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azsnowman
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And we worry about terrorists

#1 Postby azsnowman » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:01 am

All this talk about terrorist attacks, Al whatever they are, is really getting old when news like this just keeps getting worse............I know there are MANY threads about this Avian Flu (I've got one) but this is DOWNRIGHT SCARY :cry:


http://www.azcentral.com

Not ready for outbreak
Can world avoid flu pandemic?

Kerry Fehr-Snyder
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 4, 2005 12:00 AM

Infectious-disease specialists in Arizona and around the world are planning for a flu pandemic they call inevitable - if not this year, then soon.

But whether their plans can stem a worldwide flu outbreak is doubtful, critics say.

The reasons: advertisement





• A tiny national stockpile of anti-viral medication to treat those already sick or exposed to a pandemic flu strain.


• An insufficient supply of effective vaccines.


• A lack of capacity at Arizona hospitals to handle a big surge of critically ill patients.

Estimates of the potential worldwide death toll from a flu pandemic today range from 5 million to 150 million, according to the United Nations. In the United States, a pandemic could kill 89,000 to 207,000, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says.

The most likely source of a pandemic flu now is a virulent bird flu that has killed dozens in Asia who handled infected birds.

State officials have been working on a pandemic flu response for five years, but their plan, like the federal draft plan so far, is skimpy on details. However, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services is finishing a more detailed plan to be unveiled as early as this week. It may request billions of dollars more from Congress.

Scientists fear the lack of a thorough plan will leave officials and citizens as ill-prepared as the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

"We're way off where anyone thinks we need to be," said Kim Elliott, deputy director of the Trust for America's Health, a non-profit group based in Washington, D.C.

In Arizona, for example, health officials have not stockpiled anti-viral medication because of the cost.

"We don't have the budget or the capacity to have a stockpile of such medication in the state," state epidemiologist David Engelthaler said.

In the event of an outbreak, vaccine and anti-viral medication would be allocated on a priority basis, according to Arizona's draft plan. But the plan doesn't detail criteria.

Among its few specifics, the plan cites several strategies to detect and control a flu pandemic, including:


• Discharging all but critically ill hospital patients to make room for flu patients.


• Expanding mortuary services to handle the dead.


• Ramping up state health lab testing to identify flu pandemic strains.


• Isolating and quarantining residents who are exposed to the virus or are ill from it.

State health officials say they're doing the best they can but may need to ration resources.

"There's a lot of discussions about the ethical use of public health resources during an emergency," said Engelthaler, who helped engineer the state pandemic flu plan.

Setting priorities ahead of time is difficult, especially for the distribution of anti-viral medication and vaccines, said Will Humble, the Arizona Department of Health Services' chief of public health preparedness.

"The whole key to this thing is, it's just like a forest fire. You've got to put it out quickly," Humble said. "Pandemic flu is always an A-list thing with us as far as public health preparedness because viruses from the beginning of time have been nature's Number 1 terrorist."

U.S. officials have stockpiled 2.3 million doses of anti-viral medicine, which must be taken within 48 hours of flu symptoms occurring. The medicine also can ward off infection if enough is taken before exposure.

Federal officials eventually want to buy enough anti-viral medicine to treat 20 million people and inoculate another 20 million with a new flu vaccine now under development. Whether new funding sought from Congress will cover the goal is unclear.

It's also unclear when the vaccine and other experimental vaccines against new flu strains will be available for use, reports the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, part of the National Institutes of Health. Last week, the federal agency said it will test multiple vaccines against novel strains that could trigger a pandemic.

Federal and state pandemic plans also are vague about who falls into the "priority" group for treatment and vaccines. The draft federal plan, released last summer, doesn't say who should be inoculated and treated first, though the updated plan may do so.

National vaccine advisory groups have recommended health care workers be inoculated first, followed by government leaders and public health workers who are responding to a pandemic. At the bottom of the list are healthy individuals, ages 2 to 64, even though some pandemics struck that age group the hardest.

Topping the recommended list of those who should get anti-viral medication are hospitalized flu patients, health care workers, pandemic health responders and highest-risk outpatients.


A deadly source
The most likely source of a flu pandemic is a deadly bird flu now picking up steam in Southeast Asia. At least 140 million birds in Asia have been slaughtered to prevent the spread of the H5N1 avian influenza strain.

Wildlife experts have not found any birds in North America with the virus, although they are keeping tabs on Alaska, where migratory patterns suggest it would strike first. There is no such surveillance in Arizona.

Health officials are even more concerned about the prospect of people who contract the H5N1 virus at the same time they are infected with another, more common flu virus that is easily spread among humans.

Although the disease so far has not been transmitted easily human to human, experts fear the H5N1 strain could mutate after it infects a human or other mammal.

"With enough changes to the virus, it can theoretically maintain its lethality and become more transmissible. And that's what keeps us up at night," said Dr. Andrew Pavia, chairman of the Infectious Diseases Society of America's task force on pandemic influenza.

Pavia told Congress in May that "the United States is woefully unprepared for a pandemic that might occur in the next few years."

Since the strain was first detected in people in 2003, it has infected 116 people, killing 60 in four countries, according to the World Health Organization's most recent count posted Thursday. Experts are worried by the seemingly high 52 percent mortality rate, although it's unclear whether more people with milder cases of the H5N1 flu were ever counted.

Amid the uncertainty of a super bug, many people are frightened.

"I work on this stuff 24/7, and I'm really scared of it," said Elliott, of Trust for America's Health, adding that she keeps a supply of anti-viral medicine, Tamiflu, for her family, at home in case of an outbreak. "You can see this coming. With three pandemics each century, we're way overdue."

It is impossible to determine where a pandemic flu outbreak would occur or how many people would become or ill or die because there are too many variables.

What infectious-disease experts worry about most is that a pandemic would hit young and otherwise healthy adults harder than usual. In an average year, 36,000 Americans die of the flu complications, but most are elderly or have weak immune systems.

By contrast, during the Spanish flu of 1918-19, the immune system of young, healthy adults worked against them, possibly by going into hyperdrive. Their skin often turned blue, they vomited blood and hemorrhaged to death.


The Spanish flu
The Spanish flu occurred at a time when influenza vaccines did not exist; doctors didn't even understand that the flu was caused by a virus back then. But even today, vaccines wouldn't necessarily stem an outbreak because it would be difficult to make enough shots quickly enough to protect vast swaths of society.

Even with the best planning, there may not be enough vaccines to stem the tide of infections in an outbreak, many experts fear. The plan to purchase enough vaccine for 20 million would fall far short of the U.S. population of about 300 million.

The current experimental H5N1 vaccine isn't as potent as other flu vaccines and would require four times as much antigen to stimulate production of antibodies against the strain. Plus, people would need two doses each of vaccine to be protected.

At the most, 5million doses of the vaccine could be produced each month for a total of 60 million doses over a year. That would cover about 30million people, one-tenth of the country's population.

"We're not very prepared today. We don't have adequate supplies of vaccines, and we can't possibly have adequate supplies of vaccine until there are better methods of production and of stretching vaccine supplies," said Marc Lipsitch, an associate professor of epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health.




Producing medicine
Developing an adequate supply of anti-viral medicine also is a problem. The medicine would be used to treat both those infected with a pandemic flu strain and those who have been exposed but exhibit no symptoms yet.

The only anti-viral medicine that would work against a pandemic strain like H5N1 is oseltamivir, which is sold by prescription under the name Tamiflu and is made by one manufacturer, Roche.

The WHO is stockpiling the medicine so it can ship it to countries as soon as an outbreak occurs in hopes of controlling it.

Individual countries also are creating their own stockpiles because most experts believe when a pandemic begins, most won't be in the sharing mood and instead will attempt to nationalize their supplies.

Only less than 1 percent of the U.S. population would be covered by the current supply stockpiled in the U.S.


Not enough hospital beds
For their part, hospitals likely would have to discharge all but the most critically ill patients to make room for those sick with the flu in a pandemic.

"The question becomes not how many beds you have but how many beds you can staff," said Dr. Richard Thomas, system director of emergency and continuity management at Banner Health, the largest hospital system in Arizona.



Banner Health is working on a plan that would detail how many beds would be used for critically ill flu patients in a pandemic. It hopes to have the plan ready by November, Thomas said.

In addition to discharging non-critical patients and isolating flu patients, hospitals would cancel all elective surgeries during a pandemic to make way for flu patients and contain the virus' spread.

"We run so close to capacity all the time. I think there will be some very important public health decisions that are made," Thomas said.

Those decisions will be akin to the response to the recent hurricanes that wiped out New Orleans and the Gulf Coast.

"There's no doubt that a pandemic flu is the Category 5 of infectious-disease outbreaks," said Engelthaler, of the state health department.

Elliott, of Trust for America's Health, said she attended a conference recently in which predictions were dire.

"We're watching a pandemic unfold but in slow motion," she said. "Katrina gave us all a real-time wake up call that if you don't prepare, there will be hell to pay."
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#2 Postby O Town » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:21 am

I really hope they can get a hold on this before it causes mass death. This whole thought makes me feel sick. I really worry about my family since we all fall into the group that would be last on the list to recieve vaccines. Ages 2-64. I think if this thing broke out here in the states we would never leave the house. I would be home schooling my kids because viruses run rampid in the schools. How down right scary. :(
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#3 Postby feederband » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:47 am

I have always thought that the thing that wipes out the human race will be something we can't even see... :eek:
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#4 Postby arkess7 » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:39 pm

wow that is scary........if we had an outbreak here....i think me and my family would all turn into hermits and never leave the house.......uggg!!! :eek:
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#5 Postby beenthru6 » Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:34 pm

WHO has recently drastically reduced the number of projected deaths should this turn pandemic. The first numbers were up to a billion worldwide, and now it is anywhere from 7 million to 50 million according to Nabarro or up to 360 million if you listen to Osterholm. Not sure if the reduction is based on actual science, or if they are just trying to reduce the panic that is sure to hit if this goes pandemic. Regardless, the numbers are all over the board. I am also convinced that we are woefully unprepared.
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#6 Postby Terrell » Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:01 pm

Sounds like a good reason to fund research to find vaccines against bird flu, and other viruses.
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#7 Postby Cookiely » Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:22 pm

Did anyone see the Presidents press conference today? They were primarily discussing the appointment of the Justice of Supreme Court until someone through in a question about the bird flu. I don't understand why USAMRID would be in charge of quarantine intead of CDC. Anybody have any ideas?
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#8 Postby azsnowman » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:15 pm

Cookiely wrote:Did anyone see the Presidents press conference today? They were primarily discussing the appointment of the Justice of Supreme Court until someone through in a question about the bird flu. I don't understand why USAMRID would be in charge of quarantine intead of CDC. Anybody have any ideas?


No I didn't see it, if I did, well, let's leave it at THAT :wink:

ANYWAY, what is the USAMRID? If it's ANYTHING like FEMA, then we're ALL in DEEP DOO DOO!!

Dennis
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#9 Postby BEER980 » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:22 pm

Well I have tried to ring this bell several times in the past azsnowman. Now for the USAMRIID issue, it don't look too much better either. I grew up 15 miles from Fort Detrick. Here is their Site
USAMRIID, (Fort Detrick, Maryland) conducts basic and applied research on biological threats resulting in medical solutions to protect military service members.

USAMRIID, an organization of the U.S. Army Medical Research and Materiel Command, is the lead medical research laboratory for the U.S. Biological Defense Research Program. The Institute plays a key role as the only laboratory in the Department of Defense (DoD) equipped to safely study highly hazardous infectious agents requiring maximum containment at biosafety level (BSL)-4.

As the center of excellence for DoD medical biological defense research, USAMRIID’s challenge is to maintain its world-class scientific and technology base while being responsive to its primary customer—the warfighter.
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#10 Postby azsnowman » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:17 am

All I can say is, I HOPE to HADES they FIGURE OUT WHO'S gonna RUN things, I can see it now, this WILL be WORSE than the FEMA flub up :x


http://www.azcentral.com

Bush suggests military to enforce quarantines

Warren Vieth
Los Angeles Times
Oct. 5, 2005 12:00 AM

WASHINGTON - President Bush expressed concern Tuesday about the threat of a global flu pandemic and said Congress should consider letting the U.S. military play a broader role in enforcing quarantines and other emergency measures.

Bush said the possibility of a virulent new strain of avian influenza spreading rapidly around the world raises difficult questions about a president's ability to direct an effective domestic-response effort and the federal government's authority to carry it out.

Flu pandemics have tended to occur about three times a century, following the emergence of a new influenza virus to which humans have developed no immunity. advertisement




The last such outbreak was in 1968. The deadliest was the 1918 pandemic that killed as many as 50 million people worldwide and an estimated 675,000 in the United States.

"I'm not predicting an outbreak," Bush said. "I'm just suggesting to you that we'd better be thinking about it. And we are. ... We're trying to put some plans in place."

World health authorities have become increasingly alarmed about the pandemic potential of a lethal strain of avian influenza called H5N1, which has killed millions of birds and about 60 people who came into contact with them since it was first detected in Asia in 1997. Scientists have cited initial signs the virus may be mutating into a form that could spread rapidly from human to human and possibly trigger a pandemic.

Bush said his concern was heightened when he recently read The Great Influenza, a book by John M. Barry, who described the devastation of the 1918 pandemic and mistakes made by federal, state and local authorities in the United States that worsened its impact.

Asked about avian flu during a White House news conference, Bush said the potential risk of an outbreak is great enough to justify a more aggressive preparedness campaign.

Bush said one option would be to deploy the U.S. military to provide the kind of rapid command and control measures needed during a pandemic. He asked Congress to consider the need for legislation to expand the federal role.

Doing so would require changing laws that restrict the role of active-duty troops in domestic emergencies, a possibility raised in response to the government's problematic response to Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

Some military officials have expressed skepticism about assuming more responsibility in such situations, and some lawmakers have voiced concern about the diminished authority of state officials and the National Guard units they control.
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#11 Postby Windsong » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:39 am

This is another reason to beef up your supplies. Do you really think a 72 hour kit is going to help you in the event of a quarintine? If the avian flu is rampent in your area, do you REALLY want to stand in a government line to get food and water with all the sick people? Will there BE a government line to stand in?

We already know from Katrina that our system does not/can not support a mass scale disaster. It will not take long for desperation to set in. Are YOU ready? The calvery ain't coming. There ain't no good guys. The ones they send will be there to keep you from leaving.

Have plenty of food and water, ammunition and weapons. You will need them when this happens. Not IF it happens...WHEN it happens. Given the facts it is irresponsible to not prepare. If the government is already coming out with "it could be this year or next year when the avian flu becomes an issue" which means that they fully expect a pandemic and they fully expect to have to put things in place to control the masses. If you don't know what that means, take a look at history. You will not like what you see.

No, I am not a survivalist with a bunker and a uzi. I am beginning to wish I was though :eek:
Windsong
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#12 Postby GalvestonDuck » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:44 am

Here's hoping physicians and researchers here at UTMB can find an answer for us all.

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/515086/?sc=rsmn

Newswise — The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) of the National Institutes of Health has awarded scientists at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston a $1.4 million contract to study how well antiviral products work to treat or prevent naturally occurring influenza infections—one of them the much-feared H5N1 virus, which often causes lethal disease in infected people.

Since 2004, the H5N1 bird flu strain has killed about half of the more than 100 people it has infected in eight countries of southeastern Asia. However, it does not yet appear to be easily transmitted between people. Nonetheless, scientists fear that it may soon evolve to do so, potentially triggering an extremely deadly global epidemic, known as a pandemic.

If the virus mutates to allow it to be contagious from person to person, “we’re afraid it could be as serious as the 1918-1919 influenza pandemic, which is estimated to have killed more than 20 million people worldwide,” said Dr. Slobodan Paessler, project leader for the UTMB flu testing contract. “In a flu epidemic, usually about 25 percent of the population gets infected. In the United States, which now has almost 300 million people, we could reasonably expect more than 70 million infections with the new virus strain. We don’t know whether the very high mortality we have seen so far would be experienced in such a pandemic. But if it were to cause even a significant fraction of the percentage of deaths as does the current bird flu in eastern Asia, it would be a disaster of historic proportions.”

Two classes of antiviral drugs are used to treat influenza virus infection, and both are being tested in the UTMB project: M2 inhibitors, which are believed to block early replication of the virus, and neuraminidase (NA) inhibitors, which hinder the enzymatic activity of NA that is believed necessary for the virus to reach its target cells. Amantadine and rimantadine are in the first category and have been used effectively to treat influenza A virus infections for many years. Studies have shown a low incidence of resistance to these drugs among currently circulating influenza viruses. But their use is rising worldwide, and drug resistance has been reported among influenza A (H5N1) viruses isolated from both poultry and human beings in Asia. The high frequency of resistant viruses where these drugs have been used extensively over time suggests that their future usefulness will be limited.

Last May a World Health Organization expert panel also warned of partial H5N1 viral resistance to the NA inhibitor oseltamivir. In preparation for a possible pandemic, experts say, it is critically important to evaluate various antiviral drugs that may be of therapeutic use, not only to check for viral resistance but also so the medications may be used as an alternative to existing drugs to treat influenza.

Studies under this contract will evaluate currently licensed and new influenza drugs.

The year-long UTMB project plans to test the drugs oseltamivir, peramivir and amantidine in ferrets, animals often used in similar flu studies because they are believed to best reflect human influenza. Oseltamivir and amantadine are licensed, commercially available prescription products; peramivir has not yet been licensed for human use by the Food and Drug Administration. The drugs will be administered orally and, in the case of peramivir, intramuscularly as well, both before and after separate groups of animals have been infected with either the less-lethal H3N2 strain of flu or the H5N1 strain.

Paessler said two top flu and respiratory disease researchers from Baylor College of Medicine—Drs. Robert B. Couch and Philip R. Wyde, professors of molecular virology and microbiology—will collaborate in the research, along with UTMB respiratory disease researchers led by Dr. Norbert J. Roberts, professor of internal medicine specializing in infectious diseases. The scientists will conduct the experiments with the less-lethal strains first, Paessler said, starting in November, and will progress next to test the drugs in the animals exposed to the H5N1 strain in UTMB’s biosafety level 4, maximum-containment laboratory.

UTMB’s Sealy Center for Vaccine Development is one of 10 entities empowered under contract to propose to do test-tube and animal studies for emerging diseases and biodefense in response to NIAID “task orders,” according to Dr. Lawrence Stanberry, director of the center. “We’re excited about how this contract mechanism allows the government to very quickly recruit the best talent in the country to do such work,” said Stanberry, who serves as principal investigator for the new flu contract and also for previously awarded contracts to study the safety and effectiveness of medical countermeasures against anthrax, plague, tularemia and other threats.
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#13 Postby beenthru6 » Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:54 pm

Windsong wrote:This is another reason to beef up your supplies. Do you really think a 72 hour kit is going to help you in the event of a quarintine? If the avian flu is rampent in your area, do you REALLY want to stand in a government line to get food and water with all the sick people? Will there BE a government line to stand in?

We already know from Katrina that our system does not/can not support a mass scale disaster. It will not take long for desperation to set in. Are YOU ready? The calvery ain't coming. There ain't no good guys. The ones they send will be there to keep you from leaving.

Have plenty of food and water, ammunition and weapons. You will need them when this happens. Not IF it happens...WHEN it happens. Given the facts it is irresponsible to not prepare. If the government is already coming out with "it could be this year or next year when the avian flu becomes an issue" which means that they fully expect a pandemic and they fully expect to have to put things in place to control the masses. If you don't know what that means, take a look at history. You will not like what you see.

No, I am not a survivalist with a bunker and a uzi. I am beginning to wish I was though :eek:
Windsong


Hubby just bought a 9mm and is looking for a nice shotgun also. I am desperately trying to get my pantry stocked and get a really complete first aid kit set up (ought to have one of those anyway regardless). Yeah, the thing that keeps grabbing my attention is the constant wording of "when" not "if". To be honest, I am much more concerned about people who won't be prepared than I am about this flu.
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#14 Postby BEER980 » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:28 pm

I would vote for a 12 gauge Mossberg.
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#15 Postby azsnowman » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:44 pm

BEER980 wrote:I would vote for a 12 gauge Mossberg.



GOOD choice but I've always owned a Remington shotgun. I've got a Remingtom Model 870 Wingmaster, 28" barrel with a full choke, the pattern holds solid for 25 yrds and then fans out at approx 35-40' It takes a 2 3/4" shell or a 3" magnum (goose load)

Dennis 8-) :2gunfire:
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#16 Postby Aslkahuna » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:47 pm

Need to beef up my water supply a bit but I definitely have over a month's supply of canned foods and a month's supply of bottled gas for the campstove. Will need to beef up the battery supply for the emergency lights and battery operated TV. I guess the next thing is a firearm and ammunition.

Steve
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#17 Postby azsnowman » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:49 pm

We stocked up on groceries shortly after Katrina due to rising gas prices etc, my chest freezer is STUFFED with meat, I've got enough supplies/food/ammo to last a GOOD 90 days if not LONGER!!

Dennis
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#18 Postby BEER980 » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:10 pm

As a side note has anyone paid any attention to the OU bombing last weekend and what has been uncovered? I was going to post the story when it broke but it sounded like a nonevent.
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#19 Postby Windsong » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:00 pm

beenthru6 wrote:
Windsong wrote:This is another reason to beef up your supplies. Do you really think a 72 hour kit is going to help you in the event of a quarintine? If the avian flu is rampent in your area, do you REALLY want to stand in a government line to get food and water with all the sick people? Will there BE a government line to stand in?

We already know from Katrina that our system does not/can not support a mass scale disaster. It will not take long for desperation to set in. Are YOU ready? The calvery ain't coming. There ain't no good guys. The ones they send will be there to keep you from leaving.

Have plenty of food and water, ammunition and weapons. You will need them when this happens. Not IF it happens...WHEN it happens. Given the facts it is irresponsible to not prepare. If the government is already coming out with "it could be this year or next year when the avian flu becomes an issue" which means that they fully expect a pandemic and they fully expect to have to put things in place to control the masses. If you don't know what that means, take a look at history. You will not like what you see.

No, I am not a survivalist with a bunker and a uzi. I am beginning to wish I was though :eek:
Windsong


Hubby just bought a 9mm and is looking for a nice shotgun also. I am desperately trying to get my pantry stocked and get a really complete first aid kit set up (ought to have one of those anyway regardless). Yeah, the thing that keeps grabbing my attention is the constant wording of "when" not "if". To be honest, I am much more concerned about people who won't be prepared than I am about this flu.


Exactly. It won't take long for supplies to choke off, and the unprepared will then be in survival mode. The desparation factor will escalate quickly and the only "help" will be standing at the boarders of munchkin land with orders to shoot to kill. Just look at Katrina and multiply times 10K. That will be the support we don't get. Count on it.

Windsong
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#20 Postby kevin » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:07 pm

Because you can’t starve us out
And you cant makes us run
Cause one-of- ‘em old boys raisin ole shotgun
And we say grace and we say Ma’am
And if you ain’t into that we don’t give a damn

We came from the West Virginia coalmines
And the Rocky Mountains and the and the western skies
And we can skin a buck; we can run a crop line
And a country boy (or a pirate!) can survive
Country folks (or pirates!) can survive
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