Wilma top sustained winds below 85 mph in Dade, Broward

[curtadams]

On the topic of Mr. Fujita... wasn't his primary area of study tornadoes? With respect to that, wouldn't his statement of maximum winds causing damage be more applicable to tornado damage. Katrina seemed to suggest that sustained winds of hurricane force over the course of hours and hours causes equal devastation to winds of higher categories over a short period of time. Also, a study of Wilma over the Yucatan (possibly the best case of extended periods of sustained winds) would help this.

Fujita was indeed a tornado expert but that statement was based on extensive analysis of Hurricane Andrew damage. Of course, as a tornado expert he would be intensely aware that it's possible to totally obliterate a structure with negligible 1 min winds.

Katrina doesn't say anything about whether the primary damage is from gusts/microbursts or sustained winds because she had gusts too and a longer period in sustained winds means a higher chance of encoutering a gust as well.

[Derek Ortt]

I'm with the University of Miami, not with the HRD, though they do work with us on many research projects and are just across the causeway

[Tri-State_1925]

Was Andrew really a Cat 5 over land in sustained winds or were the sustained winds in the 140mph range in Homestead and Cutler Ridge and the real damage were caused by the 175mph-200mph 2-3 second gusts and microbursts?

That's a great question...one I was thinking about as I scanned the thread.

I've been wondering for a while what the Andrew upgrade report said about microbursts vs. sustained winds. All you kept hearing about was microbursts in the first few years after Andrew, but then they upgraded the sustained winds.

[f5]

if Wilma's winds were CAT 1 or 2 that did that damage then they are in deep trouble when a hurricane the strength of andrew and the size of Katrina comes along

[Bgator]

This is BS...Katrina here had 75mph winds and this was MUCH MUCH worse, Mobila homes are destroyes, Roff tiles blew off my New roof, which shuld easily withstand winds higher than 85mph, and Microbursts would be isolated, this was way to widespread, BTW i still have no power, im on a generator!

[Aslkahuna]

Fujita was also the person who theorized that intense damage swaths associated with tornadoes were due to mesoscale stuctures within the tornadic vortex-which has since been proven to be the case. Since Andrew was, for all intents and purposes, merely a large tornado in the eyewall swath, he was merely upscaling his theory. Satellite imagery (and radar on occasion) now tell us that mesoscale vortices can and do exist withing the eyes of intense storms and it's not unreasonable to expect that small areas of stronger winds in the eyewalls may be found adjacent to these vortices.

Steve

[f5]

This is BS...Katrina here had 75mph winds and this was MUCH MUCH worse, Mobila homes are destroyes, Roff tiles blew off my New roof, which shuld easily withstand winds higher than 85mph, and Microbursts would be isolated, this was way to widespread, BTW i still have no power, im on a generator!

Wilma came in as a strong CAT 3 almost a CAT 4 moving at 25-30 mph which didn't give it time to weaken all that much

[Derek Ortt]

Katrina had about 65 m.p.h. winds inland. The hurricane force winds were confined to the beaches and causeways

The only thing thats BS is people saying Wilma in Dade was above cat 1 just because it had to be

[zlaxier]

But Downtown Miami and the Brickell area got Cat 1 winds during Andrew and got the same winds during Wilma, yet the damage with Wilma was much more severe as far as entire high-rise buildings in Brickell having their windows blown out.

For instance, look at the Colonial Bank Building, NOTHING during Hurricane Andrew approached this level of destruction in Brickell.

So why was the damage with Wilma more severe than Andrew in Brickell if the winds were the same?

[Derek Ortt]

I believe that there was more flying debris because it came from the west, picking up debris from across the entire Peninsula instead of coming from the ocean and not having debris

Much of this damage would not have occurred had people have had storm shutters

[f5]

But Downtown Miami and the Brickell area got Cat 1 winds during Andrew and got the same winds during Wilma, yet the damage with Wilma was much more severe as far as entire high-rise buildings in Brickell having their windows blown out.

For instance, look at the Colonial Bank Building, NOTHING during Hurricane Andrew approached this level of destruction in Brickell.

So why was the damage with Wilma more severe than Andrew in Brickell if the winds were the same?

Andrew was small compact Wilma was much larger also her eye was 60 miles across

[zlaxier]

But that shouldn't make any difference in the winds received. It was a compact storm, thus Brickell got Cat 1 winds with Andrew. If it wasn't compact, it would have gotten Cat 3 or 4 winds.

And you can't shutter up those glass high-rises. The newer buildings have hurricane resistant glass. The main point I read is above 60 feet, while the windows are resistant to winds and pressure for very high levels or should be anyway, they didn't expect much flying debris so the impact glass rating was only up to 120mph rather than the 146mph required by code below 60 feet.

This should probably be re-evaluated.

How would the direction of the wind effect the amount of flying debris? Downtown Fort Lauderdale is a few miles inland from the coast and the damage from the Brickell buildings weren't right on the water. Are you saying the hurricane is picking up debris from miles and miles inland over land? I only thought strong tornados could do that...

[Brent]

Katrina had about 65 m.p.h. winds inland. The hurricane force winds were confined to the beaches and causeways

Precisely. As I said up thread, most people who experience a hurricane do NOT experience hurricane force winds(usually the winds are confined to the eyewall).

[Derek Ortt]

85-100 mph winds can pick up small peices of debris from miles away. It only takes a pebble treveling at those speeds to cause a window to shatter

[gatorcane]

I really couldn't imagine what a CAT 3 or higher would do here in South Florida

[Brent]

I really couldn't imagine what a CAT 3 or higher would do here in South Florida

It would be a <$100 billion hurricane. It would also be a nightmare trying to evacuate everyone.

[WeatherEmperor]

I really couldn't imagine what a CAT 3 or higher would do here in South Florida

It would be a <$100 billion hurricane. It would also be a nightmare trying to evacuate everyone.

Yeah I agree with you. Thats why the very next major hurricane that comes towards South Florida should do it for me and force me to move elsewhere.

<RICKY>

[Scorpion]

I really couldn't imagine what a CAT 3 or higher would do here in South Florida

Well a Cat 3 would bring Cat 1-2 winds since the 3 winds would be confined to the shore. So it wouldnt be that much different.

[Brent]

I really couldn't imagine what a CAT 3 or higher would do here in South Florida

Well a Cat 3 would bring Cat 1-2 winds since the 3 winds would be confined to the shore. So it wouldnt be that much different.

What about a Katrina(2nd landfall) size hurricane? The damaging winds extended over a LARGE area and were prolonged.

[Derek Ortt]

Scorpion,

2 words for you... Miami Beach

the high rises are right on the immediate coast; thus, cat 3 winds would be experienced by those high rises