FSU gone? edited for content...TM, It's Back!!

[TampaFl]

Yes, NOAA/NWS/NHC are part of the US Government but FSU is not so unless you live in FL and FSU is state funded and not private you don't own it.

Steve

You do own it if you live in the State Of Florida. State funded means the residents of the State Of Florida pay the bills along with tuition fees.

Robert

[TampaFl]

There is still models around...I we pay the tax dollars so the nws to work. So we are owners of the nhc/nws/noaa. If the goverment takes it from us then they will be voted out.

Actually, that's not right. The government is allowed to own private property. The most notable example is roads. They are the private property of the state. The state grants you the privilege to use them. You have no right to use them. The same is true here. Even if the models were totally controlled by NOAA, they could take away the privilege.

We have no right to use them?????? Am I missing something here?? Then why do the states allow us to use them??? Our tax dollars payed to have these roads built! .


Robert

[Jim Hughes]

There is still models around...I we pay the tax dollars so the nws to work. So we are owners of the nhc/nws/noaa. If the goverment takes it from us then they will be voted out.

Actually, that's not right. The government is allowed to own private property. The most notable example is roads. They are the private property of the state. The state grants you the privilege to use them. You have no right to use them. The same is true here. Even if the models were totally controlled by NOAA, they could take away the privilege.

We have no right to use them?????? Am I missing something here?? Then why do the states allow us to use them??? Our tax dollarspayed to have these roads built! .


Robert

He is basically using samantics here. They say they own the road so that you can not build on it or make a claim that it is yours. But it is somewhat yours indirectly. If you consider freedom of use good enough. Within the laws of course.

It's just like right of way land. If I knowingly bought property with a right a way and you need to use my property to get to your land than I have to let you drive through my property to get to yours. So I may think that this piece of land is my domain but technically it is not. At least not 24/7. I have absolutely no lawful right to keep you from using it.


Jim

[JPmia]

I think there is nothing wrong with having this information on the Internet. The idea that publishing this information creates a liability is VERY weak. Florida has a well established policy of "Government in the Sunshine" as long as it is not proprietary i.e., FSU Superensemble. Mike you made a very good point. Please feel free to contact these folks below and express your thoughts.

FSU Meteorology Department Chair:

Robert G.Ellingson
Meteorology
College of Arts and Sciences
ellingson@met.fsu.edu

President of FSU: (Always good to go right to the top!)
Thomas K. Wetherell
President
Office of the President
wetherell@mailer.fsu.edu

Let's not turn this into a property rights debate and focus our energy on the decision makers at the University. Email the people above; especially if you are an Alumni like me! You know, they actually listen to Alumni.

[weatherdurango]

Well said JP...


Since Wetherell is out of the office... I would contact the Provost...


Lawrence Abele


labele@mailer.fsu.edu

[x-y-no]

Let's not turn this into a property rights debate and focus our energy on the decision makers at the University. Email the people above; especially if you are an Alumni like me! You know, they actually listen to Alumni.

I agree. While I'd like it if they shared the output of the Superensemble, right now that's secondary to the issue that they're removing a lot of handy content they already were sharing in the past.

While in general there are other sources, I really don't want to see this become a trend ...

[x-y-no]

Well said JP...


Since Wetherell is out of the office... I would contact the Provost...


Lawrence Abele


labele@mailer.fsu.edu

Do you know if the provost is a PH.D.? I don't want to offend him by calling him "Mr Abele" if he is (a surprising number of people are touchy about that).

[terstorm1012]

provosts usually are PH.Ds. And if he's not, maybe feeding his ego may get him in our favor

[weatherdurango]

Abele has a Ph.D

[NoceoTotus]

Just as a follow-up on the big super ensemble debate...

I recently left a firm that did a lot of the planning for emergency events including hurricanes and such and even though we had a definite need to know all the storm models and we had close ties with FEMA and the US Army corps of engineers, we could not have access to the FSU super ensemble either... We had access to every other model run on the face of the earth but not that one.

We never could get a real reason why...

<EDIT>
Oh yeah, and notice I *live* in Tallahassee... I would really like to see that model run as well.

[WeatherNole]

FYI -

Although not widely known, the SuperEnsemble data CAN be purchased.

http://www.weatherpredict.com/

Mike

--

[x-y-no]

FYI -

Although not widely known, the SuperEnsemble data CAN be purchased.

http://www.weatherpredict.com/

Mike

--

Well, I'm sure that's affordable for the average home weather enthusiast.

[jlauderdal]

Models are not forecasts. They are models. You have to be able to read them just to find a tropical cyclone.

This type of short sightedness is not something I would expect to see from any US university, especially one that wishes to be regarded as one of the best places to attend for tropical meteorology.

It is sad to see. But FSU has a history of this. For example, why do they not share Superensemble guidance with the public?

This is a bit scarry, that a publicly funded university is choosing not to share information on a very important subject. They can spend our tax dollars and tuition dollars, but can't provide those same people with the information they want.

Unacceptable, and I hope this is not a sign of things to come.

MW

Here is the response from FSU to my email last year about the Superensemble:

Thank you for your interest in our research programs at FSU. The
SuperEnsemble work is a research effort and its ability to make detailed
predictions of storm paths is still the subject of our research. As you
discovered in your research, FSU is quite proud that the National
Hurricane Center receives and uses FSU's SuperEnsemble research
projections in REAL TIME while preparing the official NHC forecasts.
Since the NHC has the exclusive responsibility to provide tropical storm
forecasts for public safety, we believe it is appropriate to limit the
release of research projections that may differ from the official NHC
forecast.

I would be happy to talk with you further about this issue should you
desire it.

Kirby Kemper

-----Original Message-----
From: jfaul@bellsouth.net [mailto:jfaul@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:39 AM
To: tnk@io.met.fsu.edu
Cc: Kemper, Kirby; bkeel@mailer.fsu.edu; jfraser@techtransfer.fsu.edu
Subject: FSU Superensemble

The NHC issues forecasts discussions and refers to the FSU Superensemble
as a tool they use for track forecasting. I have tried to access this
data on the net and it appears it is not made to available to the public
as are other forecasting tools and models. What is the reasoning behind
keeping the data protected?

Also, I found this page http://www.research.fsu.edu/scicol/3/teest.html
and it states "Support from a private company--an insurance underwriting
consortium--already has contributed towards the main computers, an IBM
SP supercomputer and two IBM high-powered workstations, and if tests
continue to show promise, interest in getting the technique into the
public arsenal of forecasting tools surely will follow". This leads me
to believe that public funds are being used for the research and I would
like to know if this true and if so, how much public funding is being
used for this research.

As a SE Florida resident I fully support hurricane track and intensity
research in an effort to better understand tropical systems.

Thank You

[terstorm1012]

that's a good response jlauderdal, and your email was great, very professional.

[Texmedic]

Wow, I kinda kicked over an ant pile didn't I?

R

[sunflowerkist]

When private corporations make financial endowments to Universities they do it with strings attached and get tax breaks from the government as well for doing it. Private Enterprise has no business in Government. Government has no business in private enterprise. When those two get together you end up with the conflict of interest issues we have going. I could not read the model if it were available. But, I really rely on personal opinions of those who can. The media release of information is way too slow for some one stuck in the middle of Florida with a CAT 5 bearing down. It is not enough time from when the media knows to when it will get here. I was able to time the knowledge dispensed between the time the officials KNEW something was going to change dangerously, and the time it went on broadcast.... not nearly enough time. Committees do not move as fast as storms do. But hey, we need less private homes and more Commercial real estate in florida right?

[terstorm1012]

Wow, I kinda kicked over an ant pile didn't I?

R

a FIRE ant pile, no less...

[Wthrman13]

As most know, I am on the other side of this issue and do not believe that model data should be released to those not in the field, due to the potential of misinterpretation, but thats just my view and not a popular one here

The Superensemble, I believe, is a commercial product and that is why it is not released

Well, not to be overly sarcastic, but considering that many meteorologists misinterpret the models on a regular basis, I'm not sure that's a good argument in and of itself. People, at some level, need to be responsible for their own actions. If someone blatantly and even negligently misinterprets a model and for that reason a bunch of lives are lost due to this misinterpretation (not very likely to begin with), the blame should go directly to the person who screwed up, and depending on the circumstances, also to those people who listened to him rather than other, more reliable and knowledgeable people, and not to the providers of the model information that person misused. This seems like plain common sense to me. Just my opinion.

[weatherdurango]

websites are back up... thank you for your patience

[SouthFloridawx]

WOOOOOHOOOOOO@~!!@!!!!!