El Nino and winter

Winter Weather Discussion

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Portastorm
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#41 Postby Portastorm » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:51 am

cctxhurricanewatcher wrote:
Portastorm wrote:Just think EWG ... it'll be about 10 more weeks and then we can start debating winter weather events! :lol:


Not to mention will be hanging our wishes on every run of the GFS. :roll: :lol:


Oh yes, CC ... we'll argue and debate every GFS run ... we'll grumble about the lack of old-time expertise from Texas NWS forecasters in discerning possible arctic outbreaks ... we'll hear how the European model is far superior to all others with winter forecasting ... EWG will predict several ice storms for Houston ... Air Force Met (if he ever comes back) and Wxman57 will try and calm all of us down ... yeah ... it'll be fun! :lol:
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#42 Postby bob rulz » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:30 pm

cctxhurricanewatcher wrote:It's a boiling pot out there and we on the Gulf Coast have been extremely lucky we didn't get a Huricanne in that water this year. It would have been nasty with all that fuel out there.


Don't jinx it! :lol:
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#43 Postby WeatherWiseGuy » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:15 am

What do you mean if Air Force Met ever comes back? Where did he go?
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#44 Postby Portastorm » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:07 am

WeatherWiseGuy wrote:What do you mean if Air Force Met ever comes back? Where did he go?


During the whole Ernesto debacle ... when everyone and their brother thought they had an idea on where the storm was going and why ... AFM was trying to be a voice of reason and was sharing his meteorological expertise only to be treated rudely by some. He eventually got frustrated, I think, and haven't seen him since.

At least this is my understanding ...
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#45 Postby cctxhurricanewatcher » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:48 pm

Portastorm wrote:
WeatherWiseGuy wrote:What do you mean if Air Force Met ever comes back? Where did he go?


During the whole Ernesto debacle ... when everyone and their brother thought they had an idea on where the storm was going and why ... AFM was trying to be a voice of reason and was sharing his meteorological expertise only to be treated rudely by some. He eventually got frustrated, I think, and haven't seen him since.

At least this is my understanding ...


AFM has been the voice of reason in a bunch of weather events. Hoepfull he'll come back.
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#46 Postby WeatherWiseGuy » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:01 pm

I fear that sometimes when we are safely ensconsed behind our own little computer, it's easy to forget those are real people with feelings we are typing messages to.
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#47 Postby JBG » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:45 pm

Is this expected to be a QBO West or East event?
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#48 Postby Mezocyclone » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:05 am

The lack of activity in the Atlantic might be a cause for the disinterest as well...
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#49 Postby Jim Cantore » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:59 pm

No pattern here for El Nino and winter

1997-1998 it snowed once
2002-2003 was one of the most brutal winters in recent memory.
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#50 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:29 pm

Category 5 wrote:No pattern here for El Nino and winter

1997-1998 it snowed once
2002-2003 was one of the most brutal winters in recent memory.
I think the difference was 97-98 was during a strong El Nino, and 02-03 was during a weak one.

The weaker they are, the greater the chance of extreme cold.
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#51 Postby Jim Cantore » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:26 pm

Well, this is a mild El Nino they are predicting, hopefully we get another 02-03, I love blizzards.
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#52 Postby JBG » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:10 pm

Category 5 wrote:No pattern here for El Nino and winter

1997-1998 it snowed once
2002-2003 was one of the most brutal winters in recent memory.

El Nino with west QBO's tend to be snowy. 1997-8 was an exception because it was so strong that the storms either were pulled to the "left" or inland of the Coast, putting the I-95 belt on the "warm side" of the storms (the famous upstate NY-Quebec Ice Storm of Jan. 1998) or were accompanied by so much warmth that the precipitation was mostly rain. 1982-3 was also a Super El Nino with West QBO, but it did feature the Megalopolis Blizzard of February 11-12.

QBO East El Ninos tend to be "unsnowy". Examples include 1972-73 (the unsnowiest winter since NYC kept records) and I believe 1990-1 and 1991-2. 1968-9 was an exception, with a major December storm and the so-called "Mayor Lindsay" blizzard of February. In the latter storm, as well as 1972-3's only storm, NYC was on the rain-snow line, and what snow fell had a very high water content. In general, though, weak El Ninos tend to be snowy, since the favorable storm track (up the coast) is combined with relatively small additions of warm air, whereas strong El Ninos tend to come with a large dose of unwelcome warm air during the storms. The inter-storm periods can be quite cold (i.e. 1972-3) but the cold air is driven away by the storm (often with a little help from weak NAO blocking).

Stron La Ninas also tend to be "snowstorm killers" since the ridging from the US Southeast tneds to import warmth. Weak La Ninas on the other hand often feature snowstorms from the "Alberta Clipper" track depressed an exagerrated amount south (often with a little help from strong NAO blocking). An example of this was Raleigh, NC's 20 inches of snow on or about January 26, 2000, and extensive snow cover almost to the NC coast, and all the way up through Canada (one of the most extensive US snow covers ever).
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#53 Postby NoreasterJer06 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:10 am

I think the state of the NAO is much more important than the state of the ENSO, weak and even moderate El Nino's are good news for snow lovers, when combined with a negative NAO... And as said above even is a strong El Nino blizzards are possibe just like in 83'... So look to the NAO my friends thats all I can say, it holds the key to our winter and what it may hold...

On a side note I will be posting a full winter outlook in the coming days based on research done for several weeks... It will be thurough, and for anyone in southeast PA check out my site for winter forecasting http://Berkswintercast.tripod.com this will be the 5th year of doing the site, At present the archives from last years storms and historical storms are up along with some very preliminary maps for this cominmg winter... The winter outlook will be posted here as well within a week, 2 at max.
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#54 Postby CaptinCrunch » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:48 pm

All areas increase heading into November, Moderate El Nino still the best bet.

nino 1&2 went from 1.4 to 1.5
nino 3 went from 1.1 to 1.2
nino 3.4 went from .9 to 1.0
nino 4 went from 1.1 to 1.2
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#55 Postby WhiteShirt » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:56 pm

CaptinCrunch wrote:All areas increase heading into November, Moderate El Nino still the best bet.

nino 1&2 went from 1.4 to 1.5
nino 3 went from 1.1 to 1.2
nino 3.4 went from .9 to 1.0
nino 4 went from 1.1 to 1.2


What does this mean? Thanks.
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#56 Postby Portastorm » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:48 am

WhiteShirt wrote:
CaptinCrunch wrote:All areas increase heading into November, Moderate El Nino still the best bet.

nino 1&2 went from 1.4 to 1.5
nino 3 went from 1.1 to 1.2
nino 3.4 went from .9 to 1.0
nino 4 went from 1.1 to 1.2


What does this mean? Thanks.


The answer to your question kinda depends on where in the USA you live. Generally, this means that an active storm pattern over the southern US will keep us wet this winter ... and probably cooler than average.
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#57 Postby WhiteShirt » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:59 am

Portastorm wrote:
WhiteShirt wrote:
CaptinCrunch wrote:All areas increase heading into November, Moderate El Nino still the best bet.

nino 1&2 went from 1.4 to 1.5
nino 3 went from 1.1 to 1.2
nino 3.4 went from .9 to 1.0
nino 4 went from 1.1 to 1.2


What does this mean? Thanks.


The answer to your question kinda depends on where in the USA you live. Generally, this means that an active storm pattern over the southern US will keep us wet this winter ... and probably cooler than average.


I'm in the Houston area.
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#58 Postby Portastorm » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:30 am

Houston?

With a moderate El Nino in Region 3.4 (which tends to affect Texas weather) ... look for more storminess, rain, etc. But that is a very generic description for something fairly complicated.
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#59 Postby JBG » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:38 pm

Category 5 wrote:Well, this is a mild El Nino they are predicting, hopefully we get another 02-03, I love blizzards.


Does anyone know if the QBO is East or West? That makes a huge difference in the frequency of El Nino snowstorms in the I-95 belt.
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#60 Postby CaptinCrunch » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:53 am

very nice drop in sst regions
nino 1&2 went from 1.5 to 1.1
nino 3 went from 1.2 to 1.0
nino 3.4 stayed the same at 1.0
nino 4 went from 1.2 to 1.1

I took a look at El-Nino going through November 1st and it looked like it was simply reorganizing, but not weakening. This is typical of this time of year for El-Nino.
There will be an El-Nino with out doubt. The question out is will it be weak or moderate.
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