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M2

Aspen Fire Logistical Detail

#41 Postby M2 » Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:37 am

    1. The Aspen Fire on Mt. Lemmon has now been designated the #1 Fire Priority in the Country according to the National Fire Management officials.

    2. There has been no rain for 66 days.

    3. Emergency Management officials, FEMA and insurance companies have already been working with those affected by the fire. The Red Cross is onsite managing logistics and operations to help evacuees find suitable lodging and in making alternate arrangements.

    4. Tucson American Red Cross: 520-318-6740 will be manning phone lines (live) beginning at 9am on Saturday morning. Additional information and details will be posted here as it released.


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#42 Postby Colin » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:23 am

I hope this fire doesn't spread much further.. and that you evacuated Arizonians can move back to your homes! :) I saw pictures on the TV of these massive fires, and they are very nasty... :o Stay safe guys and I'm praying for you!
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#43 Postby azsnowman » Sat Jun 21, 2003 9:49 am

Burnt Offerings!

Half of once-picturesque Summerhaven is gone. So too is much hope for meaningful forest remediation to stave off the towering flames of crown fires in Arizona this season.

It is a year since Arizona's worst-ever wildfire, "Rodeo-Chediski," ravaged the eastern forests. And it is fair to say that, in that time, virtually nothing has changed in the state's public forests.

No, actually. Something has changed. The forests have become drier. They have become thick with dead and dying victims of bark beetles. They have become that which Arizonans could not have imagined possible when the billowing plumes of Rodeo-Chediski darkened the horizon: They are even more dangerous than ever.

As Summerhaven in southern Arizona burned this week, the debate over forest preservation played out in three relevant venues. One was in Montana at the Western Governors Association meetings. Another occurred in Prescott during public discussions over thinning projects there. And the third, a lawsuit filed by a New Mexico environmental group, just sort of sat there awaiting a federal judge's ruling.

The unifying theme of the three events is Seinfeldian: They have come to nothing.

In Montana, forest managers, forest industry reps and environmentalists at the governors' conference discussed how to proceed with forest-thinning projects. Their talks came to nothing. As reported by The Republic's Mary Jo Pitzl, participants concluded they had nothing to agree upon but disagreement.

Meanwhile, Summerhaven burned.

In Prescott, where a gust of wind last year during the "Indian" fire could have put the torch to Whiskey Row, a $15 million plan to thin 34,000 acres of public and private land will crawl through a painfully slow review process, likely until August. At that point it almost certainly will be appealed by environmentalists. Months of litigation will follow. Meanwhile, the bark beetle, which is not impressed by federal court injunctions, will continue providing hyperdry fodder for the next fiery holocaust.

Speaking of federal court, a judge is expected to rule, at long last, on whether a trio of salvage projects from the Rodeo-Chediski fire can proceed.

Of all the hyperbolic nuttiness and intransigence surrounding forest remediation, this one stands out as a prime example of how pointlessly tail-chasing the debate has become.

Officials at the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forests wanted to salvage dead and fire-damaged trees on 19,000 acres, all near roads, power lines, fences or homes. They weren't seeking to tread upon the deep forest. They weren't even seeking to cut live trees. They simply sought to ameliorate the immediate dangers posed by dead or dying ones.

But, of course, the plan was appealed - in January, by the Forest Conservation Council of Santa Fe.

Meanwhile, the White Mountain Apache Tribe, which suffered enormously from Rodeo-Chediski, has nearly finished its salvage operations: good, because it constitutes wise stewardship; bad, because the tribe's product has glutted the market for fire-salvage trees, which typically carry a unique blue stain in the wood.

So even if the Forest Service gets court approval to proceed, current market conditions may preclude the effort. Salvage projects of timber from near Flagstaff have stalled for just that reason.

So, judges - at the behest of sanctimonious environmentalists from New Mexico - weigh the relative value of cutting dead trees 100 feet away from Arizona communities rather than 500 feet to a half- mile, as proposed by the Forest Service.

Meanwhile, Summerhaven burns. And Prescott, Show Low, Pinetop-Lakeside and a host of other Arizona communities tremble, awaiting the next fireball to explode deep inside the forest. Trees must be cut, and they must start falling now.

Environmentalists can continue this sort of reckless indifference to disaster only for so long. It should be noted that no Arizona Greens participated in the Santa Fe group's lawsuit, and even Gov. Janet Napolitano, a genuine friend of environmentalists, cringed when the New Mexicans filed their suit.

The courts cannot be environmentalism's only friend. This week, the movement lost whatever friends it had in Summerhaven.

Summerhaven has burned. How many other friends will it lose before this latest season of fire ends?

Dennis
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Lemmon News

#44 Postby M2 » Sat Jun 21, 2003 1:31 pm

As of noon Saturday - Solstice Day - the Arizona Fire situation has
not really improved. The Aspen Fire footprint has enlarged to the east,
with 1/3 of the 51 additional homes in Soldiers Camp and Sykes Nob areas burned down.
Over 6300+ acres have been consumed - on all 4 sides of the Mt. Lemmon area.
Count on houses gone now exceeds 270+. One tower was damaged up on
Radio Ridge where all the transmitters are bunched
together including those for cell service, repeaters, etc. Red Flag
warnings are in currently effect for 2/3 of Arizona; winds are still
blowing towards the NNE. One famous site farther downhill which is
keeping an eye on the fire situation is the Biosphere - the glass and
steel structure where 'scientists' back in the early 90s sealed themselves
in to highlight their potential self-sufficiency in space. (A medical
emergency basically ended that foray). As everyone has said and aptly
highlighted, it is so dry, thick and mismanaged up in the forests that this
will be a scenario played out over and over this summer throughout the
Southwest. Nature has a way of renewing herself and if we cannot help
her, she will take care of the problem on her own - - - unfortunately
people and their construction are entangled in the renewment process.

Supplies and donations may be taken (or sent) to the Hilton El
Conquistador at 10000 North Oracle Road in Tucson.

I talked with Pete Martin from the Tucson Red Cross down at the El
Conquistador. She said that the National Red Cross is there and will be
establishing addional phone lines and communications. In the meantime,
the Tucson Realty Association is providing evacuees with details regarding
affordable houses that are currently for rent and is trying to get them into
more normal housing for the immediate future. It could be months until
dead animals and debris are cleaned up before evacuees are allowed to
return.

As with last year's Rodeo-Chedeski fire, donations of specific items are
needed (again): personal items like shampoo, soap,
toothbrushes/paste...etc.etc. plus canned/dry food items, cookware,
utensils, clothes, furniture, etc.... normal living necessities. Currently, the
El Conquistador would be the place to take initial supplies until another
location can be established. It is only a rumor that the El Con was going to
kick out the evacuees on Monday - that is not true according to Pete
Martin.

To provide financial help, receive/donate services or check on friends &
loved ones, in addition to the El Conquistador (520-544-5000), please
contact the Tucson American Red Cross during normal business hours
(9am-5pm MST): 520-318-6749. The proposed 24/7 line is not yet
operational but is in the works.


Donation Mailing address: Tucson American Red Cross
4601 E. Broadway, Tucson, AZ 85710

And BTW, she wanted/wrote down the name of the S2K website and is providing it to those looking for details.
Last edited by M2 on Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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#45 Postby wx247 » Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:01 pm

Keep us updated. What a terrible situation Arizona is facing! I hope the weather cooperates soon.
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#46 Postby Arizwx » Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:03 pm

Correction M2,
It is now the 'Hilton El Conqistador' 10000 N Oracle Rd Oro Valley,AZ. 85737.
More homes in Soldier Camp are burning..6 Slurry Bombers and 8 Helo crews were gorunded yesterday due to high winds..incredible thermal updrafts where the Big DC-6s and B-25s fly just 350ft off the Tree Canopy Decks..as the Crowning Blazes continue.Way too dangerous.
700 firefighters are on the crews active..with another 300 due in tomorrow.
'Inmate' quasi Hot Shot crews are also on the line.Nothing but hope and prayer can help these brave souls..nothing.
If the fire jumps to Oracle and the Bioshhere II (Colombia Univ run now)
the County of Pinal will have to kick in $$$$$$ with Pima Co as well as call in the 'Golder Ranch' Fireteams and Rurul Metro will take the burden of other Emerg Calls to homes etc as per usual on a fee basis.
God Forbid we have additional emergecies.The National Guard is set up along the Entrances from the Backside to Peppersauce Canyon looking for suspicious activtity and to quell looting of what is left of Summserhaven.
We also lost the Ski Lift at Ski Valley and the lodge was damaged.
TV signal is now on backup generators for all of Tucson.
And the Wind Howls still...
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#47 Postby southerngale » Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:22 pm

I've been keeping up with this thread and watching the coverage on Fox News. It is just so sad!! I don't really know what else to say except I'm keeping everyone in Arizona in my prayers. :(
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Summerhaven

#48 Postby Aslkahuna » Sat Jun 21, 2003 5:16 pm

I dare say isn't the only place where the environmentalists have lost friends. I will no longer support any environmental group or initiative anywhere and in any issue until the main stream environmental groups rid the movement of of the radical and eco terrorist groups once and for all. Until that happens, they are all wackos as far as I'm concerned. Since I know the environmental movement will never rid itself of it's own Al-Qaida we will have to do it for them, it's time for the average American to rise up and destroy radical environmentalism.

Meantime, to return to the weather, winds still blow here today and although TUS NWS says that they were 5-10kt less today below 6k-we haven't seen that in the wind reports from Libby-but then again, this time of year the average mixing height is at the 550mb level. To give an idea of how dry things are around here, I'm smelling Eucalyptus which since there are no Eucalypti in the Park means that the oil is evaporating off the nearest trees and drifting this way on the wind. Fortunately, we have a wide road between us and the Post so it's not likely that that we have to worry about a fire jump. However, ArizWx and any Australian can tell you what kind of a bomb a drought dried Eucalyptus tree can be and Tucson is full of them. Looking at the GFS today, the monsoon moisture boundary is indicated as being about 180 NM south of us on July 7th which is the closest it's forecast to be. If everyone crosses their fingers and toes, lights candles and incense, and call upon whatever deities they wordship then maybe we can get this thing started by the 9th.

Steve
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#49 Postby Arizwx » Sun Jun 22, 2003 4:22 am

180 nm..may as well be 1800nm away for the Monsoonal Surge.Useless.I prog some trstrm activity as of early Sat was apprx 1,800+km SSE of Tucson.In Central Mexico with unfavorable Westerlies still prevailing over the Americas del Norte even though it seems a moisture influx is attlempting to set up Campos in Mexcio Centrales Estados.N of the San Luis Potosi Desiertos and S of the Monterrey Plateau.Thats a long way to haul bananas and rainfall.These boomers de Tormetas are reaching good heights just to Windward del Pacifico on the SW Slope of the Central Mx Sierra Madre Montanas.
In English...at least 15-20 days out for any chance and thats IF they make it into the Santa Cruz Valley/TUS. Each pre monsoon season for 9yrs,I point my Kachina Doll I dubbed 'Cheif Thundernuts'toward the Mex Border to SSE.
It seems to work within 10-12 days..I pointed him yesterday..so here goes!'Go Nuts!'
Speaking of enviros..its political and the 9th Circuit Court in SF is thier conduit to play God for the rest of the West..Ah..justice.
Finally yes indeed Steve..I remember Oct 20,1991.The Oakland/Berkeley Firestorm or as we knew it the 'Tunnel Fire' as it started from a lone ember from a small BB-Q backyard fire the previous day...the fire dept mopping up did not expect 65mph easterlies..zero Rh and record temps near 100F.The lone ember blew into a neighboring yard on a steep boxed hillside with Million Dollar homes near Hwy 24 and the entrance to the Caldecott Tunnel...leading from my home in Lafayette/Orinda/Walnut Creek in Contra Costa County to Oakland and the Entrance to the SF/OAK Bay Bridge..a mere 11 miles.
Also,the day prior..an additonal 80,000 Football Fans were crammed into the same area near Strawberry Canyon to watch the final Game..the 'BIG Game' of the Pac-10 season a home game for the Cal Berkeley Golden Bears.Imagine what would or could have happened had 20 hrs not expired?
I remember it well.I was arriving to pick up CJ and the boys at Church in Pleasant Hill and we were to enjoy Sunday Brunch at the Grand Dame of East Bay Hotels,the Aging 'Claremont' in the Berkeley Hills overlooking SF Bay.Interestingly,I saw the smoke rise just as I entered the Church parking lot..looking over the Briones Hills West toward Berkeley.The Claremont by 11:30 that morning was to be the ICS Command Center.Unfortunately,the Man in Chrage of the first Command 'A' Battalion Chief James Riley,Oak Fire Services was killed 3 hrs later along with an Oakland Police officer helping residents flee the Rockridge Place and Chabot Dr areas..their remains were found alongside those others killed while attempting to flee.A Twister made of Flames was viewed near the site when they perished.
The Eucalyptus and Monterey Pines were dropping leaves and needles prematurely after 5 yrs of extreme drought and freeze damage.They were torches that literally exploded.Remember..our resources were already drained from the Loma Prieta 7.1MM Quake just 2 yrs prior.
Here are some statistics some of you may find disturbing.Notice the loss of life,homes destroyed(Urban/Suburban density)dollar loss(1991 dollars)
and yet the fairly small acreage/perimeter.THIS is what an URBAN Fire can do to a city of 450,000 in just 36hrs.
*20-21-22 Oct,1991*Oakland/Berkeley Firestorm 'Tunnel Fire' Conflagration*Stats:
Deaths:25
Injuries:150
Single Family Dwellings Destroyed:2,843
" " " Damaged:193
Apartments Destroyed:433 (From ONE Complex!)
Total Housing Units Damaged/Destroyed:3,469
Acres Consumed:1,520
Fire Perimeter:5.25mi
Est Dollar Loss(1991 Dollars) : $1,537,000,000(yes thats 1.537 'Billion')

It could happen here..you bet Steve.

DJ
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#50 Postby Colin » Sun Jun 22, 2003 11:22 am

Very sad numbers there... this fire has to be contained soon before all heck breaks loose...... I'm sure it already has.............you guys stay safe and please keep us updated if possible! :o
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That Fire Ranked

#51 Postby Aslkahuna » Sun Jun 22, 2003 3:32 pm

as the most damaging wildfire ever up to that time. I believe the Malibu Fire or the other fire in the LAX area a couple of years later may have exceeded it for property damage though casualties were not as high.

About the monsoon. The GFS is indicating that there could be a possible start in the 6-8 July time frame. The moisture boundary is indicated right along the Border by then as the STR lifts northward as the Jet axis finally shifts north and the amplitude of the troughs off the West Coast and along the East Coast lessens. That would be about 14-16 days from now. We'll be watching.

Steve
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Story from Yahoo re: latest fire info

#52 Postby weatherlover427 » Sun Jun 22, 2003 4:46 pm

Arizona Wildfire May Get Easier to Fight
39 minutes ago By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer

SUMMERHAVEN, Ariz. - The uncontrolled wildfire that destroyed more than 250 homes in this mountaintop community moved on a course Sunday that would take it into an area where terrain and lighter vegetation will make it easier to fight, fire officials said.

However, crews didn't know how soon they would be able to attack the fire in that area, and the blaze's growth in other forested areas was still creating difficulties.

"This fire's going to be here for a while and it's going to be very large," said Jeff Whitney, deputy commander of the team battling the fire.

The fire had burned across more than 8,800 acres in the mountains northeast of Tucson and was only about 5 percent contained Sunday. Firefighters don't expect to totally control it for a few weeks.

The blaze was fueled by pine forest ravaged by years of drought and a beetle infestation and driven by wind gusting to 60 mph as it roared through Summerhaven on Thursday. The flames soon spread across the top of 9,157-foot Mount Lemmon and headed down the north slope.

Firefighters focused their efforts Sunday on an area around a University of Arizona observatory and a group of radio and television towers, and a ridge where they hoped to stop the fire before it advanced on scattered homes.

Three towers had already been lost.

Whitney said the fire had charred a half-circle around the observatory. Crews planned to light backfires by Monday to close the circle, depriving the fire of the fuel it would need to move into the observatory complex.

Crews also planned backburns to clear vegetation along the ridge, where they were making a stand between the flames and homes southeast of Summerhaven.

Whitney said officials evacuated a camp that had been scheduled to host 250 people beginning Sunday. The camp was about three miles from the fire's northern edge.

The cause of the fire, which began Tuesday, remained under investigation. Investigators were expected to survey the fire's starting point on Monday.

The community of Summerhaven had about 100 year-round residents but its population grows during the summer and weekends as Tucson residents drive up the mountain to escape the desert heat.
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#53 Postby Arizwx » Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:33 pm

Joshua,
Thx for the AP link..however I believe and so does the writer for AP, IMO, that this this the 'Office of Disinformation','Public Relations Dept of Spin',and 'Pie-In-The-Sky-Islands,-removed-,Inc of Phoenix'.
Basically..if you read it..it's a press release to make the Big Media feel less left out.Truth is..there is some truth..the Observatory was in danger and remains so..the 3 Comm Towers are gone..along with COMMUNICATIONS for a City/Metro EMS dept responsible for 900+thousand ppl.Funny,how they glossed over that.
This is bearuocracy at its worst.
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#54 Postby weatherlover427 » Sun Jun 22, 2003 6:13 pm

NP DJ ... hope you and all others in the path of the fire (well maybe not path but area) stay safe! :o
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#55 Postby azsnowman » Sun Jun 22, 2003 7:37 pm

BAD NEWS...........the town of Oracle was given the order to standby for evacuation..............DJ my friend, let us know what the H*** is going on PLEASE!?!?!?!?!

Dennis
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#56 Postby azsnowman » Sun Jun 22, 2003 7:53 pm

They just showed a live shot from Oracle, the fire is coming down the mountain BIG TIME!!!

Dennis
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#57 Postby Arizwx » Sun Jun 22, 2003 8:00 pm

azsnowman wrote:BAD NEWS...........the town of Oracle was given the order to standby for evacuation..............DJ my friend, let us know what the H*** is going on PLEASE!?!?!?!?!

Dennis


I did..read the 'U Turn' Thread...also San Manuel is in DEEP SH!T at this hour..a group of 3 of us are going out tonight to break up a wider firebreak...the FD only left one 15 feet wide!!!!!!!!!Ash and embers are now falling on homes at the Elementary and High School of San Manuel...my freind has 2 homes there...and there are Elderly and Asthmatic Patients out there..nearest Hospital?Northwest..9 miles to my SW and 45+ from San Manuel..its every man for himself as a local FD Fighter said.He also said..get the hell out!!!

Dennis,contact Bill for my new Cell # if you need it..Thx.I'm gonna go to Church right quick.
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#58 Postby Colin » Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:50 pm

Man, this is really bad... REALLY bad... you guys need to take the necessary precautions now... it's not getting ANY better... I'm scared to dear life for you guys... :o
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