FWIW- Joe B. chimes in about 2006 season in Houston

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GeneratorPower
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#41 Postby GeneratorPower » Fri May 12, 2006 10:25 am

Joe Bastardi wrote:http://hurricane.accuweather.com/hurricane/jb_hurricane_review2004.asp#ivan

Joe says in a 2004 article about Ivan...

"I violated my own rule of never changing a track forecast that is right. The fact that timing was off by 24 hours weighed heavily on me, so the track, for the 24 hours starting Friday morning, was taken to Florida. By doing so, it ruined, to me, what would have been the right call from the getgo. "


I want to take a minute to say somthing about this. Hurricane forecasting is a difficult science that is made easier by experienced forecasters working together. The NHC has several forecasters and a host of support personnel bouncing ideas off each other and working together.

I haven't read much of Joe B's stuff in the past so I decided to read a few more articles to get a feel for his style. What hit me was the fact that he uses personal pronouns like "I", "me", and "my" so often. What it illustrates is that it seems to be a one-man-show over there.

Oddly enough he also seems to be sincere about his methods and I'll give him credit for "thinking-outside-the-box" when it comes to forecasts. But the problem with being sincere is that you can also be sincerely wrong.

When a person is a one-man-show calling all the shots himself, he isn't tempered by other people with conflicting opinions and is bound to miss things, even big things.

That's why we have a President and Congress instead of a King. A king has absolute power and can decide things at his own whim. But Max Mayfield is like the President, with Congress working steadily with him to get the job done.

I think the NHC represents maturity and science, where as this article represents think-outside-the-box-let's-see-if-this-works type of thinking. I think the world needs people like Joe to keep the older guys on their toes. But it shouldn't be done in public where people are using his forecasts.

But I suppose the real problem is that people don't want to think for themselves and truly understand the basics of hurricanes and forecast tracks. They want a pre-packaged TV-Dinner forecast that they can follow like Zombies.

Following the NHC guidance like a zombie is just as bad as following the Accuweather forecast like a zombie. It's much better to take every forecast with a grain of salt and stay prepared all season.

But as Dr. Avila said in a Talkin' Tropics interview a few weeks ago, people will always come back to the expertise of the NHC.
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#42 Postby southerngale » Fri May 12, 2006 10:52 am

Air Force Met wrote:Well...we do know the article was in error: It was not the deadliest hurricane season ever...not even for the Gulf coast.


I noticed that too. I couldn't help but notice the first sentence as well, "While coastal residents from Louisiana to Alabama are still rebuilding lives and homes shattered by the deadliest U.S. hurricane season on record" -- hmmm, I guess those in SE Texas don't count, since they don't mention Texas. Every house in Sabine Pass was either completely destroyed or damaged so badly by Rita, it was uninhabitable. I won't mention all of the areas in Texas majorly affected. Also, what about Florida? They stop in Alabama. If I'm not mistaken, Dennis and Wilma did a number on coastal residents in Florida as well. It's like Katrina was the only hurricane last year, with comments like that.
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#43 Postby southerngale » Fri May 12, 2006 10:58 am

SouthFloridawx wrote:That is correct the nhc did not forecast for Ophelia to go into the gulf of mexico. Sometimes I wonder if accuweather puts out forecasts that attract attention to thier website in order to gain more subscribers.

No, I don't think they would just wildly put a storm crossing Florida into the GOM just to get subscribers. I remember that forecast, and I also remember some of the models showing that scenario. At the time, the NHC didn't know what Ophelia was gonna do either, but they won't make huge jumps in their forecasts like Accuweather will do, so they just kinda shifted it around a little until they had a better idea. If I remember correctly, the discussions did mention that some of the models showed it crossing Florida into the GOM, but I think they were waiting on more consistency with them.
So although it was obviously a bad forecast for Accuweather, it wasn't based on nothing and it was short-lived.
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#44 Postby Camille_2_Katrina » Fri May 12, 2006 11:02 am

Stratosphere747 wrote:I'm starting to wonder about this guy if he happens to have interests in the futures market.....

I'd also like to know if he actually quoted that "at least three at Category 3 or worse -- will slam into the nation's shores between now and late November, the unofficial end of the season."

With all due respect to Mr. Bastardi, to make a prediction like that is quite bold....


he made some BOLD predictions last year at this time... saying the area
between Houston and Pensacola should see a lot of action.

The man is Brilliant!
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#45 Postby southerngale » Fri May 12, 2006 11:11 am

Camille_2_Katrina wrote:
Stratosphere747 wrote:I'm starting to wonder about this guy if he happens to have interests in the futures market.....

I'd also like to know if he actually quoted that "at least three at Category 3 or worse -- will slam into the nation's shores between now and late November, the unofficial end of the season."

With all due respect to Mr. Bastardi, to make a prediction like that is quite bold....


he made some BOLD predictions last year at this time... saying the area
between Houston and Pensacola should see a lot of action.

The man is Brilliant!


Boy, was he right then. Nearly everything between Houston and Pensacola was pretty much destroyed by two disastrous hurricanes.
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#46 Postby Camille_2_Katrina » Fri May 12, 2006 11:14 am

it is scary... to make a prediction that far in advance...
that's what he does best
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#47 Postby Camille_2_Katrina » Fri May 12, 2006 11:46 am

Air Force Met wrote:Well...we do know the article was in error: It was not the deadliest hurricane season ever...not even for the Gulf coast.


that's the reporters error... not a quote from Joe.
just to clarify... I think that's what you were suggesting anyway :wink:
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#48 Postby jasons2k » Fri May 12, 2006 12:07 pm

WeatherEmperor wrote:
Extremeweatherguy wrote:
MWatkins wrote:
Extremeweatherguy wrote:
LarryWx wrote:
MWatkins wrote:Here's an objective analysis of the Katrina forecasts from Joe from last year:

http://www.tropicalupdate.com/verification_katrina.htm

You should see the Ophelia numbers...

MW


According to my records:
1) At one time, he had Ophelia hitting New Orleans.
2) At one time, he had Katrina going up the eastern seaboard in a Donna-like manner.


He never officially said that those storms were going to play out like that...he actually just gave those ideas as possibilities. Also, these ideas were given in the storms early days (when the NHC also had no idea where the system was going). He usually changed his tune within a few hours or days to a much better forecast.


Actually...in the spirit of fairness...he did produce a track forecast of Ophelia into the Gulf. I'll post the data if I get a chance later today...

MW


yes, but the NHC also had a similar forecast for Ophelia during the early stages. Nobody really knew what Ophelia was going to do until after it happened.


The NHC never had a similar forecast for Ophelia to get into the Gulf. I provided a link to the NHC archives of Hurricane Ophelia. Every single forecast advisory package is listed on that site. At the top of the page, please click on the "Graphics Archive" blue link to see every single forecast track graphic issued by the NHC for Ophelia and you will see they never forecast Ophelia to even come close to the Gulf. Although the NHC was not perfect on the forecast, they were much more consistent and accurate.

<RICKY>

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2005/OPHELIA.shtml?


True, but read the discussions. That tells the whole story. The NHC had little if any confidence Ophelia was going east. It was really a toss-up at the time. The NHC "officially" went east, and Joe. B. went with the GOM, but neither camp was confident in their projections.
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#49 Postby Camille_2_Katrina » Fri May 12, 2006 12:12 pm

Joe does his best at predicting what we will see in the coming season...
at least thats were he did best last year... That's what he's doing here
in the article... giving us his feel for what he sees this season holds for us.
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#50 Postby Steve » Fri May 12, 2006 4:00 pm

3 Cat 3 plus-es hitting the US? I missed that last time I read the article. I think it's reasonable, but would it be a second (or third)? I don't recall any season but last year where 3 IH's hit the US. I'm sure there were others, but still - 5 canes hit, 3 IH's? That's a fairly bold prediction regardless of whether or not it works out.

Steve
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#51 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Fri May 12, 2006 5:45 pm

Steve wrote:3 Cat 3 plus-es hitting the US? I missed that last time I read the article. I think it's reasonable, but would it be a second (or third)? I don't recall any season but last year where 3 IH's hit the US. I'm sure there were others, but still - 5 canes hit, 3 IH's? That's a fairly bold prediction regardless of whether or not it works out.

Steve


we did it in 2004 too. Charley, Ivan and Jeanne were all Cat. 3+ storms, and Frances was almost there.
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#52 Postby Steve » Fri May 12, 2006 6:57 pm

Yeah I forgot about Jeanne being a 3.

Steve
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#53 Postby benny » Fri May 12, 2006 10:16 pm

Extremeweatherguy wrote:
Steve wrote:3 Cat 3 plus-es hitting the US? I missed that last time I read the article. I think it's reasonable, but would it be a second (or third)? I don't recall any season but last year where 3 IH's hit the US. I'm sure there were others, but still - 5 canes hit, 3 IH's? That's a fairly bold prediction regardless of whether or not it works out.

Steve


we did it in 2004 too. Charley, Ivan and Jeanne were all Cat. 3+ storms, and Frances was almost there.


We would crush any 3 year record for MH hitting the USA if his prediction comes true.. not even close... 10 MH in 3 years... just mind boggling
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#54 Postby jaxfladude » Fri May 12, 2006 11:23 pm

:eek: :uarrow: :eek:
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