FSU gone? edited for content...TM, It's Back!!

[terstorm1012]

I just tried to go to the cyclone phase page and this message appeared. I saw a different one earlier.

Notice: Florida State University has mandated effective 24 May 2006 that no real-time weather forecasts relating potentially
in any way to hurricanes are to be disseminated by faculty or students at FSU due to liability concerns.
Consequently, this web page has been shut down UFN.
The authors of these web pages realize the value of these pages, do not agree with the decision, and are working hard to resolve this issue by friday.
Thank you for your patience.
Bob Hart

Ok good.

Usually education administrators can be irritating like this, I used to work at a university , I know how it can be for everyone else.

[GeneratorPower]

Just great! The only one that numbers ALL lows, and provides core-analysis, now gone.

I wouldn't blame the university. It's no doubt their insurance provider putting their foot down, an "either you do this or we won't provide coverage". Get used to it folks, pretty soon it will be ALL the universities who's weather sites you love to peruse. And, you can't blame the insurance companies, either (not exclusively), because they are reacting to the exponentially-growing... what word should I use... "mushroom cloud" of insane liability judgements. It's the same reason why you go to the hospital and they know what's wrong with you, and could treat you right away, but they MUST order $3,000 worth of tests, anyway, mandated to protect them from lawsuits.

I've said it before. It no doubt makes me appear to be carrying around a soap box. But, I've tried to explain just how broad-reaching this problem is, effecting EVERY single American in MULTITUDES of areas of our everyday life. We need TORT REFORM NOW!!!

(Beach Boys Music Playing) "I wish they all could be Virgin Islands girls..."

[GeneratorPower]

That was the best post I've read in a long time...

[bvigal]

Gosh, thanks GP!!!

[Jim Hughes]

As most know, I am on the other side of this issue and do not believe that model data should be released to those not in the field, due to the potential of misinterpretation, but thats just my view and not a popular one here

The Superensemble, I believe, is a commercial product and that is why it is not released

I am going to speak in generalities here because although I am responding to your post, I am responding in general.

As I have said before that type of thinking is in my opinion dangerous. Also, it goes against everything the science of meteorology stands for. In order to view internet models you have to :

1. Log on to the internet
2. Know where to go
3. Know how to open a model
4. Find the right map
5. Find the right run time
6. Find the representation of the cyclone on the map

Also, people who are saying that now weren't saying that when they were using the internet to look at models before they were in school...and while in school.

That statement is also inconsistent with many websites who take it a step further and produce their own forecasts and publish them on the web for all to see, maps with skinny lines and all. If someone were to use initials very similar to the NHC it would be even more of a public "danger of misuse".

Personally, I stopped doing that years ago for that very reason. It is my opinion, putting out maps with lines on them is a far greater threat to the untrained person than any models, but I do not forsee owners of these respective sites stopping that practice any time soon.

MW

Very well put Mike. I was going to reply but I chose to bite my tongue here.


Jim

[Texmedic]

Actually, that's not right. The government is allowed to own private property. The most notable example is roads. They are the private property of the state. The state grants you the privilege to use them. You have no right to use them. The same is true here. Even if the models were totally controlled by NOAA, they could take away the privilege.

I'm no lawyer, but I beg to differ. Any work that is produced by a government agency, or an employee there of, is considered public domain. Therefore the Federal Government has no claim to the intellectual property rights to most "non-patented" or outright copyrighted materials

http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/disclaimer.html

Someone please correct any errors in the above statements.

R

[vbhoutex]

Anyone think it would do any good to complain? If so, to whom do we address this issue?

R

The administration of the University, starting with the dean of the Met school and working up. contact info should be readily available on the FSU site.

[weatherdurango]

These websites SHOULD be back up... therefore here's the people that need to be contacted...


The Provost of Florida State University: Lawrence Abele

labele@mailer.fsu.edu


The President of Florida State University: T.K. Wetherell


wetherell@mailer.fsu.edu

[WeatherNole]

Not sure if I want to jump in the fray yet as I'm still "obtaining information". Let's just say that there is still more to come, and the FSU Met dept. may come out looking even worse, even though THEY aren't the ones actually making the decisions. Sorry to be foggy on this, but I am not in a position to say more at this time.

And, while I should just ignore it, I can't -
rjgator - Your comment was pathetic and uncalled for. Get your degree in meteorology from the university of florida and we'll see how it stacks up.
Ohhhhhh.......wait a second. First - GET a department of Meteorology, and then you can run some lame smack. I can take all the trash-talking about athletics, but let's just leave it there, ok?
Vent over. No hard feelings.

Mike

--

[Texmedic]

Not sure if I want to jump in the fray yet as I'm still "obtaining information". Let's just say that there is still more to come, and the FSU Met dept. may come out looking even worse, even though THEY aren't the ones actually making the decisions. Sorry to be foggy on this, but I am not in a position to say more at this time.

And, while I should just ignore it, I can't -
rjgator - Your comment was pathetic and uncalled for. Get your degree in meteorology from the university of florida and we'll see how it stacks up.
Ohhhhhh.......wait a second. First - GET a department of Meteorology, and then you can run some lame smack. I can take all the trash-talking about athletics, but let's just leave it there, ok?
Vent over. No hard feelings.

Mike

--

Fair enough...how can WE help YOU?

R

[WeatherNole]

I'd say that weatherdurango gave the same advice that I would at this point.

These websites SHOULD be back up... therefore here's the people that need to be contacted...


The Provost of Florida State University: Lawrence Abele

labele@mailer.fsu.edu


The President of Florida State University: T.K. Wetherell


wetherell@mailer.fsu.edu

I may not know much more about the situation until next week, but if I do (and it's something that I can share), then I'll let you all know.

Thanks.

Mike

--

[SouthFloridawx]

Thanks weathernole, we'll all have to send a whole hearted message to them.

[Rainband]

As most know, I am on the other side of this issue and do not believe that model data should be released to those not in the field, due to the potential of misinterpretation, but thats just my view and not a popular one here

The Superensemble, I believe, is a commercial product and that is why it is not released

With all due respect.... give me a break. Anyone who knows how to find these models knows enough that they are used as a guide and can be wrong. There is a disclaimer... Misinterpretation can happen from watching the 6oclock news so that holds no water. We are in America last time I checked and until weather becomes top secret we are entitled to view what we want.

[Aslkahuna]

All US Government produced information that is not classified or restricted for security reasons is Public Domain (like all of those satellite images and the model data on NOAA sites). However, models privately derived from raw data or graphics devloped privately for the purpose of displaying model data in formats not available on the public sites is private information and access can either be restricted or users charged for access. That's why I always use the Public sites for accessing model runs.

Steve

[x-y-no]

Yes, NOAA/NWS/NHC are part of the US Government but FSU is not so unless you live in FL and FSU is state funded and not private you don't own it.

Steve

Well, I live in Florida, and FSU is funded by the state. So I do feel I own it to some extent.

[Rainband]

Yes, NOAA/NWS/NHC are part of the US Government but FSU is not so unless you live in FL and FSU is state funded and not private you don't own it.

Steve

Well, I live in Florida, and FSU is funded by the state. So I do feel I own it to some extent.

ditto

[x-y-no]

As most know, I am on the other side of this issue and do not believe that model data should be released to those not in the field, due to the potential of misinterpretation, but thats just my view and not a popular one here

Why don't we carry this one step further and say that model data should only be released to select corporate clients like Accuweather for whatever price the market will bear? I'm not sure why those of you "in the field" should be part of the priesthood if I'm not. And I'm not sure RSMAS has the bucks to compete in that marketplace, so you might find yourself limping along blindly with the rest of us slugs.

The Superensemble, I believe, is a commercial product and that is why it is not released

Well, the notion of a "commercial product" developed at a publicly funded university using public research grant money is a problematic one, to say the least. And as far as I can glean, that's the case with the FSU Superensemble. If you know different, please let me know.

In more general terms, while I certainly agree that those who have privately funded their research have a right to control their work product, such exclusiveness tends to retard scientific advancement. Thus I'm not pleased to see any trend towards restricting access to the products of public funding.

[weatherlover427]

As most know, I am on the other side of this issue and do not believe that model data should be released to those not in the field, due to the potential of misinterpretation, but thats just my view and not a popular one here

The Superensemble, I believe, is a commercial product and that is why it is not released

Typical pessimism and negativity from you. I should not be surprised and I expect nothing less from you, ma'am.

[clfenwi]

The issue of the FSU Superensemble and who owns it, has a right to it, etc is a far bigger one than FSU meteorology.

It is only one of the many patents held by FSU

Many of those patents are related to Taxol, which is an anti-cancer drug (related story).

This situation is not atypical. The University of Minnesota, for example holds a patent on Abacavir, an anti-HIV drug.

Those two schools are bush-leaguers compared to the schools on the 2004 top 10 patenters list

[P.K.]

As I have said before that type of thinking is in my opinion dangerous. Also, it goes against everything the science of meteorology stands for. In order to view internet models you have to :

1. Log on to the internet
2. Know where to go
3. Know how to open a model
4. Find the right map
5. Find the right run time
6. Find the representation of the cyclone on the map

Exactly, it isn't something you find by accident!!

All US Government produced information that is not classified or restricted for security reasons is Public Domain (like all of those satellite images and the model data on NOAA sites).

The Met Office data on there is not USA produced so I see no reason why that should be removed. They had permission from the Met Office to be displaying it.

Yes, NOAA/NWS/NHC are part of the US Government but FSU is not so unless you live in FL and FSU is state funded and not private you don't own it.

Steve

Well, I live in Florida, and FSU is funded by the state. So I do feel I own it to some extent.

It is the way the Met Office work here. We pay tax and then for instance I have to pay again to access the main radar network. Be careful the same doesn't happen over there.


Is it worth starting a joint UKweatherworld/Storm2K petition to try to get this reversed? There is interest from several people over here to do so.