Handling of the over-eager storm wishers

[curtadams]

To me -removed- is not just the "I wish it would get Cat 5" and "I hope it comes here". But it's also 30 posts in one thread of "I think this has a good chance to develop", when it's blaringly obvious it's NOT possible. But the wisher refuses to listen to more experienced and knowledgeable advice.

And, it's not so much -removed- that bothers me, anyway. It's non-essential repetitive posts during an actual event, that makes it hard or impossible to read the board. Some of us really RELY on this place for critical information, because we don't have local resources you enjoy on the mainland!!

Agreed that's annoying, but banning is way too drastic. A better option would be to have an "ignore" button for posters - the same way you could ignore somebody on Usenet. With 20 or so judicious ignores, you'd get a clean board, the weenies would have fun harmlessly, and none of us would have the endless and painful arguments over when a banning was fair.

I have no idea how practical this is with the board software.

[CycloneCarl]

Cyclonecarl - - - keep in mind that a Cat. 5 cyclone in Australia is not the same thing as a Cat. 5 hurricane in America. For example, Cyclone Larry actually would have only been a high end Cat. 4 storm in America. (It also seems like Australia bases their storms on gusts),

The experience I wrote of above was Cat 5 TC Joan at Port Hedland, NW Western Australia, in Dec. 1975, which compared to Larry was a much larger and slower moving system, so it was potentially far more destructive (however buildings in NW WA are constructed with monster TC's in mind!).

From the BoM report, Dvorak (1973, 1975) analysis of the final NOAA 4 vis satellite image prior to landfall captured at 08:26 AWST = 00:26 UTC on Dec 7 1975 yielded 915 mb and 10-min 228 km/hr [142 mph, 123 knots] - which translates to max gusts (mean + 40%) of 319 km/hr [198 mph, 172 knots], bearing in mind that satellite images were not as good as today, and Dvorak is not that precise.

By landfall it had probably weakened a little (BoM estimates about 925 to 930 mb), and it crossed the coast about 45km west of us at about 06:00 AWST Dec 8 = 22:00 UTC Dec 7.

Wind data recorded at the Nelson Point port site at Port Hedland by an anemometer owned by the Mount Newman Mining Co. Pty Ltd, suggest that a mean wind in excess of 160 km/h probably occurred between 0500 and 0515 8 December. (Unfortunately the anemometer was not capable of actually recording speeds greater than about 155 km/h, but this observation is consistent with the wind recording at the Port Hedland Airport Meteorological Office.)...
...Considering Shea and Gray's (1973) statistical relationship between radar observed precipitation patterns and the maximum wind field in tropical cyclones, it could be inferred from radar photographs of cyclone Joan that the most destructive winds were in a band lying between 25 and 40 km from the centre of the eye. This implies that Port Hedland experienced winds somewhat less than the maximum generated by Joan. The anemometer at the Port Hedland Airport Meteorological Office [edit to add: nearer South Hedland and about 10 km or so inland], which recorded a maximum gust of 208 km/h and a maximum mean (10 minute) wind of 141 km/h, was located 51 km from the centre of Joan at or shortly after landfall.

For those who may be interested, I scanned the BoM report, OCR'd what I could (and I just noticed there are some OCR typo's that need to be corrected!), and put the resulting text and images online here - note that the senior BoM staff member that sent me the report said it was OK to put it online if I wanted to.

either way that was an amazing story of what you had to go through in your home. That would freak me out for sure.

Fortunately, in that experience it was not my home but a unit in beachfront motel I was staying in - however it's location on top of a sand dune meant we were exposed to the full brunt of the winds coming in off the ocean, and from looking at the damage around the town afterwards I think the area along the beachfront was probably hit the hardest, although most of the town suffered considerable damage.

[curtadams]

Wishcaster

<OMG> - that's scary!

[GalvestonDuck]

To me -removed- is not just the "I wish it would get Cat 5" and "I hope it comes here". But it's also 30 posts in one thread of "I think this has a good chance to develop", when it's blaringly obvious it's NOT possible. But the wisher refuses to listen to more experienced and knowledgeable advice.

And, it's not so much -removed- that bothers me, anyway. It's non-essential repetitive posts during an actual event, that makes it hard or impossible to read the board. Some of us really RELY on this place for critical information, because we don't have local resources you enjoy on the mainland!!

Agreed that's annoying, but banning is way too drastic. A better option would be to have an "ignore" button for posters - the same way you could ignore somebody on Usenet. With 20 or so judicious ignores, you'd get a clean board, the weenies would have fun harmlessly, and none of us would have the endless and painful arguments over when a banning was fair.

I have no idea how practical this is with the board software.

Probably wouldn't work very easily. Let's say you ignored posts by "Troll101." You would still see the posts in reply to Troll101's post because there would be those who felt compelled to respond rather than ignore the troll.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Why do we have to call people that like to track or study storms storm wishers? It seems kind of like calling some one a wishcaster???

[bvigal]

To me -removed- is not just the "I wish it would get Cat 5" and "I hope it comes here". But it's also 30 posts in one thread of "I think this has a good chance to develop", when it's blaringly obvious it's NOT possible. But the wisher refuses to listen to more experienced and knowledgeable advice.

And, it's not so much -removed- that bothers me, anyway. It's non-essential repetitive posts during an actual event, that makes it hard or impossible to read the board. Some of us really RELY on this place for critical information, because we don't have local resources you enjoy on the mainland!!

Agreed that's annoying, but banning is way too drastic. A better option would be to have an "ignore" button for posters - the same way you could ignore somebody on Usenet. With 20 or so judicious ignores, you'd get a clean board, the weenies would have fun harmlessly, and none of us would have the endless and painful arguments over when a banning was fair.

I have no idea how practical this is with the board software.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea from this reply, I NEVER said anything about banning!!!!!

[Lindaloo]

I smell a RAT in this darn thread too.


EXCELLENT post Frank!!

thanks Linda... you and I, along with all the fine folks along the coast are living the affects of a major storm in our area... we know and we're quite sensitive about it.. .... Katrina not only devastated our homes and businesses, it damaged out psyche as well... people are forever changed, and many scarred for life

I've always been fascinated and excited by storms and have tracked them for years... But I can honestly say that after Katrina, I hope I NEVER EVER see another major hurricane in my life... and folks that is -removed- at its best... sad thing is that it will be years before my area is back to "normal".... but we're getting better every month... boy I wish the Olive Garden was still just down the block from me...

That is my thinking also. I miss so much that I took for granted. I just hope and pray that NO ONE has to ever go through what we have had to endure, which alot of us are still having to go through.

[Pearl River]

[/b]Frank P wrote

I wish the Olive Garden was still just down the block from me

Hey Frank, the Olive Garden in Slidell is open and it's just as good as ever.

People tend to take for granted what they have, until something like Katrina and Rita happens. I only wish no one ever has to endure what everyone from SE Texas to Alabama have gone thru. Even those in Florida from 2 years ago are still feeling it.

[curtadams]

Probably wouldn't work very easily. Let's say you ignored posts by "Troll101." You would still see the posts in reply to Troll101's post because there would be those who felt compelled to respond rather than ignore the troll.

Most of the people I disagree with only get quoted by other people I disagree with, so it should work pretty well.

[curtadams]

Agreed that's annoying, but banning is way too drastic. A better option would be to have an "ignore" button for posters - the same way you could ignore somebody on Usenet. <snip>

Lest anyone get the wrong idea from this reply, I NEVER said anything about banning!!!!!

Sorry. It *was* proposed upthread. I see your problem, and would like to have a way for you to fix it.

[Frank P]

[/b]Frank P wrote

I wish the Olive Garden was still just down the block from me

Hey Frank, the Olive Garden in Slidell is open and it's just as good as ever.

People tend to take for granted what they have, until something like Katrina and Rita happens. I only wish no one ever has to endure what everyone from SE Texas to Alabama have gone thru. Even those in Florida from 2 years ago are still feeling it.

Boy I sure did PR... now we can't take nothing for granted because basically everything is gone...

wouldn't it be great if the entire coastal areas went the whole season with a major storm... we really need it on the northern Gulf Coast and I'm sure many areas of Florida as well.... think of what the gas prices will do with another big storm hitting the LA or Tx areas, or if a major hits another populated area how the building prices will skyrocket upward even more... not to mention the already heavy burden on all the government emergency support agencies... if ever there was a year to be hurricane free, this would be the year... give us time to catch our breath

I'll have to check out the slidell OG.... although I've driven to the eastern shore of Mobile on a couple of occasions to go to that OG...

[CycloneCarl]

OK, I think I know what you are getting at by '-removed-' now.

This was handled on Australia's WeatherZone forums once a thread gets busy by splitting it into two distinguished by appending [reports and chat] and [fcasts, warnings and met discussion] to the thread names.

For the most part people soon learn to stick to the appropiate thread, as people will remind anyone who posts in the wrong thread (if they don't pick up on it themselves), and it is only on rare occasions that moderators need to become involved in this part of the process.

For an example of this working, you can see the Severe Tropical Cyclone Monica thread, which went on for 122 pages - when things got busy this thread was locked and the Tropical Cyclone Monica [fcasts, warnings and met discussion] thread (28 pages) and the Tropical Cyclone Monica [reports and chat] thread (52 pages) were created.

You could implement something similar here, and in this manner everyones interests are catered for, those wanting serious discussion and info having their thread, and those '-removed-' and chatting away about it having their thread.

[Regit]

Everyone has spent all this time being critical of "-removed-." Some seem the think it means simply hoping for a storm to come to them, while others cited people forecasting without the technical knowledge of a meteoroligist.

Firstly, the latter complaint is ridiculous. This is a forum of mostly amateurs. If we're not allowed to say where we think a storm is going, let's just shut it down and go home.

Secondly, why do people automatically get attacked if they think the storm is coming to them? Are we to disregard any NHC product that gives the highest landfall probability to Miami? If someone lives in Wilmington and says he believes the storm is going to Wilmington, that's great. People have to be able to use at least a minimal amount of common sense. If the forecast states absolutely no explanation it should be disregarded. If the aforementioned Wilmingtonian says "it appears Wilmington is the most likely landfall point because of factors A, B, and C," then the reader should use his or her own common sense to figure out if the forecast holds water and should weigh it against other forecasts.

But many times on this board, I've seen such forecasts attacked as -removed-. If the hypothetical person had only said "Myrtle Beach" or "Cape Hatteras" it would have been taken as seriously as any other post with no charge of -removed-. I will say, however, that the problem of accusing people of -removed- is much more rampant in the chat room.

My lesson from watching many messages over the seasons is this: When a storm is headed my way, I'm not welcome to take part in the forecasting discussion.

[Recurve]

Disclosure: I skipped much of this thread.

Before the season started, I wondered how I would feel this year on storm2K -- after several years of observing without consequences, last year was personally damaging (boat lost) --- but much worse for people who I know from here and elsewhere -- all you folks from Biloxi and Slidel and Holly Beach and the Texas/LA border, and many other places whose names and people I think of at night.

I thought, at the beginning of the season, it would be good to post something to warn people I disagree with and overly enthisiastic weather watchers --- perhaps people in Arkansas or Alaska who are thrilled with hurricanes but don't face destruction from them -- to be very careful in their posts this year, considering what everyone's been through.

But you know what? There's no need for special rules or warnings this year. There's no way we can tune the world to our frequency, so that no one posts anything offensive. The key to dealing with it, no matter how bad it was for you in 2004 and 2005 or 1965, is to remember: what other people think, feel, or forecast will not have any impact on your life -- unless you let it.

We will always have posters who seem a little too enthusiastic about rapid intensification, about tracks that point toward population centers, and about wanting a hurricane to hit them. But it will never diminish the value of Storm2K. It will never crush my faith in the science. It won't ruin my appreciation of all the care and concern that I know is out there.

So I guess my reply to this thread is this: IGNORE what bothers or angers you. CONTRIBUTE how and when you can. SUPPORT those seeking information. REJECT the urge to strike or sanction people who post even the most upsetting opinions. From now until Jan 1, 2006, we don't have space in which to argue or fight -- we need each other in the most fundamental way. As always on Storm2K, just be polite.

Think of this scene: A stranger wanders into your town the day after a storm and flood levels it, and says to you, "Man, this place is a dump!" You want to knock him to the ground for the insult. But the only logical response is to say, "Let me tell you what happened."

[Starburst]

Dhweather,

You are as guilty as anyone here and I would hate for you to be banned as I do so much enjoy your posts but you are my dear friend the bring it on king.

examples:
dhweather

Replies: 14
Views: 608
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:19 pm Subject: Earl just a wave?
i hope and pray a cat5 heads for venezuela one day and we refuse to give tham any info on it.
And block out all imagery that shows anything near them from the satellites. What a bunch of jerks.
*(I know why you posted this but the citizens would still suffer)*

dhweather

Replies: 24
Views: 1284
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:25 pm Subject: 5 day forecast track not looking good....
I'm sure plenty have....Also we are so far out from Frances even being any kind of threat weather it be Brownsville or Maine...

Frances, bring your @$@#$ to me!
*(You loved hurricanes as you have stated many times before)*
dhweather

Replies: 25
Views: 824
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:35 pm Subject: omy
One day, I will no longer be a measley wave.

Hell, if I had known this was here prior to this year, I'd be a cat 5,
I LIVE for the tropical season.
*(again you loved hurricane season)*
dhweather

Replies: 20
Views: 597
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:55 pm Subject: Tropical Cyclone Formation Alert for 94L
Bring it on, I evacuated for the first Ivan. And you, sir, are no first IVAN!


dhweather

Replies: 7
Views: 202
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:33 pm Subject: Ivan.....
BRING YOUR @#$$@# TO ME!!!!!!



I WILL NOT BOARD UP

I WILL NOT EVACUATE

YOU AND ME IN MY FRONT YARD, BRO

BRING IT ON!!!!

dhweather

Replies: 17
Views: 490
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:37 am Subject: GOM mess......
Bring it on.
(still punch drunk from Ivan)

dhweather

Replies: 1162
Views: 42899
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:47 pm Subject: SST'S and Anomalies in Atlantic and Pacific
Just in time for HURRICANE SEASON! WOOHOO!!!!!
*(You are still excited bringing in the 2005 hurricane season)*
dhweather

Replies: 15
Views: 432
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 3:05 pm Subject: 2005 Hurricane Season Almost here
I can't wait!
dhweather

Replies: 54
Views: 1817
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 3:06 pm Subject: Storm Threats
I say bring it on.

Not that I want one, but it's gonna take a 3 headed to New Orleans
before I evacuate. I'm not in a flood zone, and the house is extremely
well built with shutters approved ...

dhweather

Replies: 270
Views: 11999
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 11:37 pm Subject: ****Hurricane Season 2005 is here!!****
25 hours and 23 minutes for me - woohoo! dhweather

Replies: 270
Views: 11999
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:52 pm Subject: ****Hurricane Season 2005 is here!!****
HAIL YEAH!!! I KAN'T WAIT!!!!!!!

3 hours, 8 minutes, central time

dhweather

Replies: 10
Views: 519
Forum: Talkin' Tropics Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:50 am Subject: NO LONGER a hurrcane fan...YES Ive Bailed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's OK to be a hurricane fan. They are fun to track, discuss, forecast, compare and contrast, etc. Now the damage is a different story, but that's something one accepts by living in a coastal area. ...


* It is much different after it happens to you and you see the devastation first hand. You saw the devastation the 2004 hurricane season brought but you were more than happy to cheer the 2005 season on to a start with the "bring it on" remarks but yet now since it has happened to you the tables have turned. We all understand that most of you living in the Katrina and Rita zones are still shell shocked so to speak and do respect that. We all have a sick love for hurricanes and mother nature including yourself and we just need to remember that no matter what happens in our area of the world people are still going to want to experience the thrill of a hurricane just as you have since you were a small child. No matter how many times someone wishes for a storm to strike near them we all know it is not going to change the forecast pattern of that storm. We may not like the comments that are made but all of us can relate because we have one thing in common a love for weather. As a weather community we are bound together and also share in every emotional, devastating, tragic weather event that happens to each and every one of us. This board is the first ones praying for the ones caught deep in the storm as it does affect each and every one of us in some way. We may bicker and fight like siblings but we are all one family like it or not. I just felt I had to put my two cents worth in ignore it if you wish but this is how I feel.

[Extremeweatherguy]

Starburst, that is very interesting considering he wrote this on page one:

"bring it on"

"OMG, it's coming here" with no proof whatsoever (say the NHC forecast)

those types of things that annoy many of us.

[mf_dolphin]

Well for my 2 cents worth on the subject, the staff will deal will those people that get too annoying. That being said, this is a board that appeals to all types of people from Pro Mets to rank amateurs. We happen to like it like that and will do everything possible to keep it that way. The best rules are:

1. If someone's posts bother you - ignore them.
2. If someone is detracting from the board PM a Mod. There's almost always one or two on the board.
3. If you're PM'd by a Mod about your posts you better pay attention. They have our full support and do a hell of a job.

[Normandy]

Damn talk about bursting someones bubble starburst.

EDIT
Ha im a Cat 1, i never noticed

[Brent]

Damn talk about bursting someones bubble starburst.

LOL. For sure.

[Stephanie]

Just to add my 2 cents to Marshall's post, one of the best things about Talking Tropics is the interaction between amateurs and the pro mets. There's alot to learn from all of these talented people.