Texas winter weather thread - Cold snap next week

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double D
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#41 Postby double D » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:07 pm

[quote="KatDaddy"]S TX 2004 Snowstorm repeate 8-) . Talk about a pipe dream however that would really be awesome. Hopefully this pattern of sharp troughs and blast of Arctic air will contiue all Winter. The weak El Nino just may provide enough SW flow to bring in moisture just when we need for a TX and LA snowfall. That is what I am hanging my hat on for the rest of the upcoming Winter.[/quote

The funny thing is that the El Nino pattern has not behaved like a typical El nino year so far. Instead of an active southern jet stream it has been more active in the Pacific Northwest. That is why everyone in Texas, but se Texas has been very dry.

Btw, it was interesting to note that local mets were showing rainfall amounts across Texas and while most of the state was between 16-20 inches so far, Houston had recieved 55 inches of rain so far this year.
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#42 Postby JonathanBelles » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:08 pm

it looks like this wave will miss florida looking at the models :cry:
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#43 Postby rsdoug1981 » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:13 pm

Jackson, MS getting a bit serious with a new HWO. Here's a snippet.

A STRONG COLD FRONT IS EXPECTED TO MOVE THROUGH THE REGION
SOMETIME ON THURSDAY. THIS FRONT WILL USHER IN VERY COLD
TEMPERATURES THURSDAY NIGHT AND INTO FRIDAY. AT THIS TIME...RAIN
IS EXPECTED IN ADVANCE OF THE FRONT...BUT THE MAJORITY OF THE
PRECIPITATION LOOKS TO OCCUR BEHIND THE FRONT. IT IS THIS
COMBINATION OF COLD ARCTIC AIR AND POST FRONTAL RAIN THAT MAY BRING A CHANGE OVER OF RAIN TO A WINTRY MIX THURSDAY NIGHT INTO EARLY FRIDAY. IRREGARDLESS OF IF WINTRY PRECIPITATION DOES OR DOES NOT OCCUR...SIGNIFICANT COLD AIR IS STILL EXPECTED OVER THE REGION. MORNING LOWS FRIDAY AND SATURDAY ARE EXPECTED TO BE WELL INTO THE 20S WITH HIGHS IN THE 40S...IF NOT COLDER.

AT THIS TIME...A GOOD DEAL OF UNCERTAINTY EXISTS CONCERNING IF
THERE WILL BE PRECIPITATION OCCURRING WHEN THE FREEZING
TEMPERATURES ARRIVE. EVERYONE IS URGED TO MONITOR THE LATEST
FORECAST DURING THE COMING WEEK CONCERNING THE POTENTIAL FOR WINTRY PRECIPITATION AND SIGNIFICANT COLD AIR.

Now, I'm getting a bit excited; however, I believe they still see this as more of an ice threat than a snow or snow/ice threat as this will be a relatively shallow air mass. It will make for good entertainment this week, though.
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#44 Postby cajungal » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:24 pm

Frozen precipitation usually happens here when there is no mention of it in the forecast. Everytime they mention even the possiblity of the frozen stuff, I get all excited. And nothing ever happens. But, when they barely mention it, then it seems to happen like magic. I still had my doubts about seeing snow on Christmas Day 2004, but it was a miracle. The ingredients have to be perfect for snow to fall as close to the coast as I am. It seems like everytime the temps drop near freezing here, the moisture is already all gone. Timing is everything.
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#45 Postby vbhoutex » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:37 pm

cctxhurricanewatcher wrote:
Portastorm wrote:
P.S. For your entertainment purposes ... south Texas snowstorm anyone? See this link:

http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod ... 6_360m.gif



:sled:

Bring it on!


Yep that would almost do it for sure for frozen precip.
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#46 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:29 pm

Latest Houston NWS forecast still looks too warm, but it is interesting to see they now think the CF will take longer to arrive (Thursday max temps. have been raised):

Thursday: A chance of showers. Cloudy, with a high near 66. Chance of precipitation is 50%.

Thursday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 36.

Friday: Sunny, with a high near 53.

Friday Night: Clear, with a low around 30.

Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 60.

Saturday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 40.

Sunday: Cloudy, with a high near 60.


Victoria, TX is forecasting 49F/29F for Friday though and they are WELL to our SW, so I think the NWS needs to get on board soon. They are still too warm behind the front IMO. Also, Victoria is forecasting 32F Thursday night and Houston is forecasting 36F. I don't think so..
Last edited by Extremeweatherguy on Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#47 Postby cajungal » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:38 pm

Extremeweatherguy wrote:Latest Houston NWS forecast still looks too warm, but it is interesting to see they now think the CF will take longer to arrive (Thursday max temps. have been raised):

Thursday: A chance of showers. Cloudy, with a high near 66. Chance of precipitation is 50%.

Thursday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 37.

Friday: Sunny, with a high near 53.

Friday Night: Clear, with a low around 30.

Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 60.


Victoria, TX is forecasting 49F/29F for Friday though and they are WELL to our SW, so I think the NWS needs to get on board soon. They are still too warm behind the front IMO. Also, Victoria is forecasting 32F Thursday night and Houston is forecasting 37F. I don't think so..


That looks pretty warm and not really cold at all if that verifies. It will only be cold at night and that is it. There will be zero chance of anything frozen if that happens. I still think it is too early in the season right now. The rain/snow line is still showing it as far north as Memphis. Doubt it will be cold enough this far to the south.
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#48 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:41 pm

cajungal wrote:
Extremeweatherguy wrote:Latest Houston NWS forecast still looks too warm, but it is interesting to see they now think the CF will take longer to arrive (Thursday max temps. have been raised):

Thursday: A chance of showers. Cloudy, with a high near 66. Chance of precipitation is 50%.

Thursday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 37.

Friday: Sunny, with a high near 53.

Friday Night: Clear, with a low around 30.

Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 60.


Victoria, TX is forecasting 49F/29F for Friday though and they are WELL to our SW, so I think the NWS needs to get on board soon. They are still too warm behind the front IMO. Also, Victoria is forecasting 32F Thursday night and Houston is forecasting 37F. I don't think so..


That looks pretty warm and not really cold at all if that verifies. It will only be cold at night and that is it. There will be zero chance of anything frozen if that happens. I still think it is too early in the season right now. The rain/snow line is still showing it as far north as Memphis. Doubt it will be cold enough this far to the south.
The thing is...I have no idea what the Houston NWS is seeing. This is a dense arctic airmass we are talking about, not a weak polar airmass. Highs in the 40s should at least be on the board...not 50s. I am just baffled (especially since places to my SOUTH are forecasting colder). These forecasts are also not in line with the GFS at all really. I guess the NWS offices are just ignoring it right now?
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#49 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:45 pm

Austin and the area just SE of Waco both have forecasts of temperatures near or below 32F with showers on Thursday night. hmm..
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#50 Postby double D » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:56 pm

Extremeweatherguy wrote:Latest Houston NWS forecast still looks too warm, but it is interesting to see they now think the CF will take longer to arrive (Thursday max temps. have been raised):

Thursday: A chance of showers. Cloudy, with a high near 66. Chance of precipitation is 50%.

Thursday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 36.

Friday: Sunny, with a high near 53.

Friday Night: Clear, with a low around 30.

Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 60.


Victoria, TX is forecasting 49F/29F for Friday though and they are WELL to our SW, so I think the NWS needs to get on board soon. They are still too warm behind the front IMO. Also, Victoria is forecasting 32F Thursday night and Houston is forecasting 36F. I don't think so..


Hmm.. San Angelo thinks the front will come in a lot faster and thinks the models are way too slow bringing in the front. It will be interesting to see who is right.

Also they think the temperatures could even drop on Thursday afternoon. They must really think this cold means business.

.LONG TERM...
COLDEST AIR SO FAR THIS WINTER STILL LOOKS ON TRACK FOR MID WEEK.
TAKING A LOOK AT CURRENT TEMPS UP ACROSS THE YUKON AND ALASKA
CONTINUES TO SHOW TEMPERATURES IN THE -30 TO -50 RANGE...ALONG WITH
SURFACE PRESSURES ABOVE 1050 MB. FIRST SURGE OF ARCTIC AIR DROPPING
THROUGH THE FRONT RANGE INTO WESTERN KANSAS...WHERE TEMPS ARE IN
THE MID 30S. THIS IS A VERY SHALLOW AIR MASS AND MODELS CONTINUE
TO STRUGGLE WITH ITS MOVEMENT...WITH DENSITY ALONE DRIVING IT AS
MUCH AS ANYTHING ELSE. STILL...THINK THIS INITIAL SURGE WILL
EVENTUALLY FALTER...AND WILL WAIT FOR A SECONDARY DEEPER SURGE TO
CATCH UP WITH IT ON TUESDAY. ONCE THIS HAPPENS...FRONT WILL FLY
SOUTHWARD.

GIVEN HOW POORLY THE MODELS HANDLE THIS SHALLOW AIR MASSES...STILL
PRETTY CONTENT TO BRING THE FRONT THROUGH A LITTLE AHEAD OF THE
MODELS...SOMETIME ON WEDNESDAY
. HOWEVER...WEDNESDAY FORECAST HIGH
CONFIDENCE IS LOW...AND EVEN A FEW HOURS IN CHANGE OF THE TIMING
WILL HAVE SIGNIFICANT EFFECTS ON CONDITIONS.

THURSDAY WILL BE COLD AND RAW. GIVEN CONTINUED COLD ADVECTION...850
MB TEMPS DROPPING INTO THE -6 TO -10 RANGE...AND CLOUD COVER...TEMPERATURES
WILL HAVE A VERY HARD TIME CLIMBING AT ALL. IN FACT...THINK HIGHS
MAY WILL BE SET IN THE MORNING...WITH TEMPS A FEW DEGREES COLDER
BY AFTERNOON.

NOW FOR THE WINTRY PRECIPITATION CHANCES ON THURSDAY. MODELS HAVE
CONTINUED TO STRENGTHEN THE SHORTWAVE ROTATING THROUGH THE TROUGH
AND ACROSS THE SOUTHERN PLAINS ON THURSDAY. VERY LOWEST LEVELS MAY
END UP DRY...BUT WITH DECENT LIFT ABOVE IT FROM THE WAVE AND FROM
THE RIGHT READ QUAD OF THE JET...GETTING SOME SORT OF
PRECIPITATION DOWN FROM THE MID LEVELS TO THE GROUND LOOKS
POSSIBLE. GIVEN MODEL SOUNDINGS SHOWING A WARM TONGUE IN THE 850
TO 700 MB LAYER...LOOKS LIKE A LIGHT RAIN OR LIGHT FREEZING RAIN
SET-UP. FOR RIGHT NOW...AND GIVEN ALL OF THE UNCERTAINTY...WILL
RUN WITH CHANCE POPS AREAWIDE ON THURSDAY...BUT ONLY MENTION ANY
WINTRY PRECIP MIXING IN ACROSS THE BIG COUNTRY. HOWEVER...THIS MAY
CHANGE CONSIDERABLY AS THE DEPTH OF THE COLD AIR BECOMES MORE
CERTAIN. AT THIS POINT...PRECIP LOOKS LIGHT...AND WITH THE WARM
CONDITIONS FROM THE LAST FEW WEEKS...GETTING ANYTHING TO STICK TO
THE GROUND OR AREA ROADWAYS WILL BE TOUGH.

IN ANY CASE...THIS ENTIRE SITUATION WILL NEED TO BE CLOSELY
MONITORED. HAVE UPDATED THE SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT AND THE WEB
BRIEFING FOR THE LATEST DETAILS.

&&

.PRELIMINARY POINT TEMPS/POPS...
ABILENE 60 74 61 78 / 10 10 10 10
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#51 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:57 pm

Houston AFD:

.DISCUSSION...FAIRLY PROGRESSIVE WEATHER PATTERN DEVELOPING
ACROSS THE UNITED STATES TONIGHT INTO MONDAY AS A 500MB TROUGH
OVER THE WESTERN U.S. CONTINUES TO DEEPEN ALLOWING A SIGNIFICANT
FRONTAL SYSTEM TO DEVELOP ACROSS THE NORTHERN ROCKIES AND MOVE INTO THE
NORTHERN AND CENTRAL PLAINS TUESDAY. LOW TO MID LEVEL MOISTURE IS
EXPECTED TO INCREASE AHEAD OF THE TROUGH AND THE RIGHT REAR
QUADRANT OF A 200MB JET IS PROGGED TO MOVE ACROSS NORTHEAST TEXAS
TUESDAY PROVIDING FAVORABLE Q-VECTOR CONVERGENCE ACROSS SOUTHEAST
TX. WITH THAT SAID...WILL KEEP A CHANCE OF SHOWERS TUES AFTERNOON
BUT WILL LOWER POPS MONDAY AS STILL DO NOT SEE ANY MAIN FOCUS FOR
LOW LEVEL CONVERGENCE. RAIN CHANCES ARE EXPECTED TO INCREASE
WEDNESDAY INTO THURSDAY AS THE TROUGH MOVES EASTWARD BRINGING A
POLAR AIRMASS ACROSS WESTERN CANADA INTO THE CENTRAL PLAINS.
MODELS CONTINUE TO SLOW DOWN THE PASSAGE OF THE STRONG COLD FRONT
AHEAD OF THE TROUGH AND THE 12Z GFS PROGS THE FRONT MOVING THROUGH
THE CWA EARLY THURSDAY AFTERNOON. WILL ADJUST HIGHEST POPS UNTIL
EARLY THURSDAY AND KEEP CLOUD COVER INTO THURS AFTERNOON. RAIN
CHANCES AS WELL AS CLOUD COVER SHOULD LINGER ACROSS THE COASTAL
SECTIONS OF SOUTHEAST TX THURS AFTERNOON INTO EARLY THURS EVENING.
WILL LIKELY SEE HIGH TEMPERATURES THURSDAY EARLY WITH TEMPERATURES
FALLING IN THE AFTERNOON. STILL BELIEVE NORTHERN PORTIONS OF THE
CWA WILL POSSIBLY SEE FREEZING TEMPERATURES LATE THURSDAY AS
STRONG COLD AIR ADVECTION IN COMBINATION WITH CLEARING SKIES FROM
THE NORTH WILL ALLOW TEMPERATURES TO CONTINUE TO FALL TO FREEZING
LEVELS. BEST CHANCE OF WIDESPREAD FREEZING TEMPERATURES ACROSS
SOUTHEAST TX CONTINUES TO BE FRIDAY NIGHT WITH CLEAR SKIES AND
CALM WINDS ALLOWING MAXIMUM POTENTIAL OF RADIATIONAL COOLING. ONLY
OTHER SIGNIFICANT CHANGE APPEARS TO BE A RETURN OF CLOUDS AND
POSSIBLY LIGHT RAIN TOWARDS THE END OF THE PERIOD AS THE GFS PROGS
A COASTAL TROUGH DEVELOPING ACROSS THE WESTERN GULF OF MEXICO
SATURDAY NIGHT. WILL INCREASE CLOUD COVER SUNDAY WITH OVERRUNNING
DEVELOPING BUT WILL KEEP RAIN CHANCES LOW AND ACROSS EXTREME
SOUTHWEST PORTIONS OF THE CWA FOR NOW.
32


I think lots of people will be surprised Thursday evening when they quickly have to change the forecast due to much colder air coming into the area. We shall see what really happens (as I may be wrong), but for now I believe they bust. I am still going with JBs call of 26-32F with wind Friday morning along the I-10 corridor and I am still also going with the GFS' call of highs in the 40s on Friday and lows in the 20s Saturday morning. A strong high pressure dropping south and brutal cold air in western canada do not equal highs in the low to mid 50s for SE Texas.
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#52 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:00 pm

Also, Victoria, TX is mentioning a possible "High Wind Warning" down there for Thursday. I wonder if that will translate up the coast to our area too?

BTW, Compare Houston's Forecast:

Thursday: A chance of showers. Cloudy, with a high near 66. Chance of precipitation is 50%.

Thursday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 36.

Friday: Sunny, with a high near 53.

Friday Night: Clear, with a low around 30.

Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 60.

Saturday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 40.

Sunday: Cloudy, with a high near 60.


With Victoria's:

Thursday: A 40 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 79. Light wind becoming north northwest between 21 and 24 mph.

Thursday Night: Mostly cloudy, with a low around 32. Windy, with a north wind 26 to 29 mph decreasing to between 11 and 14 mph. Winds could gust as high as 36 mph.

Friday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 49.

Friday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 29.

Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 58.

Saturday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 38.

Sunday: A 20 percent chance of rain. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 50.


Doesn't quite make sense does it?
Last edited by Extremeweatherguy on Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#53 Postby double D » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:12 pm

San Antonio/Austin NWS has Fredericksburg at 50 for Thursday and 40 miles north San Angelo NWS has Mason at 41 (maybe even falling during the afternoon) for a high. Someone is going to bust on those temperatures that day.
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#54 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:23 pm

snow near the Dallas area???

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE FORT WORTH TX
407 PM CST SUN NOV 26 2006

.DISCUSSION...
WARM WEATHER WILL CONTINUE THROUGH MIDWEEK AS LOW LEVEL SOUTHERLY FLOW
PREVAILS ACROSS THE REGION. LOW CLOUDS AND PATCHY FOG WILL DEVELOP
ONCE AGAIN TONIGHT. WE WILL SEE A CHANCE OF SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS
MONDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY AHEAD OF THE APPROACHING UPPER LEVEL TROUGH.
A STRONG ARCTIC COLD FRONT IS PROGGED TO SWEEP SOUTH INTO NORTH
TEXAS WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON AND NIGHT...BRINGING THE COLDEST WEATHER
SO FAR THIS SEASON. THE TIMING OF THE SYSTEM IS STILL NOT SETTLED...AND
WILL HAVE A BIG IMPACT ON TEMPERATURES. MOREOVER...THE GFS IS KEEPING
PRECIPITATION OVER NORTH TEXAS INTO THURSDAY NIGHT. BY 18Z THURSDAY...
THE 12Z RUN OF THE GFS BRINGS THE SURFACE 32F LINE FROM PARIS TO
JUST SOUTH OF DFW...TO BROWNWOOD. THE 18Z FORECAST SOUNDING AT DFW
SHOWS TEMPERATURES BELOW FREEZING FROM THE SURFACE TO 850 MB...WITH
A WARM NOSE ABOVE 850 MB THROUGH 700 MB. HAVE NOT TOTALLY BITTEN
OFF ON THIS. BUT HAVE ADDED FREEZING RAIN ACROSS THE NORTHWESTERN
SECTIONS THURSDAY MORNING..RAIN OR SNOW ACROSS THE NORTHERN
QUARTER THURSDAY AFTERNOON... AND RAIN OR SNOW ACROSS THE TWO
NORTHERN TIERS ON COUNTIES THURSDAY EVENING
. CONFIDENCE IS NOT
VERY HIGH AT THIS POINT...BUT FOUND IT DIFFICULT TO JUST IGNORE.

IT WILL DRY OUT FRIDAY...AND THE ARCTIC AIRMASS WILL HOLD IN INTO
THE WEEKEND...THOUGH WE WILL SEE MODERATING TEMPERATURES BY
SUNDAY. #58


BTW, the 18Z GFS continues to show winter precip. behind the front. In fact, it even still brings it all the way to SE Texas. Amazing to see such consistancy of winter weather this early in the year!
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#55 Postby double D » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:42 pm

What is interesting about that run is that the 18z GFS shows a weaker high sliding down the rockies but the 850 thickness line comes further south into Texas. I wonder why that is?
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#56 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:42 pm

18Z GFS temperatures for Houston:

Thursday afternoon = 81F ~ Hot with storms and winter weather to our NW.

Thursday evening = 41F ~ Cold rain, mixing with sleet to our NW.

Friday morning (daybreak) = 29F ~ snow and sleet showers in area.

Friday afternoon = 45F ~ Clear and cold.

Friday evening = 36F ~ Clear and cold.

Saturday morning (daybreak) = 28F ~ Clear and cold.

What is most amazing is the 40F temperature drop within 6 hours on Thursday! Talk about a true blue norther! We would be going from a hot 81F, to a cold and raw 41F with rain, possible sleet, and high winds gusting to 30-40mph!
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#57 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:51 pm

double D wrote:What is interesting about that run is that the 18z GFS shows a weaker high sliding down the rockies but the 850 thickness line comes further south into Texas. I wonder why that is?


The main issue with the models right now seems to be the strength of the high pressure. Currently the high pressure in NW Canada (according to the HPC) is about 1054mb. That is strong! I think the models are just having a really hard time with knowing what will happen with it and they can not even initialize it correctly.

For instance, the new 18Z GFS has messed up already with it. It currently has the high as 1046mb (as it's "initial" strength), but as we know...this is 8mb too weak. Once these models can initialize it correctly, then I think they have a better chance of being accurate.

Here is the map from the HPC depicting the high at 1054mb currently:
http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/sfc/90fwbg.gif

And here is the 18Z GFS initializing it at 1046mb:
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod ... n_000m.gif

And here is the 18Z NAM initializing it at 1044mb (10mb too weak):
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod ... p_000m.gif

That small 8-10mb difference in strength can mean A LOT when it comes to the strength and southward extent of the cold air. I think this may be why the models and NWS offices are having problems with this.

BTW: I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that the Dec. 1989 high was about 1056mb.
Last edited by Extremeweatherguy on Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#58 Postby double D » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:08 pm

Thank you EWG. That would explain alot. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they only update current information on the 0z and 12z models so maybe thats why the 18z seems to have problems.
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#59 Postby Portastorm » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:18 pm

From the looks of the forecast tonight from NWSFO Austin/San Antonio, looks like they are being conservative on temps and precip as they probably should. To their credit, we still have a day or two to nail it down ... however, they also are notorious for having to undercut temps close to the cold front event.
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#60 Postby Portastorm » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:26 pm

double D wrote:San Antonio/Austin NWS has Fredericksburg at 50 for Thursday and 40 miles north San Angelo NWS has Mason at 41 (maybe even falling during the afternoon) for a high. Someone is going to bust on those temperatures that day.


For this weather weenie, my money's on San Angelo for forecasting winter weather. But, I know I'm hard on the local boys. :lol:
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