr Zelaya is hoping to land in the Honduras capital Tegucigalpa, but the Honduran military say they will prevent it.

If he lands, the military-backed government says he will be arrested for treason and other alleged crimes.

Thousands of Zelaya supporters have converged on the airport in the hope they can force the government to let him return.

Mr Zelaya was deposed last week in a military coup and forced to leave the country.

Catholic archbishop Oscar Rodriguez asked Mr Zelaya to stay away because he said if he returns, it could "provoke a blood bath."

Mr Zelaya is a left-wing ally of Mr Ortega and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

The interim government said it had contacted the Organisation of American States to express its willingness to enter dialogue.

The OAS earlier on Sunday (local time) suspended Honduras for refusing to reinstate Mr Zelaya.
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Re: Honduran Crisis : Talks end without accord

#28 Postby HURAKAN » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:14 am

Honduras talks end without accord
Two days of talks in Costa Rica aimed at ending the political crisis in Honduras have ended without agreement.

Mediators from the host country said the two sides had agreed to resume talks shortly but some regional leaders said they saw little sign of progress.

Ousted President Manuel Zelaya and interim leader Roberto Micheletti had refused to meet but held separate talks with Costa Rican President Oscar Arias.

Correspondents say the former allies' positions remain far apart.

Mr Zelaya, who was removed from Honduras at gun point in a coup last month, continues to describe Mr Micheletti as a criminal, while Mr Micheletti's interim government has said Mr Zelaya will be arrested if he tries to return to the country.

Both men left the talks on Thursday, leaving delegations behind to continue the discussions.

Mr Zelaya flew to the Dominican Republic, where he is hoping to gather more support, and Mr Micheletti has returned to Honduras.

On arriving back in the Honduran capital, Tegucigalpa, Mr Micheletti said: "We are in agreement with his [Mr Zelaya's] return here - but to be sent directly to the courts."

Shortly after his return, Mr Micheletti announced he had accepted the resignation of his de facto Foreign Minister, Enrique Ortez, for using racially offensive language about US President Barack Obama.

Mr Ortez was reported to have described Mr Obama as "negrito" - meaning "little black man" - which Mr Micheletti said was "a scandalous epithet".

'Timid measures'

On Friday, Hugo Chavez, the President of Venezuela and one of Mr Zelaya's key supporters, said the talks in Costa Rica were dead and that it was "horrible" to see the "usurper" Mr Micheletti being treated with deference by Mr Arias.

CRISIS TIMELINE
28 June: Troops expel Zelaya; Micheletti becomes interim leader
29 June: US President Obama condemns the overthrow as illegal
4 July: Organization of American States suspends Honduras
5 July: Zelaya's jet is turned back from Honduras, amid clashes
9 July: Micheletti leaves mediated talks in Costa Rica
Mr Chavez also criticised what he said were "timid measures" by the US in response to the crisis and demanded to know why they had not recalled their ambassador imposed sanctions.

The BBC's Charles Scanlon in the region says much will now depend on what Washington decides to do next.

The US has already cut some aid to Honduras but has not exerted its full economic and diplomatic muscle, says our correspondent.

The political crisis erupted after Mr Zelaya attempted to hold a non-binding public consultation to ask people whether they supported moves to change the constitution.

Opponents said that could have led to the removal of the current one-term limit on serving as president and so paved the way for Mr Zelaya's possible re-election.

He was forced out of Honduras at gunpoint on 28 June.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/a ... 145667.stm
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Re: Honduran Crisis : Talks end without accord

#29 Postby HURAKAN » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:11 am

Honduran interim gov't asks Venezuelan diplomats to leave

TEGUCIGALPA, July 21 (Xinhua) -- Honduras' interim government on Tuesday gave 72 hours to Venezuelan diplomats to leave, accusing them of threatening to use force and interfering into the country's internal affairs.

"The Foreign Ministry has requested the honorable embassy of Venezuela the withdrawal of its administrative, technical and diplomatic staff in a term of 72 hours due to the threats of using force, the interference in internal issues as well as the lack of respect to the territorial integrity," Deputy Foreign Minister Martha Lorena Alvarado said.

The request, however, was turned down by Vezezuelan diplomats who said they would not leave Honduras and would not obey the order of any coup government not recognized by Venezuela.

"We do not recognize the government led by Roberto Micheletti. It is a coup government, supported by bayonets," Uriel Vargas, the first secretary from the Venezuelan embassy in Honduras, told local radio station HRN.

Since the June 28 coup in which Honduran President Manuel Zelaya was deposed by force, Venezuela has shown full support for the ousted leader and condemned the post-coup government as "usurpers" and "coup-mongers."

Chavez said Tuesday that Zelaya's expulsion had also been an attack on Venezuela and regional leftist countries.

The Venezuelan president has also reiterated in various occasions that his country would not use force to meddle in Honduras' internal affairs.

The European Union on Monday suspended 65.5 million euros (93 million U.S. dollars) in aid to Honduran institutions, saying that the bloc would continue to restrict political contacts with Honduras' de facto government "until a peaceful negotiated solution has been found."
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Re: Honduran Crisis : Venezuelan diplomats asked to leave

#30 Postby HURAKAN » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:02 am

Honduras' Manuel Zelaya plots border crossing to reclaim post

BY JIM WYSS
jwyss@MiamiHerald.com

Honduras' ousted president, Manuel Zelaya, said he will spend Friday meeting with his supporters in Nicaraguan border towns, trying to determine the best route to reenter his nation and reclaim the presidency.
Speaking to reporters late Thursday in the town of Estelí -- where he has temporarily set up shop at La Campiña Hotel on the outskirts of town -- Zelaya said he was innocent of the charges levied against him in Honduras and asked soldiers to not detain him when he reenters the country.

Zelaya blamed Honduras' political elite for his ouster, saying they were scared of his embrace of the ``southern socialism'' espoused by Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez.

``Why is it dangerous to have leftist thoughts if the left has always been the precursor of reforms to the status quo?'' he said. ``[Some] Hondurans are blind when it comes to interpreting the world they live in, and they are scared of transformation and change. They are scared of losing privileges that perhaps they know they don't deserve.''

The interim government of Roberto Micheletti has said Zelaya will be arrested on sight. Zelaya is facing four charges: abuse of power, treason, usurping his duties and attempts against the form of government. The attorney general's office has also said it is pursuing charges of corruption and misuse of funds.

``I am returning precisely because justice is on my side,'' said Zelaya, wearing his trademark cowboy hat and a black vest. ``I am not talking about the justice of Micheletti, a coup leader -- that's a different kind of justice that does not recognize the will of the people and democracy.''

Zelaya arrived in this northern Nicaraguan town late Thursday, behind the wheel of a white Jeep. He arrived with a caravan of well-wishers and a large contingent of local and international journalists.

Zelaya has suggested he will cross one of Honduras' land borders protected only by a phalanx of his supporters. He said he will go in peace and hopes to be received the same way.

His supporters have called for a national strike in Honduras and asked the population to gather at border crossings to await Zelaya.

Zelaya was ousted nearly four weeks ago as he pursued a national referendum aimed at creating a constitutional assembly to redraft the Honduran constitution. With just six months left in his term of office, the Honduran congress and others feared the referendum was a grab for power. The supreme court declared the move illegal and ordered his detention. The army moved in on June 28, arresting him at home and then sending him into exile.

Zelaya was expected to hold a news conference later Friday morning.
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#31 Postby Cryomaniac » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:28 pm

Apparently he briefly crossed the border with a group of supporters and then went back into Nicaragua.
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#32 Postby Derek Ortt » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:15 am

he is going to end up dead for these games he is playing. I'll say, good riddance!

He reminds me of a child who is not getting their way (or me, when I didn't get my way as a child, lol)
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#33 Postby HURAKAN » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:20 am

Image

A picture illustrating his brief crossing into Honduras.

Link: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 1145.story

What is he hoping? That people will carry him to the presidency. He will get his ass arrested or killed.
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#34 Postby Cryomaniac » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:41 am

HURAKAN wrote:Image

A picture illustrating his brief crossing into Honduras.

Link: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 1145.story

What is he hoping? That people will carry him to the presidency. He will get his ass arrested or killed.


The problem is that Venezuela or someone else may feel the need to attack Honduras if he is killed.
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Re: Honduran Crisis : Zelaya returns to Honduras

#35 Postby HURAKAN » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:18 am

Honduras urged to avoid violence

The European Union has added its voice to appeals for calm in Honduras after the dramatic return of ousted president Manuel Zelaya raised fears of violence.

An EU statement called on Mr Zelaya and the interim government to negotiate an end to the three-month crisis.

Thousands of people defied a curfew to demonstrate their support for Mr Zelaya outside the Brazilian embassy in Tegucigalpa where he has taken refuge.

Interim leader Roberto Micheletti insisted Mr Zelaya should face trial.

The daring return of Mr Zelaya took officials by surprise, with Mr Micheletti at first denying the deposed leader was in the country.

A round-the-clock curfew until Tuesday evening was imposed, airports shut and police and soldiers put on standby.

TIMELINE: ZELAYA OUSTED
# 28 June: Zelaya forced out of country at gunpoint
# 5 July: A dramatic bid by Zelaya to return home by plane fails after the runway at Tegucigalpa airport is blocked
# 25-26 July: Zelaya briefly crosses into the country at the land border with Nicaragua on two consecutive days, in a symbolic move to demand he be allowed to return
# 21 Sept: Zelaya appears in the Brazilian embassy in Tegulcigalpa

Mr Micheletti said Brazil would be held responsible for any violence and demanded that the deposed leader be handed over.

"A call to the government of Brazil: respect the judicial order against Mr Zelaya and turn him in to Honduran authorities," he said.

But Brazil's Foreign Minister Celso Amorim warned that any threat to Mr Zelaya or the Brazilian embassy would be a grave breach of international law.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Mr Zelaya's return must not lead to violence.

"It's imperative that dialogue begin... [that] there be a channel of communication between President Zelaya and the de facto regime in Honduras," she said.

Mrs Clinton spoke in New York after talks on Monday with Costa Rican President Oscar Arias, who has brokered failed peace talks between the two Honduran parties.

'Obstacles'

In a statement on Tuesday, the EU presidency stressed the importance of a negotiated settlement.

"The European Union urges all concerned to refrain from any action that might increase tension and violence," the statement said.

In images broadcast on national television, a smiling Mr Zelaya wearing his trademark white cowboy hat appeared on the balcony of the Brazilian embassy waving to a crowd of supporters.
ANALYSIS
Charles Scanlon, BBC Americas analyst

It looks like the nightmare scenario for the coup leaders. They've done everything in their power to prevent Manuel Zelaya's return - sending soldiers to prevent his plane landing in the days after the coup, and later to the border to stop him crossing from Nicaragua.

The confirmation that Mr Zelaya is back will have come as a humiliation for Roberto Micheletti and damaged his authority inside the country.

The interim government has been condemned around the world for the coup, but has consolidated its control. Mr Zelaya's return now brings the crisis back to the boil.

The interim government has been playing for time - hoping to cling to power until new elections set for November. It is no longer in control of events and looks more vulnerable than at any time since the coup.

Mr Zelaya has been living in exile in Nicaragua since 28 June when he was taken from the presidential place at gunpoint and flown out of Honduras.

The crisis erupted after Mr Zelaya tried to hold a non-binding public consultation to ask people whether they supported moves to change the constitution, a vote ruled illegal by the Supreme Court and Congress.

The US has backed Mr Zelaya during his exile and criticised the interim leaders for failing to restore "democratic, constitutional rule".

The Organization of American States (OAS) has demanded Mr Zelaya's reinstatement.

Speaking to the BBC from inside the Brazilian embassy, Mr Zelaya said he had received support from various quarters in order to return.

"[We travelled] for more than 15 hours... through rivers and mountains until we reached the capital of Honduras," he said.

"We overcame military and police obstacles, all those on the highways here, because this country has been kidnapped by the military forces."

He said he was consulting sectors of Honduran society and the international community in order "to start the dialogue for the reconstruction of the Honduran democracy".

Elections

The interim government has repeatedly threatened to arrest Mr Zelaya, should he return, and charge him with corruption.

The OAS, meeting in emergency session, called for calm.

In a statement, OAS Secretary General Jose Miguel Insulza told Honduran authorities they were responsible for the security of Mr Zelaya and the Brazilian embassy.

Mr Insulza said that he was ready to travel to Honduras as soon as possible.

Mr Micheletti has has vowed to step aside after presidential elections are held on 29 November. But he has refused to allow Mr Zelaya to return to office in the interim.

Are you in Honduras? What is your reaction to Manuel Zelaya's return?

Send your comments using the post form below.

A selection of your comments may be published, displaying your name and location unless you state otherwise in the box below.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/a ... 268385.stm
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Re: Honduran Crisis : Zelaya returns to Honduras

#36 Postby Lurker » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:49 am

Any chance the coup was driven by raising wages 60%? Mostly foreign companies are there.
Last edited by Lurker on Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#37 Postby Derek Ortt » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:25 am

when will certain elements of the press stop calling this a coup? It was a legal transfer of power ordered by the legislative branch. No different than what Clinton faced in 1999. If he had been found guilty by the Senate, would that also have been a coup?
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#38 Postby HURAKAN » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:16 pm

I agree with Derek that this was not a coup but I think a few things were handled the wrong way. First, Zelaya shouldn't have been sent to Costa Rica. They should have sent him to prison to await his sentence. And second, they should have had elections by this time.

Definition of a coup d' etat:

A coup is a planned but sudden attempt to seize power from the state and replace the existing government with a new one, usually by force and with the support of the military.

----

They still have the same government, just a new president de facto.
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Re: Honduran Crisis : Zelaya returns to Honduras

#39 Postby HURAKAN » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:19 pm

Brazil Lula calls on Honduras rulers to negotiate

Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:12pm EDT
By Walter Brandimarte

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva Tuesday urged Honduras' de facto government to negotiate a way out of a political crisis that escalated after ousted President Manuel Zelaya slipped back into the country.

Speaking to journalists in New York, Lula said Brazil was doing what "any democratic country would do" by granting Zelaya refuge in its embassy in Tegucigalpa.

"Brazil is guaranteeing that he stays there -- that is an international right and we do not expect the coup leaders to touch the Brazilian embassy. We expect them to negotiate," said Lula, who is in New York to attend the United Nation's general assembly.

Outside the Brazilian embassy in the capital Tuesday, Honduran police fired tear gas at demonstrators who threw back rocks, and a Reuters photographer said at least two gas canisters landed inside the embassy compound.

Lula said he spoke this morning with Zelaya, and asked him to discourage violence. The president repeated that the international community can not accept a government that has not been elect democratically.

"If you don't like your government you change it in the next elections. What we can not tolerate is that coup leaders become presidents without winning elections," he said.

(Editing by Jackie Frank)
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#40 Postby Derek Ortt » Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:07 pm

if the president breaks the law in a democratic state, he is removed

You're right Sandy. Honduras should not have showed leniency to the deposed president. Only caused them trouble. However, i am not sure elections were warranted yet. We would not have had them had Clinton been convicted. Gore would have immediately become the president. Besides, the elections are scheduled just 2 months from now. No use having two elections
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