Scientists say Arctic once was tropical

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AussieMark
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Scientists say Arctic once was tropical

#1 Postby AussieMark » Wed May 31, 2006 9:42 pm

not sure if this goes in here if its a wrong can someone move it to a place more appropiate



Scientists say Arctic once was tropical

WASHINGTON - Scientists have found what might have been the ideal ancient vacation hotspot with a 74-degree Fahrenheit average temperature, alligator ancestors and palm trees. It's smack in the middle of the Arctic.

First-of-its-kind core samples dug up from deep beneath the Arctic Ocean floor show that 55 million years ago an area near the North Pole was practically a subtropical paradise, three new studies show.

The scientists say their findings are a glimpse backward into a much warmer-than-thought polar region heated by run-amok greenhouse gases that came about naturally.

Skeptics of man-made causes of global warming have nothing to rejoice over, however. The researchers say their studies appearing in Thursday's issue of Nature also offer a peek at just how bad conditions can get.

"It probably was (a tropical paradise) but the mosquitoes were probably the size of your head," said Yale geology professor Mark Pagani, a study co-author.

And what a watery, swampy world it must have been.

"Imagine a world where there are dense sequoia trees and cypress trees like in Florida that ring the Arctic Ocean," said Pagani, a member of the multinational Arctic Coring Expedition that conducted the research.

Millions of years ago the Earth experienced an extended period of natural global warming. But around 55 million years ago there was a sudden supercharged spike of carbon dioxide that accelerated the greenhouse effect.

Scientists already knew this "thermal event" happened but are not sure what caused it. Perhaps massive releases of methane from the ocean, the continent-sized burning of trees, lots of volcanic eruptions.

Many experts figured that while the rest of the world got really hot, the polar regions were still comfortably cooler, maybe about 52 degrees Fahrenheit.

But the new research found the polar average was closer to 74 degrees. So instead of Boston-like weather year-round, the Arctic was more like Miami North. Way north.

"It's the first time we've looked at the Arctic, and man, it was a big surprise to us," said study co-author Kathryn Moran, an oceanographer at the University of Rhode Island. "It's a new look to how the Earth can respond to these peaks in carbon dioxide."

It's enough to make Santa Claus break into a sweat.

The 74-degree temperature, based on core samples which act as a climatic time capsule, was probably the year-round average, but because data is so limited it might also be just the summertime average, researchers said.

What's troubling is that this hints that future projections for warming, several degrees over the next century, may be on the low end, said study lead author Appy Sluijs of the Institute of Environmental Biology at Utrecht University in the Netherlands.

Also it shows that what happened 55 million years ago was proof that too much carbon dioxide — more than four times current levels — can cause global warming, said another co-author Henk Brinkhuis at Utrecht University.

Purdue University atmospheric sciences professor Gabriel Bowen, who was not part of the team, praised the work and said it showed that "there are tipping points in our (climate) system that can throw us to these conditions."

And the new research also gave scientists the idea that a simple fern may have helped pull Earth from a hothouse to an icehouse by sucking up massive amounts of carbon dioxide. Unfortunately, this natural solution to global warming was not exactly quick: It took about a million years.

With all that heat and massive freshwater lakes forming in the Arctic, a fern called Azolla started growing and growing. Azolla, still found in warm regions today, grew so deep, so wide that eventually it started sucking up carbon dioxide, Brinkhuis theorized. And that helped put the cool back in the Arctic.

Bowen said he has a hard time accepting that part of the research, but Brinkhuis said the studies show tons upon tons of thick mats of Azolla covered the Arctic and moved south.

"This could actually contribute to push the world to a cooling mode," Brinkhuis said, but only after it got hotter first and then it would take at least 800,000 years to cool back down. It's not something to look forward to, he said.
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#2 Postby terstorm1012 » Wed May 31, 2006 10:21 pm

I'd hate to think of what it was like in the Temperate and Tropical zones if it was that hot up there!
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#3 Postby HURAKAN » Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm

Could you imagine Greenland having to evacuate because of a Cat. 5 hurricane is going to make landfall? Crazy!!!

I didn't know the North Pole was once tropical. Let me clear something out, does this mean that the land in the North Pole didn't move from there over the past 55 million years?
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Re: Scientists say Arctic once was tropical

#4 Postby stormtruth » Wed May 31, 2006 10:58 pm

AussieMark wrote:
not sure if this goes in here if its a wrong can someone move it to a place more appropiate



Scientists say Arctic once was tropical

"It probably was (a tropical paradise) but the mosquitoes were probably the size of your head," said Yale geology professor Mark Pagani, a study co-author.



gulp... :( :eek: :cry:
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#5 Postby terstorm1012 » Wed May 31, 2006 11:39 pm

HURAKAN wrote:Could you imagine Greenland having to evacuate because of a Cat. 5 hurricane is going to make landfall? Crazy!!!

I didn't know the North Pole was once tropical. Let me clear something out, does this mean that the land in the North Pole didn't move from there over the past 55 million years?


That land was probably where Spain is today or something like that.
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#6 Postby HurricaneBill » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:53 am

I always heard a rumor that during one of the expeditions to the North Pole, one of the explorers found a thong. :cheesy:
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#7 Postby hicksta » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:55 am

That is crazy
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#8 Postby timNms » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:20 am

Scientists also say that man evolved from apes :eek:

And if you believe either of those stories, I have some ocean front property in Arizona that I'll sell ya :lol:
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#9 Postby mobilebay » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:22 am

timNms wrote:Scientists also say that man evolved from apes :eek:

And if you believe either of those stories, I have some ocean front property in Arizona that I'll sell ya :lol:

I know it's true, I was there. :lol:
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#10 Postby Valkhorn » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:52 am

Scientists also say that man evolved from apes


Men and apes share a common ancestor, yes.

Evolution is a theory and a fact - learn it.
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#11 Postby gtalum » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:50 am

timNms wrote:Scientists also say that man evolved from apes


No modern scientist would ever make such a ridiculous claim. Before bashing a theory, you ought to learn it. ;)
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#12 Postby gtalum » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:53 am

I wonder why there's no mention of drifting tectonic plates in this article or by the scientists... Finding evidence of tropical life in the polar regions does not necessarily mean the polar regions were ever tropical. That evidence could have drifted there due to tectonic activity.
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#13 Postby HURAKAN » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:00 am

gtalum wrote:I wonder why there's no mention of drifting tectonic plates in this article or by the scientists... Finding evidence of tropical life in the polar regions does not necessarily mean the polar regions were ever tropical. That evidence could have drifted there due to tectonic activity.


That's my point. If you go to Antarctica you will find evidence of a past tropical life burried under the ice. That's doesn't mean that the South Pole was once tropical but that the continent itself was once in a tropical position.
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#14 Postby Patrick99 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:23 am

Even if the poles had temps in the 50s, that would be extremely warm. How warm were the real tropics back then? What kind of storms were there?

I wonder if there were "hurricanes" way back then in the sense of our understanding.
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#15 Postby x-y-no » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:24 am

The area that core was taken has been in the Arctic since well before the time in question.

I couldn't find a map of plate positions at precicelt 55M years, but here's one at 65 million. As you can see, the Atlantic basin is a lot narrower, and Central America hasn't formed yet, but the arrangement is still fairly similar to the present.
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#16 Postby Stratusxpeye » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:26 am

Valkhorn wrote:
Scientists also say that man evolved from apes


Men and apes share a common ancestor, yes.

Evolution is a theory and a fact - learn it.


Correct. I am an evolution beliver as well. Facts support this theory.
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#17 Postby terstorm1012 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:34 am

Patrick99 wrote:Even if the poles had temps in the 50s, that would be extremely warm. How warm were the real tropics back then? What kind of storms were there?

I wonder if there were "hurricanes" way back then in the sense of our understanding.


That was my question too. The planet was probably unlivable by our standards at that time if the poles were so hot.

What journal has the actual paper? I want to read it. Something does seem lost in translation to mediaspeak.
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#18 Postby gtalum » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:38 am

x-y-no wrote:The area that core was taken has been in the Arctic since well before the time in question.

I couldn't find a map of plate positions at precicelt 55M years, but here's one at 65 million. As you can see, the Atlantic basin is a lot narrower, and Central America hasn't formed yet, but the arrangement is still fairly similar to the present.


Ok then. Thanks for the link!
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#19 Postby timNms » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:02 am

gtalum wrote:
timNms wrote:Scientists also say that man evolved from apes


No modern scientist would ever make such a ridiculous claim. Before bashing a theory, you ought to learn it. ;)


:D Not bashing, just stating my opinion.
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#20 Postby timNms » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:05 am

Valkhorn wrote:
Scientists also say that man evolved from apes


Men and apes share a common ancestor, yes.

Evolution is a theory and a fact - learn it.


Whose fact? I know enough about evolution to know that it is a theory. Is a theory a fact?

Dictionary.com says this-

theory:
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena

fact:
Knowledge or information based on real occurrences
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