Pascal & Bernoulli principles combined weaken hurricanes

[cyclonekiller]

Yep I know that. You must also remember that as the water sinks it is also mixing with the warmer water below it thus cooling it. I have calculated that 330,000,000 million cubic feet of water per hour exit each of the 1500 tunnels that span the 40 mile cross section of the gulf stream.

Please provide that data. Give the diameter and flow rate. Give the length of each tube...the depth to which it is placed. If this is on a simple 2-4 knot current because of the bernoulli principle, please explain how you get 333,000,000 million cubic feet of water per hour...which is
333,000,000,000,000 or 333 trillion cubic feet of water per hour.



Provide the data...don't just give the numbers. Give your formulas for coming up with your data.

Ok I calculte each tunnel to be 750 feet long 500 feet deep to tap into 60 degree water. We need at least 1000 tunnels to span the 40 mile cross section of the gulf stream. Each tunnel is 50 feet tall by 200 feet wide. The 60 degree water exits the tunnel a 5 mph.The Euopean Chunnel is 5 times longer and was dug under ground and underwater by comparison. This is an easy project for man to do. We choose to go to the moon because it is hard I once heard. Where has that American spirt gone?

[Air Force Met]

Ok I calculte each tunnel to be 750 feet long 500 feet deep to tap into 60 degree water. We need at least 1000 tunnels to span the 40 mile cross section of the gulf stream. Each tunnel is 50 feet tall by 200 feet wide. The 60 degree water exits the tunnel a 5 mph.

Uhhhh...you are so lost. Are the tunnels 750' long...or 50'?

Do you not even get the concept of a cylinder? IF your tunnel is 50' tall and 200' wide...and exits at 5 mph...then your 330 million cubic feet per hour is WAY off. That's simple math...and your not even doing that right.

And you think this is a 10 Billion dollar project? Basically 10 Million Per tunnel...in the middle of the ocean?

You do realize the Chunnel cost 13 billion...and that was with just one long tunnel. The Big Dig has cost that much if not more.

Give it up...you're not even getting basic volume equations close to right...and your cost "projections" are enough to make the most liberal of politicians blow milk through their nose.

I really do believe you are a troll...because nobody can be this confused or lost.

[Air Force Met]

Ok I calculte each tunnel to be 750 feet long 500 feet deep to tap into 60 degree water. We need at least 1000 tunnels to span the 40 mile cross section of the gulf stream. Each tunnel is 50 feet tall by 200 feet wide. The 60 degree water exits the tunnel a 5 mph.The Euopean Chunnel is 5 times longer and was dug under ground and underwater by comparison. This is an easy project for man to do. We choose to go to the moon because it is hard I once heard. Where has that American spirt gone?

Hey...here's a concept...answer the questions you've been asked over and over again but keep dodging (this is the forth time).

1) You finally answered this one.

2) You said there would be no harm to marine life in the Gulf, since the Gulf temps in winter were already used to being in the low 70's. I made the statement that since you wanted to lower summer time Gulf temps into the mid 70's that this would mean wintertime gulf temps would then be lowered into the upper 50's to low 60's. What will the impacts on marine life be in the Gulf when water temps are lowered to that level (since the only reason winter temps are in the low 70's is because summer temps are in the mid 80's).

3) Who is going to pay for the $35+ trillion dollars it would take to do this project? This is 35 trillion in materials alone for the gulf alone. Add labor.

4) Since the Gulf temps would be lowered year around, this would mean more heat in the tropics and less heat transported to the mid-lats...thus a greater temp difference...which is the key ingredient for severe weather. Add to this a plan for the Gulf stream and you also icrease this temp contrast for Europe. The question is: What will happen to winters north of 35N and what will happen to the severe weather season given the fact the jet stream energy will increase and the temp delta will also increase (meaning parameters for summer and winter severe weather will increase)?

5) In lowering the Gulf Stream Temperature and the loop current temp, what will be the net result on the THC? and how will this effect European Winters?

[James]

Ok I calculte each tunnel to be 750 feet long 500 feet deep to tap into 60 degree water. We need at least 1000 tunnels to span the 40 mile cross section of the gulf stream. Each tunnel is 50 feet tall by 200 feet wide. The 60 degree water exits the tunnel a 5 mph.The Euopean Chunnel is 5 times longer and was dug under ground and underwater by comparison. This is an easy project for man to do. We choose to go to the moon because it is hard I once heard. Where has that American spirt gone?[/quote]

But the Chunnel had its base starting on land and was nowehre near the immense project that this is. Furthermore, I believe that the Chunnel project ran horrendously over budget. You could easily expect this to happen with your senario.

[DoctorHurricane2003]

Of course that is unless he uses that magic flexible material that won't get destroyed by hurricanes he was talking about on weatherzone

[James]

Of course that is unless he uses that magic flexible material that won't get destroyed by hurricanes he was talking about on weatherzone

A cheap, flexible material? How about Play Doh. It has about the same amount of credability to it.

No offence, it's just that you have not given anything resembling a sound argument.

[vbhoutex]

Yep I know that. You must also remember that as the water sinks it is also mixing with the warmer water below it thus cooling it. I have calculated that 330,000,000 million cubic feet of water per hour exit each of the 1500 tunnels that span the 40 mile cross section of the gulf stream.

OK...let's assume you really meant 330 million cubic feet per hour. That is 92,000 cubic feet per second per tunnel. Right?

Ok...now. Let's ASSUME that each of the tunnels are 20' in diameter...which is really large...because any larger and you are going to have big problems with current and cost...but I will still make the calculations because I will still win this argument and show that you don't know what you are talking about.

OK...at 92,000 cu/ft per sec with a 20' diam. tube, the water exiting the tube must be moving at 294 feet per second...or 200 mph. Now...somehow I think the bernoulli principle has nothing to do with this. Please explain to me how you are going to get 5,700,000 lbs of water per second moving at over 200 mph?

With a 50' diameter tube, the water existing the tube at 100 mph. How do you plan on moving this amount of water at 100 MPH?

With a 200' diameter tube...the water must still be moving above 6 mph.

So...in order for your bernoulli principle to work (which it won't)...and for you to arrive at your 330 million cu ft per hour, you need a tube that is a little over 250' in diamter... or 785' around...and because of the size it will need to be several inches thick.

Your production cost just went well beyond my original 35 trillion dollar estimate.

Do you still wish to continue a scientific debate?

Try at least 3' thick if not more like 7'-10' thick wall thickness. The largest pipes I deal with in civil engineering construction are on the range of 10' in diameter and the wall thickness for those is on the order of 11". I'm not even going to attempt to calculate the cost, weight and manufacturing costs for one pipe!! To be really conservative about it they would be astronomical!! For pipes that large there would have to be whole new technologies developed just for the construction and manufacturing. Sorry, but it just isn't feasible monetarily.

Now you are up to 1500 pipes. Earlier it was 1000. Please make up your mind.

And your reference to the Chunnel just helps negate your cost argument since it is 2 small utbes(by comparison) which cost several billions to build. Let's multiply 500(1000/2) by 8B(I may be off a little here)-that is $4,000,000,000,000 for that many chunnel tubes.(I think they are 30' in diameter) 250/30=8.333x4T=$30,000,000,000,000-That appears to be more in line with AFM's estimate and just a little over the $10B you came up with. And once again that does not include design and engineering fees or any other contingencies.

OOPS!!!!! The chunnel was $13B. You plug the numbers in. I am tired!!!

[DoctorHurricane2003]

Super Spandex, IMO. We can build the tunnels out of 10 Million wetsuits

[James]

Super Spandex? I think you might be onto something there.

[cyclonekiller]

Ok I calculte each tunnel to be 750 feet long 500 feet deep to tap into 60 degree water. We need at least 1000 tunnels to span the 40 mile cross section of the gulf stream. Each tunnel is 50 feet tall by 200 feet wide. The 60 degree water exits the tunnel a 5 mph.

Uhhhh...you are so lost. Are the tunnels 750' long...or 50'?

Do you not even get the concept of a cylinder? IF your tunnel is 50' tall and 200' wide...and exits at 5 mph...then your 330 million cubic feet per hour is WAY off. That's simple math...and your not even doing that right.

And you think this is a 10 Billion dollar project? Basically 10 Million Per tunnel...in the middle of the ocean?

You do realize the Chunnel cost 13 billion...and that was with just one long tunnel. The Big Dig has cost that much if not more.

Give it up...you're not even getting basic volume equations close to right...and your cost "projections" are enough to make the most liberal of politicians blow milk through their nose.

I really do believe you are a troll...because nobody can be this confused or lost.

Who said a tunnel had to be a cylinder? Get a grip.

[James]

A cylinder would be better equipped to deal with the immense pressures of water in question.

[DoctorHurricane2003]

He is right with that, we could make the tunnel in the shape of Barney the Dinosaur. I bet the equations would be fun for that.

[James]

He is right with that, we could make the tunnel in the shape of Barney the Dinosaur. I bet the equations would be fun for that.

Lol, unlike Barney the Dinosaur, I don't see this coming to life just when we imagine it.

[cyclonekiller]

A cylinder would be better equipped to deal with the immense pressures of water in question.

Perhaps, on one side.

[James]

I would have thought on both sides. That's why tunnels and pipes tend to be built as cylinders, isn't it?

[HurryKane]

A cylinder would be better equipped to deal with the immense pressures of water in question.

Perhaps, on one side.

Wow, all seven years of my engineering education just came shooting out my nose along with some Diet Coke. That has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read.

[Air Force Met]

And your reference to the Chunnel just helps negate your cost argument since it is 2 small utbes(by comparison) which cost several billions to build. Let's multiply 500(1000/2) by 8B(I may be off a little here)-that is $4,000,000,000,000 for that many chunnel tubes.(I think they are 30' in diameter) 250/30=8.333x4T=$30,000,000,000,000-That appears to be more in line with AFM's estimate and just a little over the $10B you came up with. And once again that does not include design and engineering fees or any other contingencies.

OOPS!!!!! The chunnel was $13B. You plug the numbers in. I am tired!!!

I knew we needed an engineering type person in this discussion.

OK cyclonekiller...deal with the cost estimate and tell us how you came up with your 10 Billion for 1000 (or is is 1500) pipes?

Go ahead...the "world" is waiting.

[Air Force Met]

A cylinder would be better equipped to deal with the immense pressures of water in question.

Perhaps, on one side.

Wow, all seven years of my engineering education just came shooting out my nose along with some Diet Coke. That has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read.

You can imagine what the 19 years of meteorological education and experience is doing to me...right?


I know you're not supposed to feed the trolls...but when you are bored...it's sometimes kinda fun.

[cyclonekiller]

And your reference to the Chunnel just helps negate your cost argument since it is 2 small utbes(by comparison) which cost several billions to build. Let's multiply 500(1000/2) by 8B(I may be off a little here)-that is $4,000,000,000,000 for that many chunnel tubes.(I think they are 30' in diameter) 250/30=8.333x4T=$30,000,000,000,000-That appears to be more in line with AFM's estimate and just a little over the $10B you came up with. And once again that does not include design and engineering fees or any other contingencies.

OOPS!!!!! The chunnel was $13B. You plug the numbers in. I am tired!!!

I knew we needed an engineering type person in this discussion.

OK cyclonekiller...deal with the cost estimate and tell us how you came up with your 10 Billion for 1000 (or is is 1500) pipes?

Go ahead...the "world" is waiting.

Of course we a talking about external pressures on the tunnel not the internal pressures. Correct?

[DoctorHurricane2003]

Just in case you are confused...



Note the smooth rounded edges to the cylinder, and how the object that is not a cylinder has sides.