Lakota indians renounce US treaties

[Derek Ortt]

the 9th and 10th amendment does NOT state that a state can secede. Nowhere is that stated.


No sure where that intrepretation of hose amendments comes from. All the 10th amendment states that power not delegated to the federal government is reserved for the states. However, secession is not a right. Nothing in amendment 9 either

[gtalum]

the 9th and 10th amendment does NOT state that a state can secede. Nowhere is that stated.


No sure where that intrepretation of hose amendments comes from. All the 10th amendment states that power not delegated to the federal government is reserved for the states. However, secession is not a right. Nothing in amendment 9 either

The US Constitution grants rights and powers to the federal government. Nowhere does the US Constitution grant the federal government the power to prevent states from seceding. So point 1: the federal government has no right to stop states from seceding.

The 9th Amendment states "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." "The people" is by most constitutional scholars considered to extend to states.

Thus rights not enumerated in the constitution are not to be denied the people or the states unless those rights are specifically forbidden by the constitution or an amendment. As has been noted, nowhere does teh US COnstitution forbid secession.

The 10th Amendment states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

Thus the powers not granted to the federal government by the constitution nor specifically forbidden from the states by the constitution are held solely by the states and the people. The power to secede, as mentioned, is not forbidden to the states, nor is the power to prevent secession granted to the federal government.

It is absolutely necessary to accept that the constitution is the only document that grants rights to the federal government. Since the right to prevent secession is not granted, the federal government does not have the constitutionally-granted power to prevent secession.

As you have noted earlier in this thread, though, the federal government did steal the right of secession from the states through military force. And since then, they have usurped and stolen many other powers not granted it by the US Constitution.

The US was formed as a confederation of sovereign states and not as the top-heavy, monolithic, and unwieldy power-hungry bureaucracy that we have now.

[Derek Ortt]

but nowhere is the right of secession granted either.

But lets say that secession is legal. I would consider them an enemy to be crushed and conquered. My allegience is to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, not to Florida, which is a part of the USA

[Coredesat]

but nowhere is the right of secession granted either.

But lets say that secession is legal. I would consider them an enemy to be crushed and conquered. My allegience is to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, not to Florida, which is a part of the USA

It was already stated that Native American reservations aren't states. They aren't subject to provisions of the Constitution that apply to states.

By your logic, I wouldn't ever let a friend of mine who happens to live on one of the reservations in question meet you - I'd fear for his safety.

[Derek Ortt]

While the reservations are not part of a particular state (yes, New York State, this applies to you as well and your efforts to tax Native Americans), they still are a part of the United States. Since I do not believe in secession, I have no choice but to stand by my opinions

[Ptarmigan]

The 9th Amendment goes:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

The 10th Amendment goes:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

9th Amendment reinforces the Bill of Rights. The 10th Amendment is about state's right. As far as I know, there is nowhere in the Constitution that says anything about secession. Last time such a thing happened was during the Civil War, when the South formed Confederate States of American or CSA. As for American Indians and reservations, that is under Department of Interior, which would be federal jurisdiction.

I know in Texas, the Alabama-Coushatta tribed wanted to open a casino, but were not allowed because of Texas law forbidded casinos. They argued that it will be established in Indian reservation land that is under the federal government, not state of Texas. However a judge ruled against the Indians.

[azsnowman]

but nowhere is the right of secession granted either.

But lets say that secession is legal. I would consider them an enemy to be crushed and conquered. My allegience is to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, not to Florida, which is a part of the USA

It was already stated that Native American reservations aren't states. They aren't subject to provisions of the Constitution that apply to states.

By your logic, I wouldn't ever let a friend of mine who happens to live on one of the reservations in question meet you - I'd fear for his safety.

I've lived on reservations ALL of my 48 yrs and I can guarantee you one thing, he wouldn't stand a CHANCE, it would be the replay of "Custers Last Stand!"

Derek...this is the kind of hatered for Native Americans that makes me SICK to my stomach Come on out to Arizona and make this statement!

[gtalum]

but nowhere is the right of secession granted either.

But lets say that secession is legal. I would consider them an enemy to be crushed and conquered. My allegience is to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, not to Florida, which is a part of the USA

Unfortunately, the whole "my country, right or wrong" mentality is what leads to totalitarianism.

You're right, though, in that the feds will probably go back on their treaties with the Lakota and the native americans will get screwed yet again.

[Derek Ortt]

I do NOT hate Native Americans, az

I hate secesionists

[MGC]

If I recall correctly, Texas when it joined the Union retained the right to leave the Union and form its own country. I don't remember where I read this though.....MGC

[HURAKAN]

If I recall correctly, Texas when it joined the Union retained the right to leave the Union and form its own country. I don't remember where I read this though.....MGC

The point of no return!

http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/exhibits/ann ... ion11.html

Neither Texas, nor any other state can legaly leave the union.