Atlantic TC wind radii (prior to 1988)

[MiamiensisWx]

Does anyone have a concise site that cites wind radii data for pre-1988 Atlantic tropical cyclones? My data has been based on personal research via numerous resources; however, I have not seen a site that comprehensively covers pre-1988 wind radii data. Thanks...

[Ptarmigan]

Here is the link for Atlantic TC before 1988. Goes from 1851 to 1987. Don't know how accurate it is.
ftp://rammftp.cira.colostate.edu/demari ... oradii.txt

[wxman57]

As I posted in the other thread, data prior to the age of modern recon with Doppler radar, SFMR and GPS dropwindsondes is very poor. There were no direct measurements of surface winds in the early days of recon, just FL winds and often the planes would not fly into the centers of the more powerful hurricanes. And prior to recon, those radii are pretty much a guess based on sporadic ship and coastal obs.

I was looking through the data from 1851-1950 and it's "amazing" that all but one or two of the major hurricanes occurred near land either in the Caribbean or along the U.S. Coast. And there was not one Cat 5 hurricane from 1851 until 1932! The 1932 and 1935 Cat 5s would never have been identified as such if they hadn't struck the Bahamas (1932) and the Keys as Cat 5s. We probably missed some Cat 5s even during the age of recon, as most Cat 5s only maintain that intensity for a few hours. Just goes to show you how pointless it is to use the current hurricane database to identify any trends.

[Ptarmigan]

As I posted in the other thread, data prior to the age of modern recon with Doppler radar, SFMR and GPS dropwindsondes is very poor. There were no direct measurements of surface winds in the early days of recon, just FL winds and often the planes would not fly into the centers of the more powerful hurricanes. And prior to recon, those radii are pretty much a guess based on sporadic ship and coastal obs.

I was looking through the data from 1851-1950 and it's "amazing" that all but one or two of the major hurricanes occurred near land either in the Caribbean or along the U.S. Coast. And there was not one Cat 5 hurricane from 1851 until 1932! The 1932 and 1935 Cat 5s would never have been identified as such if they hadn't struck the Bahamas (1932) and the Keys as Cat 5s. We probably missed some Cat 5s even during the age of recon, as most Cat 5s only maintain that intensity for a few hours. Just goes to show you how pointless it is to use the current hurricane database to identify any trends.

I tend to think there were a lot more Category 5 hurricanes that went unrecorded. I think the 1886 Indianola Hurricane was a Category 5, even up to landfall. I made a list of likely Category 5 hurricanes prior to 1928. I think the Great 1780 Hurricane was a Category 5 as well. And yeah, I think many storms do go undetected. 1914 only recorded one and that sounds really dubious. I think there are more, but they were likely fish storms. If I had to guess how many storms formed in 1914, it was probably 4 to 7 storms.

[CrazyC83]

Indianola was likely a Category 5 - and then some - in the Gulf. My guess is that its pressure was lower than 925mb at landfall.

[MGC]

As I recall, back in the old days, Recon would gestimate using the sea state or the Beauford Scale. Once while at sea we were in a T-storm and the sea was completely white with sea foam. Winds as I recall were near 70KTS for a brief period.....MGC

[wxman57]

Indianola was likely a Category 5 - and then some - in the Gulf. My guess is that its pressure was lower than 925mb at landfall.

What evidence is there of greater than 155 mph winds in Indianola? What would you base your Cat 5 estimate on? Pressure alone? We know that Katrina was a Cat 3 at 920-923mb. Wind speed depends on the pressure gradient rather than the lowest pressure. A big hurricane with a specific central pressure will have a lesser pressure gradient than a smaller hurricane with the same central pressure. A larger hurricane, not necessarily a stronger one, will produce more widespread damage and a larger and more extensive storm surge than a smaller Cat 5.

[CrazyC83]

Indianola was likely a Category 5 - and then some - in the Gulf. My guess is that its pressure was lower than 925mb at landfall.

What evidence is there of greater than 155 mph winds in Indianola? What would you base your Cat 5 estimate on? Pressure alone? We know that Katrina was a Cat 3 at 920-923mb. Wind speed depends on the pressure gradient rather than the lowest pressure. A big hurricane with a specific central pressure will have a lesser pressure gradient than a smaller hurricane with the same central pressure. A larger hurricane, not necessarily a stronger one, will produce more widespread damage and a larger and more extensive storm surge than a smaller Cat 5.

The thought that it was weakening before landfall. There is no known case of such a strong storm holding its intensity up to landfall that far north in the Gulf, unless it was a really small storm.