Katrina Death Toll May Never Be Known

[zlaxier]

By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press Writer
Fri Feb 10, 1:54 PM ET

NEW ORLEANS - Nearly six months after Hurricane Katrina, more than 1,300 bodies have been found, but the real death toll is clearly higher. How much higher, no one can say with any certainty.

Hundreds of people are still unaccounted for, and some of them — again, no one is sure how many — were probably washed into the Gulf of Mexico, drowned when their fishing boats sank, swept into Lake Pontchartrain or alligator-infested swamps, or buried under crushed homes, said Dr. Louis Cataldie, Louisiana medical examiner.

Cataldie noted that coffins, disgorged from the earth by the floodwaters, have been found great distances from their graveyards, and "if we have coffins that have washed 30 miles away, I can assure you there are people who have."

"The likelihood is there are people we will not find," he said.

New Orleans Coroner Frank Minyard said a final sweep of homes in the devastated Ninth Ward will be done this month with help from federal officials. After that, he said, any more bodies found will probably be discovered in out-of-the-way places by hunters or fishermen.

But neither he nor Cataldie would venture a guess as to how many how many undiscovered victims are out there.

The remains of 1,079 people have been recovered in Louisiana; an additional 231 were found in Mississippi. But Louisiana officials have information on roughly 300 people whose loved ones are desperately searching for them, months after the Aug. 29 storm struck the Gulf Coast and scattered the region's residents.

"I have people trying to close estates. I have lawyers calling me. I have people calling me, saying, `Do you have my momma?'" Cataldie said.

About 90 bodies remain unidentified at the morgue. In some cases, they will be identified and removed from the list of the 300 or so missing, but that could still leave hundreds unaccounted for, Cataldie said.

The list of those reported missing to the Find Family National Call Center, run by state and federal officials in Baton Rouge, has about 2,300 people on it. Some have already been found but have not been taken off the list because family members have not notified authorities. Others are on the lam, wanted for a crime or child support payments.

But it is the others who have not been seen or heard from by family members that Cataldie worries he will never have answers for.

Of the 2,300 on the list, most are from New Orleans, and nearly three-quarters are black. Before Hurricane Katrina, about two-thirds of New Orleans was black. Of the 668 Louisiana dead identified and released by the morgue, three-quarters were from New Orleans. About half were black, and 44 percent were white.

Denise Herbert, who waited months before hearing last month that her missing 82-year-old mother had been identified at the morgue, said it was a heartbreaking ordeal. "How would you feel if you didn't know where your mother was for one day? Imagine 4 1/2 months," she said.

In addition to the stress and uncertainty for the loved ones, the lack of a body can prevent the settling of estates, the transfer of property titles and the payout of insurance benefits.

Family members can obtain a court order declaring a missing person dead, if they can offer sufficient proof.

Susan Burkenstock, a New Orleans lawyer who chairs the Louisiana Bar Association's estates and probate section, said that so far, she has heard of few Katrina-related cases where families have sought such a declaration. But she said that is not surprising.

Families often take several months to take legal action after tragedies, Burkenstock said: "They don't really know what to do."

[MiamiensisWx]

Has anyone noticed that the Katrina disaster and death toll - both in New Orleans and in the rest of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama - is eeriely similar to what happened from the 1928 San Felipe Segundo-Okeechobee Hurricane, especially around Lake Okeechobee?

[Audrey2Katrina]

Yes, they are--as are the difficulties in finding the missing.

A2K

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

I would not be suprized if a thousand got pulled out into the Gulf. We will never know.

[ROCK]

Another reason when you are told to evac then evac. I just hope NO learned a valuable lesson just like Galveston did 100+ plus years ago....

[Ixolib]

Another reason when you are told to evac then evac. I just hope NO learned a valuable lesson just like Galveston did 100+ plus years ago....

Gotta wonder, though, had it not been for the very recent lesson of Katrina, would Galveston's residents have been as quick and willing in reaction to Rita's threat???

No matter what the source, lessons learned are lives saved...

[ROCK]

Another reason when you are told to evac then evac. I just hope NO learned a valuable lesson just like Galveston did 100+ plus years ago....

Gotta wonder, though, had it not been for the very recent lesson of Katrina, would Galveston's residents have been as quick and willing in reaction to Rita's threat???

No matter what the source, lessons learned are lives saved...

Down here in Texas we take any storm pretty seriously regardless of intensity. Galveston evacs are mandatory on the west end even for a strong TS. They seem to go fairly well in the past. My point was that Galveston built a sea wall and raised the island after 1900. I hope NO does something similiar.

[terstorm1012]

Has anyone noticed that the Katrina disaster and death toll - both in New Orleans and in the rest of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama - is eeriely similar to what happened from the 1928 San Felipe Segundo-Okeechobee Hurricane, especially around Lake Okeechobee?

They are STILL finding bodies(skeletons) I hear from that storm as development pushes into the 'glades.

[Pearl River]

We have mandatory evacuations here, but this does not force anyone to leave. When a mandatory evacuation is ordered, which this was the first ever for New Orleans, it basically means you are on your own and law, fire and ems will not respond to non-emergency calls or assist in evacuation when the storm begins.

[ROCK]

We have mandatory evacuations here, but this does not force anyone to leave. When a mandatory evacuation is ordered, which this was the first ever for New Orleans, it basically means you are on your own and law, fire and ems will not respond to non-emergency calls or assist in evacuation when the storm begins.

Same here on the west end/ Galveston. You stick around you are left on your own. Our evacs have happened many times with great success here in Galveston. I think NO should raise up the lower parishes or do away with them completely, strengthen the levees and then hope hurricanes don't get any bigger....best case scenario.

[Ixolib]

We have mandatory evacuations here, but this does not force anyone to leave. When a mandatory evacuation is ordered, which this was the first ever for New Orleans, it basically means you are on your own and law, fire and ems will not respond to non-emergency calls or assist in evacuation when the storm begins.

Same applies here in MS as well. I'd imagine ALL states' mandatory evacuations are generally based on that same premise. Yet another of the things that make being an a U.S. Citizen so unique in the world - freedom of choice, even if it may be bad for us...

[Hybridstorm_November2001]

If some one had told me early last year that this could happen in a Western Country in modern times I would have laughed in their face. Truly sad

[Pearl River]

There are still about 3500 unaccounted for. We may never know.

[Audrey2Katrina]

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind we'll never know about it. One wonders if this will wind up like the Galveston toll-count (and I do NOT mean in numbers before anyone jumps on that) inasmuch as the numbers given are from a low of 6,000 to a high of 12,000 depending on sources... too many unfound--in other words a RANGE rather than a count. I find myself guessing that perhaps in a year or two we'll see numbers of Katrina's death toll in the order of 1800-2500-3000, range. There isn't much doubt that when it's all said and done that at least 1,000 people will forever remain "missing" and unaccounted for. Whether or not they place any of those in the toll count will be a factor in getting a range (like Galveston, and even the Okechobee, I believe) as opposed to an exact or relatively precise number.

Yes it is very sad.

A2K

[HurricaneBill]

The thing with the Galveston count is that the 6000 is the lives lost on Galveston island. Sometimes, the other fatalities elsewhere get left out. However, the areas near Galveston also suffered heavy tolls.

Another storm with a range on its death toll is Audrey. Some list it as low as 390, while others list it as high as 550. I think it's closer to, if not above, 550.

[Audrey2Katrina]

Ahh, yes, Audrey, I remember that one too. Even where we were, I recall it as a child the winds picking up my Dad's backyard hammock and blowing it up the driveway and into the street--it was my first experience with what a hurricane was, I recall my mom saying it was that "storm" hitting Cameron Parish. Poor Cameron Parish certainly will never forget it, and you are correct. I've heard estimates from 300-600 on the death toll from that monster. I believe she was later classified a 4 at landfall.

A2K

[Derek Ortt]

Same applies here in MS as well. I'd imagine ALL states' mandatory evacuations are generally based on that same premise. Yet another of the things that make being an a U.S. Citizen so unique in the world - freedom of choice, even if it may be bad for us...

Florida does have a total evacuation law, which was invoked, inappropriately, IMO, for Ivan and not for Wilma, when it should have been. The drawback is that if invoked inappropriately, future mandatory, but not total evacuation orders are not heded

[Audrey2Katrina]

Same applies here in MS as well. I'd imagine ALL states' mandatory evacuations are generally based on that same premise. Yet another of the things that make being an a U.S. Citizen so unique in the world - freedom of choice, even if it may be bad for us...

Florida does have a total evacuation law, which was invoked, inappropriately, IMO, for Ivan and not for Wilma, when it should have been. The drawback is that if invoked inappropriately, future mandatory, but not total evacuation orders are not heded

That is very true. I believe that a LOT of the folks who decided to stay for Katrina did so because of the monstrous evacuation the previous year for Ivan, which fortunately for us (not so for the Ala/Florida folks) veered away and hundreds of thousands again clogged the highway system making a 4-5 hour drive into an 18-20 hour drive. I grant you, with this thing's size and heading, it was foolhardy to remain; but I know of several people who did cite the Ivan thing as a reason for staying. Sort of a "boy crying wolf" scenario in their eyes--BAD analogy.

A2K

[Derek Ortt]

yeah... the boy that cried wolf scenario is a major problem

a mandatory and especially a TOTAL evacuation order should never be issued until there is a hurricane warning. The problem with the Keys was that this was issued 24 hours before the earliest possible hurricane watch would have been issued. As it turned out, only a TS Watch was issued for the Keys, after the forced evac. If this regulation of a total evac (which should only be used for a major hurricane) was in place, then maybe we would eliminate the wolf scenario. Storngly recommend an evac during a Watch or before, maybe even make it mandatory, but no total evacuations until a warning

[Pearl River]

I believe the reason for the total evacuation order was because there is only one way in/out of the Keys. I think what we saw here, the Ivan situation may rear it's ugly head again. If we were to clear out N.O, it would take a 72 hr lead time and unfortunately that means a storm anywhere from the east coast of Florida to the Yucatan Channel depending on the forward motion and of course we know that is too far out to issue a mandatory evacuation.