Major Terror plot foiled against U.K.-U.S. bound flights

[brunota2003]

You can't talk about Iraq polls here weatherFrEaK.

i'm not talking about iraq polls here. a member asked for sources so i obliged.

i posted a link so anyone with free will can go and look and see where the heart of america is.

I thank you for that, however will note that most of that has to do with the war in Iraq however a little bit is terrorism

[weatherFrEaK]

ask yourself just how many more years, decades, or centuries does america want to live with the THREATENING of terror and terrorism? will ruling by FEAR ever end? is this what you want for your children? goodnight.

[The Sandcrab]

Janice, Brit authorities believe up to 50 were involved. 24 were arrested, including at least 1 w/an all access pass at Heathrow. They think they have the major players, but not the ringleader, believed to be in Pakistan. 2 in custody met w/an al-Qaeda operative. The ISI, Pakistan's security agency with a checkered past, to say the least, tipped off the Brits.

the list of "no fly" items before 8/10/06:
http://www.tys.org/Prohibited_English_4-1-2005_v2.pdf

You don't have to be MacGyver to figure out ways to raise holy hell on a transoceanic flight using none of the items listed. I am reminded of a legal case I read about a dude who accidentally dropped a lit match in the waistband of his pants and turned his Brut 33 drenched self into a mini fireball. At 30K feet, a cabin fire or fires is as lethal as blowing a hole in the cabin. The tobacco folks kept lighters off the list until last year, and you can still have matches. (notwithstanding today's "new" rules, which likely won't last) Not to mention cleverly concealing some that are on the list, eg, making chlorine gas from stuff most of us have under the kitchen sink. It's not exactly reassuring that the "Red Team" regularly gets guns, etc, past the subsistence wage-earning TSA screeners.

My point is that what will save us, the only thing that can, is human intel before the (*^%@#$%s ever get to the airport.

A pilot's take on airline security and "Bojinka II":
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/08/10/bomb/

[zoeyann]

Well I like having my children ALIVE. Took quite a bit of effort to get them into this world therefore I teach them things like not to play with matches. There is a difference between bravery and stupidity. Knowing there is a threat and not taking action to protect themselves is stupid not brave. And this momma isn't raising fools.

[ohiostorm]

I woke up this morning and had an email saying the threat level was raised for airlines. So I jumped on CNN to see the disturbing news. Being I work at an airport, I immediately thought the day was going to be very rough. By the time I got to work, things had calmed down alot. Still the whole no liquids on planes thing is a bit rediculous but what can we do.

[Regit]

I'm glad that the group appears now to actually have been infiltrated, rather than just found out on a tip from an informant inside the group.

Anytime a plot is exposed by a fink, it shows that we just got lucky and that it could happen next time if they get a more loyal group.


This does also prove that terrorists are getting smarter, though. I wonder when they're going to figure out that if they really want to ruin America, they should attack shopping malls on the day after Thanksgiving.

[Audrey2Katrina]

posted a link so anyone with free will can go and look and see where the heart of america is.

I believe the point should be that where the so-called "heart" of America is in reference to the Iraq war is not relevant to this particular discussion about a thwarted terrorist attempt..polls do not reflect the "heart" of America... they reflect a particular response to a particular question given the manner in which it is presented/asked.... a lot of variables there--but I won't go any further into it than that for obvious reasons. At least that's the way I see it--and frankly IMHO, it doesn't really apply here as it borders closely to getting off topic and into the political realm. Again, MHO, FWIW.

A2K

[Audrey2Katrina]

I wonder when they're going to figure out that if they really want to ruin America, they should attack shopping malls on the day after Thanksgiving.

Don't think for a minute they aren't aware of this potential--although I suspect your statement was probably tongue-in cheek. I also agree that intel which can help us know who the perps are before any act of terror can be put into execution, is undoubtedly the "most" effective manner in securing a measured degree of safety. That said, I see nothing wrong with taking some "inconvenient" steps that in all likelihood may not make a difference--but are worth the effort if they stop/prevent or discourage even one terrorist attempt.

A2K

[Derek Ortt]

what good is freedom, if we are dead?

something for some to think about

[Regit]

I wonder when they're going to figure out that if they really want to ruin America, they should attack shopping malls on the day after Thanksgiving.

Don't think for a minute they aren't aware of this potential--although I suspect your statement was probably tongue-in cheek. I also agree that intel which can help us know who the perps are before any act of terror can be put into execution, is undoubtedly the "most" effective manner in securing a measured degree of safety. That said, I see nothing wrong with taking some "inconvenient" steps that in all likelihood may not make a difference--but are worth the effort if they stop/prevent or discourage even one terrorist attempt.

A2K

It wasn't really tongue-in-cheek. I think such an attack could throw this country into a depression. The quickest way you bring down America (or any country) is to stop the flow of money. Granted, this would have to be a major attack, and would have to happen in both small and large cities. But such an attack would cripple the US economy. It would be temporary, but it's the closest they could ever actually come to winning.

[kevin]

what good is freedom, if we are dead?

something for some to think about

What good is being alive if we aren't free?

Maybe it sounds silly, but its one of the only thoughts that works for progress and decency in the world.

[Janice]

Maybe this attack plan in the UK is just the iceberg. They have not rounded up all the terrorists, there could be hundreds in this plot. If these people are willing to die for their cause, does it matter that they get caught. Maybe it is a cover while they are plotting the really big one. Some of these terrorists worked at the airport. Who knows who else is working there or what they put in there before they were caught.
I believe that the US and the UK know a lot more than they are telling us. They have not lifted the airport code alert this morning. I think they are worried about those who they did not catch.

[Janice]

And talking about the economic side, think of the money lost from the stores and Duty Free shops. No selling of perfumes and wines, etc. Booze..... they sell so much of that stuff at the airports, it will really be a big lose for those businesses.
Another terrorist victory.

[Cookiely]

I'm glad that the group appears now to actually have been infiltrated, rather than just found out on a tip from an informant inside the group.

Anytime a plot is exposed by a fink, it shows that we just got lucky and that it could happen next time if they get a more loyal group.


This does also prove that terrorists are getting smarter, though. I wonder when they're going to figure out that if they really want to ruin America, they should attack shopping malls on the day after Thanksgiving.

We have to THANK the neighbors who originally called to report the suspicious activity that led them to infiltrate the group. Everyone needs to be vigilant.

[x-y-no]

And talking about the economic side, think of the money lost from the stores and Duty Free shops. No selling of perfumes and wines, etc. Booze..... they sell so much of that stuff at the airports, it will really be a big lose for those businesses.
Another terrorist victory.

Since all of the duty free stuff comes out of bonded warehouses and is delivered inside the controlled area, I don't understand why that can't continue. There's no security threat there.

[Janice]

It is what they can put inside those perfume bottles and booze bottles that is the problem. They can purchase them, take them into the bathrooms and put chemicals, etc. in them. Then take them onboard. I am sure they can still sneak chemicals inside. Remember, some of the terrorists worked at the airports. They could have already planted stuff inside the airport bathrooms, etc.

[x-y-no]

It is what they can put inside those perfume bottles and booze bottles that is the problem. They can purchase them, take them into the bathrooms and put chemicals, etc. in them. Then take them onboard.

Well, I don't want to get into any detail, but a lot of these security measures are really for show anyway. If the objective is to smuggle aboard somewhere between 8 and 16 fluid ounces of stabilized nitroglycerin and a detonation device which can be assembled on board, I can think of a number of ways to do it which I'm quite certain would circumvent the security measures in place.

I'm sure some of the military members with some experience in the properties of explosives can do the same.

Suffice it to say that once you've got the materials past secutiry, it hardly matters if you put them into a perfume bottle or detonate them in the package you brought them in.

[P.K.]

And talking about the economic side, think of the money lost from the stores and Duty Free shops.

They've been saying £175m lost by the airlines, £20m in tourism lost from just yesterday, and £10m lost by other businesses. Still its better than all those people losing their lives.

[Janice]

You got that right..... the saving of lives is the number one objective.

[gtalum]

The problem is, as has been demonstrated by several of us, these procedures do nothing to save lives. It is good intelligence that saves lives, as evidenced by this foiled plot.

I'm all for security procedures that accomplish the goal of saving lives. This one, as the rest of them, will not do so. Someone determined to get liquid expoosives onboard will still do so. Meanwhile we're all inconvenienced and worse for nothing.