Global warming is a hoax, says Dr. Gray

[Trugunzn]

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.c ... g+skeptics

What do u think about him? Do u think its true?

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Might be. But the Co2 levels have went up at least 80 points over the last 150 years. The difference between the warm period that fellowed the last ice age and the warm period of 1,000 years ago was about 70 points. Kind of scarely.

[P.K.]

I have to disagree with what he is saying and some of the things he said on Talkin' Tropics a while back.

By the way

The skeptics point to the global-temperature graph for the past century. Notice how, after rising steadily in the early 20th century, in 1940 the temperature suddenly levels off. No — it goes down! For the next 35 years! If the planet is getting steadily warmer because of Industrial Age greenhouse gases, why did it get cooler when industries began belching out carbon dioxide at full tilt at the start of World War II?

is explained in the IPCC TAR so this is an odd thing to say.

[kenl01]

100 percent correct. Here we are with falling sea levels in the Indian and Pacific Oceans, growing glaciers in most high altitude locations and growing Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets and heavier snows (in many areas the heaviest in over a century), and these people in the media keep screaming about the greatest fraud in history ever invented since the late 70's about global warming. It is absolutely absurd. They couldn't be more wrong.

Well, I'm glad that Gary Gray understands all this. I've known this since 1992 that it was a fraud.

Furthermore, I have absolute discontent for those that continue to preach about all this false information and lies on human climate change. It does not exist and if anything, we need to worry about another ice age since this cycle is already overdue.

It's common sense ! I knew it all along. None of these people could EVER convince me about any of these lies on GW - no matter what they say or where it comes from.


Another interesting article recently was written by Joe Aleo about snowfall being on the increase:

Snowfall on the increase, says Joe Aleo, chief meteorologist:

The 5 year average snow across the hemisphere has increased each year for the last 7 years. Eurasia especially has experienced large snowfall increases. In fact this past January and the five year January average snowfall were both the greatest on record (since 1967). Winter levels of ice and snow across many parts of the hemisphere are higher than they have been in many years and in some places in over a century.


http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=060206D

Snow is a product of cold temperatures.

Global cooling huh ??

Thanks Joe !

Ken

[x-y-no]

No, sea levels aren't falling.

No, "most" high-altitude glaciers aren't growing. (oh, I don't know ... there may be some arbitrary small altitude band in which they're growing, but worldwide glaciers are shrinking dramatically)

Yes, the interiors of both Greenland and East Antarctica are thickening, but the perimiters are thinning and best measurements indicate a net mass loss. Thickening of the interiors is predicted by GCMs in a warmer climate due to increased moisture resulting in increased precipitation.

And no, more snow does not neccesarily mean colder temps. Or are you going to claim that Antarctica gets more snow than the mountains of California? Or maybe you're going to claim that California is colder than Antarctica? Once one is somewhat below freezing, the most important issue for snow is water vapor. And in a warmer climate, you get more water vapor in the atmosphere.




I've debunked this nonsense for you multiple times. That you continue to repeat it doesn't reflect well on your interest in truth.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Truthfully the sun is 70 percent stronger then it was one billion years ago. I read this...It says that the sun energy is growing hotter has it burns its energy in turns it to heavyer parels/Atoms. Which is starting to expand the sun=red giant in 1 to 5 billion years. Also it says that the earth will be nearly a dead planet with most of the planet becoming desert with in 100 million years. No wonder the earth is warming there is no quastion what is going on its the sun.

Also it is true that there is more Co2 over the last 100 years then any time with in history. The thing is its going up at a rate that is amazing. Also as the sun heats up more water vapor moves into the Atmoshere...In water vapor is a even more stronger green house gase then Co2. Which will warm the planet even more. With less trees taking up the Co2=more Co2...

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

100 percent correct. Here we are with falling sea levels in the Indian and Pacific Oceans, growing glaciers in most high altitude locations and growing Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets and heavier snows (in many areas the heaviest in over a century), and these people in the media keep screaming about the greatest fraud in history ever invented since the late 70's about global warming. It is absolutely absurd. They couldn't be more wrong.


...I would think with a warming ocean/Atmosphere would equal more moisutre which would help the glaciers grow...But the middle lat glaciers like the ones around the 0 to 40 north/south line to melt as temperatures get to warm to support them. Area's like Antartic or the Greenland should not be melting but growing if global warming is in fact true...Why Because warming Atmosphere or oceans=more water vapor which makes more snow. Yes the chances for melting durning the summer increases but have we really past the time when the extra moisture doe's not out pace that?....

Well, I'm glad that Gary Gray understands all this. I've known this since 1992 that it was a fraud.

...Maybe read about my thinking on the sun...

Furthermore, I have absolute discontent for those that continue to preach about all this false information and lies on human climate change. It does not exist and if anything, we need to worry about another ice age since this cycle is already overdue.

...True the 1971 ice core study proves it but our sun is in fact warming...In also Co2 levels and as time go on warming ocean=more water vapor which cycles into a warming planet...

It's common sense ! I knew it all along. None of these people could EVER convince me about any of these lies on GW - no matter what they say or where it comes from.

...Over the last 15 days since I'v been off the computer I'v read about 8 or 9 weather and earth science books instead of sitting here looking at the computer...I rather look at the facts...


Another interesting article recently was written by Joe Aleo about snowfall being on the increase:

Snowfall on the increase, says Joe Aleo, chief meteorologist:

The 5 year average snow across the hemisphere has increased each year for the last 7 years. Eurasia especially has experienced large snowfall increases. In fact this past January and the five year January average snowfall were both the greatest on record (since 1967). Winter levels of ice and snow across many parts of the hemisphere are higher than they have been in many years and in some places in over a century.


http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=060206D

Snow is a product of cold temperatures.

...Not true cold air has little moisture in it as you warm as long as it stays cold enough for the snow flakes not to turn into rain it will snow. In fact if you get to cold like northeastern Russia or Antartic there is so little moisture its like a desert. Which the moisture increase as the global temps warm or if the theory of warming oceans(Under water volcano's) pull more water vapor into the Atmosphere. One thing about it as you pull more water vapor into the Atmosphere it also will warm the Atmosphere...But on the other hand the clouds will reflect the sun rays back into space=cooling. Theres alot to look at.

Global cooling huh ??

Thanks Joe !

...Maybe but we will see...

Ken

[Trugunzn]

I think global warming is all HYPE!

[kenl01]

Absolutely ! Global warming is the biggest hype and fraud in recorded history !

And yes, sea levels ARE FALLING. I was even visually observing sea level falls in Corpus Christi when a park ranger told me "I've never seen tides this low"

I also heard that again and again from the London Telegraph in 2000, announcing that sea-levels ARE FALLING in the Pacific and Indian Ocean since 1985 (also announced by the Spectator). I also heard reports from another program that boaters somewhere along the west coast couldn't even get out at low tide because tides were TOO LOW. He mentioned that "it's the first time this happened." Australia and Scandinavia had similar reports in recent years as sea levels are falling there also. Here was the report from the The Spectator:

THE LEADER

The new ice age
By the time The Spectator goes to press, the record for the highest-ever authenticated measurement of air temperature in the British Isles may or may not have been broken. The only certainties are that the railway industry will have dreamed up yet more reasons why trains may only run at 20mph, that there will scarcely be a young, bikini-clad woman in Britain who remains unphotographed for the tabloids, and that spokesmen for the global warming lobby will have trousered a few more grand in television appearance fees.

Not even the nation’s ice-cream-sellers can be whooping with joy so loudly as our climatologists. For every degree the mercury tips over 90?F, they can expect a few more million pounds in funding. There will be more invitations to No. 10, more OBEs and another round of conferences in exotic locations to enjoy long after the current heatwave has subsided and our weather returned to its normal miserable self.

That supposedly rational scientific theory on climate change is influenced by what the weather happens to be doing outside their labs is clear from the annals of scientific journals. As Andrew Kenny pointed out in these pages a year ago, the consensus of scientific opinion in the 1970s was that the world was headed for a new ice age. As late as 1975 the editor of New Scientist was warning that ‘the threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind’. When the following summer turned out to be one of the hottest on record, sentiment suddenly changed and global warming took over as the great terror.

Do the temperatures in Britain over the past week at all justify the apocalyptic warnings of global warming? It depends, of course, how you wish to distort the data. True, a ridge of very hot air has swung up from the Continent and across Britain, raising the temperature to 92?F at Gatwick airport on Tuesday. Yet at Skegness on the same day it reached just 68?. As Conservative-supporting newspapers cannot resist gloating, the temperature has been higher in Bournemouth these past few days than in Barbados, where Tony Blair has taken his family on a freebie holiday courtesy of Cliff Richard. Turn the statistic around and it might equally be interpreted as a warning sign of global cooling: ‘Fresh fears of ice age as August temperatures in Barbados fall below those of Bournemouth.’

If you want to construct a case for a new ice age, there is plenty more evidence. In Australia it has been a beastly winter, with some places seeing their first snowfall in decades. In Singapore at this time of year, temperatures are supposed to average 90?F, yet for the past few days they have been hovering at a Skegnessian 70?. Maybe the hot air of the tropics has been draining away north in one last gasp before the Atlantic fills with icebergs and the woolly mammoths march across Asia.

Of course, an attempt to build a climatic theory on the basis of a few temperature readings from around the world is fraught with difficulties. But then climatologists do not seem to be very good at interpreting data from the world’s weather stations either. Averaged across the globe, temperatures recorded at weather stations have indeed been rising over the past couple of decades. Yet the alternative method of measuring average global temperatures — from satellites — shows no such rise, which suggests global warming may be a phantom effect caused by having too many weather stations among the world’s artificially heated concrete jungles. As for the biblical floods widely predicted, sea levels around several islands in the Indian Ocean have actually fallen since their demise was predicted in the 1980s. (That's interesting to me - falling sea levels in Indian Ocean. At the same token, the Pacific sea levels have also fallen)

Even if the globe is warming, it is far from proven whether this is on balance a bad thing. If a few coral islands were to disappear, would their loss outweigh the gain in agriculture in northern climes? It is bizarre that Britain should be leading the world in taking action against global warming when we would benefit more than anybody: a rise of 2?F would merely take our climate back to mediaeval times, when Northumbrian monks were knocking back home-made wine.

If anything, it is the risk of an ice age which we have to fear. When ice ages arrive, the geological record tells us, they arrive quickly, within the space of a few years. A repeat of the last ice age would see the ice caps extending to the Thames. England would become like Greenland: capable of supporting marginal settlements on its southernmost fringes, but a wasteland within. What is more, the geological record shows that ice ages have tended to occur at 10,000-year intervals and are preceded by few warning signs. The last ice age ended 10,000 years ago.

For anyone reading this on a sun-lounger in Bournemouth, enjoy it while you can. For readers in Skegness, it may be too late already. Even the mass of hot air generated by the climate-change lobby will not prevent the next ice age when it does arrive.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article....3-08-09&id=3395

From London Telegraph:

The tiny country of Tuvalu is not cooperating with global warming models. In the early 1990s, scientists warned that the Pacific coral atoll of nine islands - only 12 feet above sea level at its highest point - would vanish within decades, swamped by rising seas. Sea levels were supposedly rising at the rate of 1.5 inches per year.

However, new measurements show that sea levels have fallen 2.5 inches since that time. Similar sea-level declines have been recorded in Nauru and the Solomon Islands. (London Telegraph, 6 Aug 2000.

Sea levels are also falling in Australia.

Sea levels are also falling in Stockholm, Sweden.



So once again, I do not care how some of you put it or where it comes from, Global Warming is a hoax and always was.

The ice is growing. Snowfall is increasing.

And that's the end of the argument !

Ken

[Supercell Hunters]

I think everything is mixed up in science because of that global warming is hoax or not. Some scientists believe it not real and other does, so what we going to do with that. I not going to follow both of them.

[jasons2k]

Also it is true that there is more Co2 over the last 100 years then any time with in history. The thing is its going up at a rate that is amazing. Also as the sun heats up more water vapor moves into the Atmoshere...In water vapor is a even more stronger green house gase then Co2. Which will warm the planet even more. With less trees taking up the Co2=more Co2...

That is not true:

Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"

[FunkMasterB]

One can certainly cherry pick opinions of individual scientists who don't believe in global warming. One can also cherry pick opinions of individual biologists who don't believe in evolution. However, I think it makes a lot more sense to go with the consensus of the scientific community. And it's getting pretty close to unanimous in favor of global warming with at least some human influence.

"The American Geophysical Union and American Meteorological Society in 2003 both declared that signs of global warming had become compelling.

In 2004 the American Association for the Advancement of Science said that there was no longer any "substantive disagreement in the scientific community" that artificial global warming is happening.

In 2005, the National Academy of Sciences joined the science academies of Britain, China, Germany, Japan and other nations in a joint statement saying, "There is now strong evidence that significant global warming is occurring."

This year Mr. Karl of the climatic data center said research now supports "a substantial human impact on global temperature increases."

And this month the Climate Change Science Program, the Bush administration's coordinating agency for global-warming research, declared it had found "clear evidence of human influences on the climate system."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/opinion/24easterbrook.html?ex=1306123200&en=a4df3b808f1716da&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

[curtadams]

Also it is true that there is more Co2 over the last 100 years then any time with in history. The thing is its going up at a rate that is amazing. Also as the sun heats up more water vapor moves into the Atmoshere...In water vapor is a even more stronger green house gase then Co2. Which will warm the planet even more. With less trees taking up the Co2=more Co2...

That is not true:

Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"

You're quoting either a liar or a fool. The earth was cooler in the Ordovician for a given level of CO2 because the sun's output has increased over the life of the earth http://angeles.sierraclub.org/nss/Story ... fe%201.pdf The end-Ordivician glaciation was probably driven mostly by the movements of continents toward the poles.

There are certainly other things that influence the Earth's temperature besides CO2 - solar output and continental placement both play a role. This is analogous to the fact that how cold you are in bed depends on more than how many blankets you're using. Nonetheless, putting on a blanket will make you warmer, whether in Tahiti or Alaska. Likewise, pumping staggering amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere has and will make the earth warmer. Patterson's bizarre claim is like saying that # of blankets used doesn't correlate with sleeper's warmth - which is true, but because people in Tahiti don't use blankets, not because blankets wouldn't make people in Tahiti warmer. There is no good correlation between CO2 and global temps over deep time if you don't correct for the other factors but when you do it's quite strong.

There is no excuse for somebody testifying about geological climate change not to know that main sequence stars get hotter during their lives. If he's not being quoted out of context, he's being deliberately misleading.

[TexasStooge]

My mom told me that there's something other than global warming, a slight tilting of the Earth's axis may have a lot to do with some areas being under a severe drought.

[JBG]

100 percent correct. Here we are with falling sea levels in the Indian and Pacific Oceans, growing glaciers in most high altitude locations and growing Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets and heavier snows (in many areas the heaviest in over a century), and these people in the media keep screaming about the greatest fraud in history ever invented since the late 70's about global warming. It is absolutely absurd. They couldn't be more wrong.

Well, I'm glad that Gary Gray understands all this. I've known this since 1992 that it was a fraud.

Anyone aware of a bit of history, that the Vikings farmed in Greenland (warm period not triggered by automobile usage), or the extreme cold of the US Revolutionary War/Dickens period (cold period not triggered by automobile usage or other industrial activity) should know that weather and climate fluctuate over time.

The article starting the thread sums it up:

The controversy about global warming resides all too perfectly at the collision point of environmentalism and free-market capitalism. The divisive nature of global warming isn't helped by the fact that the most powerful global-warming skeptic (at least by reputation) is President Bush, and the loudest warnings come from Al Gore.

[FunkMasterB]

The article starting the thread sums it up:


The controversy about global warming resides all too perfectly at the collision point of environmentalism and free-market capitalism. The divisive nature of global warming isn't helped by the fact that the most powerful global-warming skeptic (at least by reputation) is President Bush, and the loudest warnings come from Al Gore.

I don't think it sums it up at all. Bush has a few skeptics and Big Industry backing up his claims, Gore has all the aforementioned scientists, organizations, and government agencies.

I know who I'm siding with here, and it ain't Bush and Big Industry.

[P.K.]

My mom told me that there's something other than global warming, a slight tilting of the Earth's axis may have a lot to do with some areas being under a severe drought.

I can't see how droughts in various parts of the world are due to the earth's tilt as if it does change it would be a very slow change.

[Yarrah]

My mom told me that there's something other than global warming, a slight tilting of the Earth's axis may have a lot to do with some areas being under a severe drought.

I can't see how droughts in various parts of the world are due to the earth's tilt as if it does change it would be a very slow change.

Indeed, it take several thousands of years for earth's axis to tilt. The drought is mostly caused by deforestation (especially the drought in Southern America), because without enough tropical rainforests, there is almost nothing to evaporate and thus hardly any rain.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

So the last word I'v heard, is we are having the 3rd warmest year in history of measurments. Lets see if we can make that number one!!!

[Yarrah]

So the last word I'v heard, is we are having the 3rd warmest year in history of measurments. Lets see if we can make that number one!!!

I'd rather have a more 'normal' year. I don't really like to see people die because of the heat and associated droughts and I also don't want to see the sealevel rising further; I'd like to live here for a few more decades.