Northern GOM landfalls

[jasons2k]

Sometimes, we get lucky...examples:::

Ivan, Dennis, Lili

Sometimes, we get them as Cat 4-5....examples:::

Camille, Frederic, Katrina

I thought Frederic was a strong Cat 3.

Frederic was a 4.

From NHC:

Rank Hurricane Year Category (at landfall) Minimum Pressure (mb) Minimum Pressure (in):

27 Frederic (AL, MS) 1979 3 946 27.94

[Brent]

Yeah... Frederic was a 3. That was the big hurricane for the state before Opal and Ivan.

It may have been called a 4 on the advisories(like Ivan), but it was a 3.

[f5]

On rare occasions, northward moving hurricanes are embedded in the eastern flows of strong troughs (troughs very pronounced even at 300 mb levels) -- in such cases, rapidly moving hurricanes retain surface form and intensity into higher latitudes; examples: Hazle in 1954, the 1938 Great New England Hurricane (with hurricane windfield still intact in Ontario); I have to wonder what were the surrounding dynamics that preserved Camille's Cat 5 intensity at its MS landfall?

i believe Camille rode the 90 degree loop current you know the one that gave us Katrina&Rita the twin CAT 5s

[john potter]

But, f5, the hot, deep loop water doesn't extend to LA and MS landfall areas and the shallow shelf waters that abut LA and MS beaches -- Camille must have benefited from something other than sustained high SSTs all the way to landfall.

[tornadochaser86]

camille was a tropical storm at landfall 65 mph sustained winds

[alicia-w]

what are you talking about? Camille was NOT a TS at landfall. She was a CAT 5 at landfall.

[f5]

Tropical storms do not leave concrete slabs such as camille did

[vbhoutex]

Tornadochaser86 has been suspended. That was not the only post such as that from this person today.

[Derek Ortt]

Camielle, like Katrina, was a major hurricane at landfall. Maybe not a 5, but still a major hurricane

[timNms]

Camielle, like Katrina, was a major hurricane at landfall. Maybe not a 5, but still a major hurricane

According to your expertise, Derek, has a catagory 5 ever hit the US anywhere other than Florida?

[MGC]

Charley a midget, you bet ya. I was in Orlando shortly after Charley came though. Yea, it was bad but nothing compared to the wind damage on the coast. Orlando had a walk in the park with Charley compared to the landfall area. You want to see wind damage, come on over to Mississippi....MGC

[f5]

Charley a midget, you bet ya. I was in Orlando shortly after Charley came though. Yea, it was bad but nothing compared to the wind damage on the coast. Orlando had a walk in the park with Charley compared to the landfall area. You want to see wind damage, come on over to Mississippi....MGC

be careful with your wording Ortt will say it was surge instead of wind

[Derek Ortt]

There was extensive wind damage in Mississippi, comparable to what Arcadia went through in Charley. Borderline 2/3 sustained. That is what Arcadia received in Charley, and it was nearly leveled. Thats what those winds do to all areas other than a fortress

As for the parts of the USA to be hit by a 5. There, in my opinion based upon analysis have been 3.

1. The Lake Okeechobee cane when it hit PR
2. 1935 FL Keys
3. Andrew

very hard to get one farther north due to the low heat content near the coast. However, had Katrina had half of the dynamical support that Rita had, it easily would have came in as a 5 since its MPI was about 800mb according to some of our simulations, while Rita was only about 10mb from its MPI

[jes]

I heard that later they reconsidered and classified Frederic as a marginal Cat 4 --- whatever difference that makes -- strong 3 vs weak 4. It did come straight over my house (in Mobile) because I remember the quiet of the eye.
As far as the winds of Katrina --- I think half of Mississippi is here in Mobile for awhile. I've talked to lots of them and most say it was storm surge. Don't you remember the pictures someone from this board posted showing houses completely ruined ---- yet I noticed the shingles on the roofs of those homes looked pretty good --- the homes were a little inland. Katrina was a wierd storm. It did strange damage in Mobile. It was like Katrina's winds whipped around instead of going straight --- I'm not quite sure how to explain it. She definately was fierce even though her winds weren't that strong here.

[Scorpion]

There was extensive wind damage in Mississippi, comparable to what Arcadia went through in Charley. Borderline 2/3 sustained. That is what Arcadia received in Charley, and it was nearly leveled. Thats what those winds do to all areas other than a fortress

As for the parts of the USA to be hit by a 5. There, in my opinion based upon analysis have been 3.

1. The Lake Okeechobee cane when it hit PR
2. 1935 FL Keys
3. Andrew

very hard to get one farther north due to the low heat content near the coast. However, had Katrina had half of the dynamical support that Rita had, it easily would have came in as a 5 since its MPI was about 800mb according to some of our simulations, while Rita was only about 10mb from its MPI

Wow, 800 mb. Do you think it is possible to get a 850 mb hurricane under ideal conditions?

[wxmann_91]

It is almost impossible for a hurricane to go to 800 mb, so in fact too much heat content could be bad for hurricanes, puts a cap on the dynamical support.

I've also noticed something else. A weakening Cat 4 hurricane landfalling in the shallow northern GOM has more surge potential than a Cat 5 making landfall in Miami, interesting how the same shallow waters that weaken hurricanes right before landfall along the Gulf Coast can help amplify the surge. And likewise, the deep waters of the Florida coast that actually allow a Cat 5 to make landfall would mitigate the surge potential.

[f5]

It is almost impossible for a hurricane to go to 800 mb, so in fact too much heat content could be bad for hurricanes, puts a cap on the dynamical support.

I've also noticed something else. A weakening Cat 4 hurricane landfalling in the shallow northern GOM has more surge potential than a Cat 5 making landfall in Miami, interesting how the same shallow waters that weaken hurricanes right before landfall along the Gulf Coast can help amplify the surge. And likewise, the deep waters of the Florida coast that actually allow a Cat 5 to make landfall would mitigate the surge potential.

that picture of Katrina you have under your name i just can't believe the GOM was large enough to support a hurricane of that size

[MiamiensisWx]

Here is wxmann_91's avatar picture in a more full size...

[f5]

Here is wxmann_91's avatar picture in a more full size...

she is one giant buzzsaw .it reminds me of james and the giant peach in this case it was the GOM and the giant typhoon

[djones65]

Wxman57,
Frederic was a large hurricane. It's eye was some 40 miles in diameter and Ocean Springs was INSIDE the western eyewall not outside. The calm of the eye came over eastern portions of the city of Gautier as well as Pascagoula and rural areas of Mobile county. If you look at some of the satellite imagery (I have some I collected when it hit- I was 14 years old) there was an unusual assymetry to the convection in which the coldest and most intense convection was in the northwest portion of the eyewall. I live in Ocean Springs and we were in the eyewall, although the calm of the eye was experienced approximately 11 miles east of us. Reliable wind measurements are difficult to come by as with all landfalling hurricanes, but Ocean Springs without a doubt experienced sustained category 2 winds. The winds dropped off dramatically as you went west of Ocean Springs as Biloxi and Keesler which is about 8 miles west experienced minimum hurricane force at most.