AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS

[Brent]

I bet Charles Widmore is involved! That is one thing I am sure of!!!

I have to say... plane breaking up over the ocean, vanishing... the thoughts were unavoidable.


How I wish they were on the island as opposed to the certain death they faced. My heart broke thinking of the fear they endured and for the families left to mourn. May God comfort them.

I agree. I hope that no one took my post as being callous. Exactly who is leading the investigation? Could this be a case of too many chiefs delaying what appears now of being the inevitable?

I believe both Brazil and France are investigating, because it's closest to Brazilian territory(and left from Brazil) and because it was headed to France(and was a French plane). I think there is definitely a problem with too many people in charge and no organization. The whole thing has seemed botched to me from the beginning.

[HURAKAN]

Air France replaces speed sensors

Air France has said it is accelerating replacement of speed monitors on Airbus planes following the disappearance of a jet over the Atlantic six days ago.

It said it had noticed problems arising from icing on the monitors last year and had begun changing them in April.

There has been speculation that faulty data on the old-type sensors may have caused the crash of the Rio de Janeiro-Paris flight with 228 people on board.

Brazil says two bodies from the missing plane have been recovered.

Items - including a case with a ticket for the flight - were also picked up on Saturday - some 800km (500 miles) north-east of Brazil's Fernando de Noronha islands where the AF Flight 447 disappeared in turbulent weather.

Investigators' warning

Investigators say that sensors on board the missing Airbus 330 were providing "inconsistent data" in the minutes before it went missing.

SEARCH FOR FLIGHT AF 447
# 1 June: Contact lost with plane over mid-Atlantic
# 2 June: First debris spotted from the air includes an airline seat. Brazilian defence minister says debris is from missing plane
# 3 June: More debris spotted, including a 7m-wide chunk of metal. Fuel slick seen on ocean surface
# 4 June: Buoys and pallet recovered from ocean said to be from plane. Officials later retract statement
# 6 June: First two bodies, plus suitcase and backpack found, along with seat thought to be from the plane

On Saturday, Air France said that in May 2008 it had begun noticing "incidents of loss of airspeed information during cruise flight" on its A330s and A340s jets - although only a "small number" of incidents had been reported.

The airline said it then contacted Airbus, who sent a recommendation to replace the monitors.

However, Air France stressed that the manufacturers had not made this a safety requirement.

The statement said that "without prejudging a link with the causes of the accident, Air France has accelerated this [replacement]programme".

It added that this did not necessarily mean the aircraft was not safe to fly.

French investigators also warned against drawing early conclusions.

Data recorders

The statement came as the Brazilian air force announced that two male bodies and debris from the Air France plane had been recovered.

Air force spokesman Jorge Amaral said objects linked to passengers known to be on the flight were also found. Those included a suitcase with an Air France ticket and a backpack with a computer inside.

"It was confirmed with Air France that the ticket number corresponds to a passenger on the flight," Col Amaral said.

A blue seat was also found, and Air France is checking the serial number to see whether it came from the flight.

The remains were found not far from where the last signal from the plane was received, and taken to the islands of Fernando de Noronha.

Experts on human remains are on their way to examine the find.

The items were the first to be definitely linked to the plane, nearly six days after the crash.

But the BBC's Gary Duffy in Sao Paulo says the authorities are adopting a cautious approach after previous reports of debris being found proved false.

Correspondents say that much of the search effort so far has been focused on finding flight data recorders, which have sonar beacons - or "pingers" - attached to them.

But French officials say there was no guarantee the beacons were still attached to the flight recorders, and they may have been separated in the impact of the crash.

A French submarine is being sent to join in the search. It has sonar equipment that could help locate the airliner's flight data recorders.

The US is also sending specialised listening equipment.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/w ... 087573.stm

[Dionne]

They're having a memorial service here today for Anne & Mike Harris.

How can an entire plane just disappear? I just can't believe they haven't found any parts of it. Not all of it would have sunk.

Several scenarios possible. Looking in the wrong area. If the aircraft suffered catastrophic failure up at 30K....pieces might be very small. Ocean currents drifting pieces far from search site.

That was one helluva storm with cumulonimbus towers to 50K. 100 mph updrafts.

EDIT: Bodies have been found. Tickets and a briefcase also found, confirming the flight. Also some vague info about airspeed indicators on the aircraft had not been changed out as suggested by the manufacturer...Airbus.

[Stephanie]

More bodies recovered:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_ ... azil_plane

Brazil recovers 3 more bodies near jet crash site
Buzz Up Send

AP – Federal Police forensic officers walk in front of a Brazilian Air Force plane during search operations …
By MARCO SIBAJA and ALAN CLENDENNING, Associated Press Writers Marco Sibaja And Alan Clendenning, Associated Press Writers – 3 mins ago
RECIFE, Brazil – Three more bodies were found Sunday in the ocean near the spot where an Air France jet is believed to have crashed a week ago, bringing the total number of bodies plucked from the water to five, Brazil's military said.

Authorities also said pilots searching the mid-Atlantic also spotted an undetermined number of additional bodies from the air and are sending ships to recover them, said Navy Capt. Giucemar Tabosa Cardoso.

Flight 447 disappeared in turbulent weather May 31 during a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris with 228 people aboard — all now presumed dead. The investigation is increasingly focused on whether external instruments may have iced over, confusing speed sensors and leading computers to set the plane's speed too fast or slow — a potentially deadly mistake.

The French agency investigating the disaster said airspeed instruments on the plane had not been replaced as the maker had recommended, but cautioned that it was too early to draw conclusions about what role that may have played in the crash.

The agency, BEA, said the plane received inconsistent airspeed readings from different instruments as it struggled in a massive thunderstorm.

In Brazil, Air Force Col. Henry Munhoz said he could not immediately provide information on how many more bodies were spotted from the air. Cardoso said late Sunday morning that ships should be able to recover some of them within hours despite rainy weather and poor visibility.

None of the bodies recovered Sunday had documents with them to indicate their identities, and authorities did not specify their gender. The first two bodies, found Saturday, were men.

The bodies were found about 70 kilometers (45 miles) from the site where the jet sent out a burst of messages indicating it was experiencing a series of electric failures and losing cabin pressure. All the bodies have been recovered and spotted in the same general area.

Authorities also announced that searchers spotted two airplane seats and other debris with Air France's logo. They declined comment on the condition of the bodies that were recovered, saying the release of that information would be too emotionally painful for relatives.

____

Marco Sibaja reported from Recife and Alan Clendenning reported from Sao Paulo.


What I don't understand is why it took so long to locate these bodies? Were they trapped inside of the wreckage and then floated out?

[JonathanBelles]

17 bodies have now been recovered according to CNN.

[Dionne]

It was a very long four minutes.

[mf_dolphin]

The latest pictures of debris recovery show the tail remarkably intact. http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,464 ... 0.html#4_0

Looks like it snapped off right where it joined the aircraft's body.

[Rainband]

long 15 minutes My Prayers go out to the family and friends.

[x-y-no]

I ran across this very interesting analysis

http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/

of the meteorological conditions in the area of the crash. Interesting stuff.

[Rainband]

I ran across this very interesting analysis

http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/

of the meteorological conditions in the area of the crash. Interesting stuff.

that's already posted a few pages back viewtopic.php?f=6&t=104681&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=80

[tropicana]

Just a few of the some of the OTHER AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS IN LAST FEW DAYS

Wed Jun 3 2009
SOUTHWEST AIRLINES LIGHTNING STRIKE
The crew of a Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-700, flight WN-2197 from Oakland,CA to Burbank,CA (USA) with 53 passengers, decided to return to Oakland after the airplane was struck by lightning about 10 minutes into the flight while climbing through FL310. The airplane landed safely 25 minutes after the lightning strike.
The flight was cancelled, the passenger booked onto other flights

Wed Jun 3 2009
CAYMAN AIRWAYS PRESSURIZATION PROBLEMS
A Cayman Airways Boeing 737-300, registration VP-CKY performing flight KX-107 from Miami,FL (USA) to Grand Cayman (Cayman Islands), was enroute at FL350, when the primary cabin pressure controller suffered a malfunction about halfway into the flight. The crew decided to descend to 10,000 feet and continued to Grand Cayman, where the airplane landed safely about 40 minutes later.
The airline said, it was a normal descent as result of the anomaly.
Passengers described the descent like an emergency descent. The oxygen masks did not deploy.


Thu Jun 4 2009
AIR CANADA PRESSURIZATION PROBLEMS
An Air Canada Airbus A330-300, registration C-GFAF performing flight AC-3 from Vancouver,BC (Canada) to Tokyo Narita (Japan) with 147 people on board, had departed runway 26L and was climbing to cruise level, when the airplane levelled off at FL260 due to pressurization problems. After some troubleshooting the crew decided to return to Vancouver, where the airplane landed safely on runway 26L about 65 minutes after departure

Fri Jun 5 2009
AIR EUROPA LIGHTNING STRIKE
An Air Europa Embraer ERJ-195, flight UX-7302 from Madrid,SP to Vigo,SP (Spain) with 100 passengers, was enroute just about to start the descent to Vigo, when the aircraft was hit by a lightning. The crew reassured the passengers, that all systems were working normally despite the lightning strike. The airplane continued for a safe landing in Vigo.
No damages were found.

Fri Jun 5 2009
AIR CANADA AUTO PILOT PROBLEMS
An Air Canada Boeing 777-200LR, registration C-FIVK performing flight AC-856 from Toronto Pearson,ON (Canada) to London Heathrow,EN (UK), was enroute overhead the Atlantic near N50 W46 at FL390, when the crew reported problems with the autopilot without declaring emergency and requested to return to Montreal,QC (Canada). The airplane descended to FL340, turned around and headed back to Canada, when the crew requested to return back to Toronto. The airplane landed safely on Toronto's runway 15L about 4 hours after turning around.
The captain told the passengers, that the navigation computers had fallen into degraded mode

Sat Jun 6 2009
AER LINGUS LIGHTNING STRIKE
An Aer Lingus Airbus A321-200, registration EI-CPC performing flight EI-164 from Dublin (Ireland) to London Heathrow,EN (UK), was climbing through 9000 feet out of Dublin, when the airplane was hit by a lightning. The crew decided to return to Dublin, where the airplane landed safely 23 minutes after departure.
The flight was cancelled, the passengers rebooked onto other flights.
The airplane was being assessed for possible damages and resumed service 5 hours later as flight EI-498 to Faro (Portugal).

Sat Jun 6 2009
AMERICAN AIRLINES HYDRAULIC LEAK
An American Airlines Airbus A300-600, registration N80058 performing flight AA-803 from Miami,FL (USA) to Port Au Prince (Haiti), was about 5 minutes into the flight, when the crew levelled the airplane off at 16000 feet to troubleshoot a technical problem and finally decided to return to Miami due to a low pressure indication in one hydraulics system. The airplane landed safely about 30 minutes after departure.
Mechanics found a low fluid quantity and subsequently a leak in that system.
The flight had to be cancelled.

Sun Jun 7 2009
AMERICAN EAGLE BIRD STRIKE
An American Eagle Embraer ERJ-145, flight MQ-4490 from Chicago O'Hare,IL to Cincinnati Northern Kentucky,KY (USA), struck a bird while on final approach. The crew continued for a safe landing on runway 18C.
A post flight inspection revealed damage to the landing gear lights, the FAA reported

-justin-

[SaskatchewanScreamer]

Re Flight 447 and continued speculation........

The crew of the stricken Air France plane would have had to take over from a computer that was in the throws of the equivalent of a cerebral hemorrhage. In the heart of a storm, they may have lacked the information to keep the big jet flying upright in the narrow”envelope” of high altitude speed limits known as “coffin corner”. Their margin of safety could have been as little as 60-80mph, beyond which the aircraft would stall or dive, an Airbus pilot said.

Speculation over the Airbus systems and the crew’s likely response is filling the internet forums where aviation professionals gather.

One Airbus captain wrote on one site today: “I have never been taught unusual attitude recovery in the simulator. I was told that you don’t have to have this training, because the Airbus has so many protections, that you don’t need this skill (sounds very similar about the reasoning behind Titanic) . . .”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 461994.ece

My sympathies to the families of those poor souls.

[WeatherLovingDoc]

I've been waiting for satellite imagery of the ICZ weather at the time of the AF 447 flight. Here is the first picture and commentary I've seen with link (NB it's in Portugese):
(http://noticias.uol.com.br/ultnot/voo-a ... 3u153.jhtm)

An image captured by the Meteosat-9 satellite (Eumetsat) 14 minutes before AF 447 sent the last message, showed that the plane crossed an "agglomeration of clouds" with temperatures as low as -83° C (-117° F).
The image shows a ultra dense agglomeration of clouds, that could have caused strong (forte' in french) turbulence for the plane.

As I read, the -83C correlates with a cloud top of about 60Kft.

Well, looks like I still need to work on uploading an image. Perhaps one of you might lend a hand and show the satellite image itself. My sincere condolences to families who loss loved ones.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9531/09satelite.jpg

edited by vbhoutex

[tropicana]

Mon Jun 8 2009

AIR CANADA at Vancouver BC .. FLOCK OF GEESE
An Air Canada Boeing 777-300, registration C-FITW performing flight AC-8 from Hong Kong (China) to Vancouver,BC (Canada) with 285 people on board, was on final approach to Vancouver's runway 08L at about 500 feet AGL, when the crew spotted a flock of geese about 200 feet below them and initiated a go-around. During the go-around about 6 geese impacted the aircraft. The aircraft landed safely on the second approach.
The Canadian TSB reported, that a post flight inspection revealed damage to the engine #1 (left hand) fan nose cowl and acoustic liner, to 4 fan blades of engine #2 (right hand), abradable liner, right wing outboard leading edge as well as slats and flaps. The damage needs further assessment, the airplane is currently out of service.

Tue Jun 9 2009
AMERICAN AIRLINES EMERGENCY LANDING IN HALIFAX

WASHINGTON (AP) — An American Airlines Boeing 767-300 en route from New York City to Europe was diverted Tuesday to a Canadian airport after a fire was reported in a bathroom.
Officials for the airline and the Federal Aviation Administration said Flight 64 landed safely at around 8:20pm Halifax time at the airport in Halifax, Canada, after the pilot declared an emergency due to smoke in the mid-cabin.
The plane had departed from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York at 5:55 p.m. EDT bound for Zurich.
American Airlines spokeswoman Mary Frances Fagan said there were 194 passengers and 12 crew members aboard.
Halifax Stanfield International Airport spokesman Peter Spurway said the smoke was traced to a fan motor in the bathroom.

All passengers got off safely, but one was taken away by ambulance to hospital, Spurway said.
American was sending another 767-300 to Halifax on Tuesday night to pick up the passengers and take them on to Zurich, Fagan said, adding that the passengers likely would arrive in the Swiss city about eight hours late.

-justin-

[senorpepr]

I've been waiting for satellite imagery of the ICZ weather at the time of the AF 447 flight. Here is the first picture and commentary I've seen with link (NB it's in Portugese):
(http://noticias.uol.com.br/ultnot/voo-a ... 3u153.jhtm)

An image captured by the Meteosat-9 satellite (Eumetsat) 14 minutes before AF 447 sent the last message, showed that the plane crossed an "agglomeration of clouds" with temperatures as low as -83° C (-117° F).
The image shows a ultra dense agglomeration of clouds, that could have caused strong (forte' in french) turbulence for the plane.

As I read, the -83C correlates with a cloud top of about 60Kft.

Well, looks like I still need to work on uploading an image. Perhaps one of you might lend a hand and show the satellite image itself. My sincere condolences to families who loss loved ones.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9531/09satelite.jpg

edited by vbhoutex

Check out http://weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/

[cycloneye]

Is there a Terror Connection?



Print ShareThis
AP


June 9: Members of Brazilian Air Force carry a body recovered from the ocean during search operations of the missing Air France jet.
June 9: Members of Brazilian Air Force carry a body recovered from the ocean during search operations of the missing Air France jet.
Two passengers with names linked to Islamic terrorism were on board the Air France flight that crashed in the Atlantic Ocean, killing all 228 on board, it has emerged.

French secret servicemen established the connection while working through the list of those who boarded the doomed Airbus in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, on May 31.

Agents are now trying to establish dates of birth for the two dead passengers, and family connections.

There is a possibility that the name similarities are simply a "macabre coincidence," the source added, but the revelation is still being "taken very seriously."

Flight AF447 crashed in mid-Atlantic en route to Paris during a violent storm.

While it is certain that there were computer malfunctions, terrorism has not been ruled out.

Soon after news of the fatal crash broke, agents working for the DGSE (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure), were dispatched to Brazil.

It was there that they established that two names on the passenger list are also on highly classified documents listing the names of radical Muslims considered a threat to the French Republic.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525642,00.html

[WeatherLovingDoc]

Thanks for that informative link Senor Pepr. Complicated, but well worth the read and exactly the weather conditions information some might be interested in on a weather site such as this.

For those seeking commentary by pilots and experts, see airliner.net.

RIP 447.

WLD

[gtalum]

Ah, you gotta love sensationalist "journalism". Notice how they throw the term "name similarities" in there to cover their butts?

[mf_dolphin]

The AP isn't known for being sensational. Reading the article posted it would appear to be legitimate news.

[gtalum]

The AP isn't known for being sensational.

Sure they are. Remember the swine flu scare last month? Today the disease has reached pandemic status, but it's not exactly the most frightening disease on earth, is it?