It's time to restructure FEMA

[Ixolib]

So maybe all the negative stories we've been hearing about FEMA dragging their feet or putting roadblocks in front of the process are media hype and not the truth?
Wouldn't be interesting if it was the media creating these stories and they aren't based in reality?
I know for a fact that FEMA paid thousands to Metro-Dade in Florida last year and that was one area not affected by the hurricanes at all. Of course, it was an election year and Jeb's brother was running. Again, pretty interesting.

Well... I'm not saying they are perfect. No federal agency that I know of is. All I'm saying is that in many cases they have served the needs of many the people in many areas. In my observation, many of the ones who are screaming foul are those who are less inclined, as a life's practice, to take personal initiative for themselves - both now and before the storm - to get the ball rolling. Equally in my observation, the ones who do take initiative are generally the ones who get results. To a great degree, I do believe the media has taken this story out of context and focused on the exceptions rather than the rule. But if I'm wrong, history will prove that out. And let's still not forget that Katrina was/is an exceptional challenge on which no other benchmark exists for comparison and lesson-learning for anyone - FEMA included.

[Rob Beaux]

I'm still waiting for that "good neighbor" to be there as well.

Hey he works for Farm Bureau. Dont slam me, I was only relating what he said. I dont have any stake in this at all. I was just passing along info in the hope that it might help

As far as flooding, if it was from surge then yeah your screwed but anything from wind I would complain too as long as your policy does cover it-otehr wise then you dont have a leg to stand on.


As far as FEMA..they need to be out from under DHS.

[Mississippi Storm Magnet]

I'm still waiting for that "good neighbor" to be there as well.

Hey he works for Farm Bureau. Dont slam me, I was only relating what he said. I dont have any stake in this at all. I was just passing along info in the hope that it might help

As far as flooding, if it was from surge then yeah your screwed but anything from wind I would complain too as long as your policy does cover it-otehr wise then you dont have a leg to stand on.


As far as FEMA..they need to be out from under DHS.

I agree. FEMA needs to be out from DHS.

Sorry, I am just irritated with the whole insurance business.

I'm one of the rare people who actually bought flood insurance, so I can't figure out why State Farm would take so long with me. I lost my roof (wind) so SF will have to fork out some money, but not nearly as much as someone without Flood Insurance. See photos:





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[HurryKane]

You rinsurance company is slowed down because of the MS AG filing the suit to cover flood damage on nonflood policies. It in affect places an injunction on settleing claims on houses that may have been in the flooded area. My nieghbor is an adjuster and said this is hurting the people who need the help the most. Good luck.

I have to disagree witheh AG, flood insurance is a national program for those who dont have it on thier policys. But that might be to political for this board.

Rob, that's a load. Some people who have Met life, etc, ALREADY have their money. I have State Farm, and they have been terrible neighbors. After this is settled, I will be changing carriers.

I'm still waiting for that "good neighbor" to be there as well.

Yeah, me too. Although I did hear (unconfirmed) that State Farm has 80% of the Katrina claims in Mississippi.

Still waiting on the FEMA blue roof I applied for a week and a half ago as well. But I got the evacuation dough from them.


Also, read this fun little story to see how even with flood insurance you're likely to get worked over: http://tinyurl.com/br655

[oneness]

OT: Prime example of why softwood should be banned from usage in gabled roofing in areas exposed to tropical systems landfalling periodically. Not a cheap material when you have to rebuild a structure after exposure to sustained cat 1 or cat 2 winds.

[Ixolib]

OT: Prime example of why softwood should be banned from usage in gabled roofing in areas exposed to tropical systems landfalling periodically. Not a cheap material when you have to rebuild a structure after exposure to sustained cat 1 or cat 2 winds.

Which is why I'm highly in favor of a hip roof - with hurricane straps. It'll be interesting to see the comparison of gable roof failures to hip roof failures when the dust settles on this season... I wonder if FL has any stats on that issue from last year??

[Doc Seminole]

Downdraft,

I'll get to FEMA in a second, but first I have a question for you. What do you think of charging folks that need to be rescued if they stay in a mandatory evacuation area? How about paying for MRE's and bottled water.... at least for those whose homes are not ruined or obliterated? Maybe folks would think twice about not being prepared. Just a thought.

Now to anyone.......
FEMA.... What the heck is the REAL responsibilty of FEMA?

Everyone cries for FEMA but I really don't get what the deal is. I can see temporary housing assistance but what else are they suppose to do?

They paid a guy I know $19,000 last year for a pole barn and were writing checks like mad to folks who bought generators and COULD afford them. What I heard they were doing was driving me nuts. But like it has been said, it was an election year and Florida was a key state.

One more vent..... If I see another car floating around I am going to SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHERE, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, IS COMMON SENSE


Doc Seminole

[timNms]

I wasn't going to get into this, but here goes.

Fema let a lot of people down. Gene Taylor (D) from Mississippi said today that he gives Fema an F-. He said "You guys fell flat on your faces". They set up a relief site at Biloxi High after Katrina, but unfortunately, that was not where the need was. Many people had no means of getting to that centralized location. I believe that Fema needs to look at the local churches and other intities to see what they did to get the materials to the people who needed them. For goodness sakes, the EM in that area had to LOOT the local wal-mart and grocery stores to get needed supplies to the people! (Words directly out of Gene Taylor's mouth). He was on Scarborough Country tonight on MSNBC.

This, of course happened in Katrina. I surely hope that Fema did a much better job with the needs of the people after Rita.

[Ixolib]

I wasn't going to get into this, but here goes.

Fema let a lot of people down. Gene Taylor (D) from Mississippi said today that he gives Fema an F-. He said "You guys fell flat on your faces". They set up a relief site at Biloxi High after Katrina, but unfortunately, that was not where the need was. Many people had no means of getting to that centralized location. I believe that Fema needs to look at the local churches and other intities to see what they did to get the materials to the people who needed them. For goodness sakes, the EM in that area had to LOOT the local wal-mart and grocery stores to get needed supplies to the people! (Words directly out of Gene Taylor's mouth). He was on Scarborough Country tonight on MSNBC.

This, of course happened in Katrina. I surely hope that Fema did a much better job with the needs of the people after Rita.

But Tim, let's remember that FEMA is a Federal Agency whose mission it is to react to the local need in times of emergency. And you can bet that in any other circumstance - non weather related - the locals would tell the feds to kiss off if they were trying to dictate city, county, or parish business.

If anything went wrong, I believe it was FIRST based on the local EMs, mayors, city councils, parish presidents, law enforcement, etc., NOT having an effective plan in place waaaaaaay beforehand. But even if they "thought" they had a good plan in place, I still find it very difficult to blame any one of them - FEMA included - for ineffective reaction to an historical and unprecedented event like Katrina. How does one "effectively" prepare for the unthinkable?

Then with Rita less than a month later, there was not enough time or resources in place to develop an effective plan - no matter where she had hit. I guess I'm just saying that 2005 is not the time to find or place blame. Now, if the same happens in 2006 - I'll be pointing fingers and yelling blame as loud as the next guy. But even then, it's gotta start at the local level, and if it doesn't work then, that's where the blame will be.

[oneness]

FEMA included - for ineffective reaction to an historical and unprecedented event like Katrina. How does one "effectively" prepare for the unthinkable?

Isn't that FEMA's full-time day job? Do they do anything else?

[Doc Seminole]

But Tim, let's remember that FEMA is a Federal Agency whose mission it is to react to the local need in times of emergency.

Okay, there you have it, FEMA's mission is to react to the local need in times of emergency. Has anyone defined exactly what that "reaction" should be? Do even the folks at FEMA know exactly what they are suppose to do? Seriously, I have looked at http://www.FEMA.gov and it is kind of wide open. Kind of like shooting buckshot at an elephant.


Thanks in advance,

Doc Seminole

[timNms]

I wasn't going to get into this, but here goes.

Fema let a lot of people down. Gene Taylor (D) from Mississippi said today that he gives Fema an F-. He said "You guys fell flat on your faces". They set up a relief site at Biloxi High after Katrina, but unfortunately, that was not where the need was. Many people had no means of getting to that centralized location. I believe that Fema needs to look at the local churches and other intities to see what they did to get the materials to the people who needed them. For goodness sakes, the EM in that area had to LOOT the local wal-mart and grocery stores to get needed supplies to the people! (Words directly out of Gene Taylor's mouth). He was on Scarborough Country tonight on MSNBC.

This, of course happened in Katrina. I surely hope that Fema did a much better job with the needs of the people after Rita.

But Tim, let's remember that FEMA is a Federal Agency whose mission it is to react to the local need in times of emergency. And you can bet that in any other circumstance - non weather related - the locals would tell the feds to kiss off if they were trying to dictate city, county, or parish business.

If anything went wrong, I believe it was FIRST based on the local EMs, mayors, city councils, parish presidents, law enforcement, etc., NOT having an effective plan in place waaaaaaay beforehand. But even if they "thought" they had a good plan in place, I still find it very difficult to blame any one of them - FEMA included - for ineffective reaction to an historical and unprecedented event like Katrina. How does one "effectively" prepare for the unthinkable?

Then with Rita less than a month later, there was not enough time or resources in place to develop an effective plan - no matter where she had hit. I guess I'm just saying that 2005 is not the time to find or place blame. Now, if the same happens in 2006 - I'll be pointing fingers and yelling blame as loud as the next guy. But even then, it's gotta start at the local level, and if it doesn't work then, that's where the blame will be.

You are right. Fema is a federal agency whose job it is to respond to the local needs in times of emergencies. But when the local emergency management agencies are flat on their faces after a crisis such as this, someone in Fema should have the intelligence to step in and make sure the needs of the people are being met!

Fema failed in that mission according to one of Mississippi's state representatives. (Gene Taylor) Also, according to Joe Scarborough, who said he was there and witnessed some of those failures. He says that goods were shipped into the area via Florida and Fema refused to accept those goods. I can't say that this is true or false because I wasn't there to see it. But if it is true, what in the world was Fema thinking? It would appear to me that they had no idea what THEY were doing.

I find it hard to blame those on the local level. From what I heard Taylor say, local officials were doing the best that they could under the circumstances. Again, I wasn't there and can't say for certain, but it would appear that the local officials' plans were on target with what was expected. However, Katrina fooled a lot of people, those of us well inland included. For crying out loud, we did not see an ice truck until the Saturday AFTER the storm!! All communications were knocked out here. Local police and sheriff offices lost their ability to communicate even by radio. As you mentioned, how does one plan for such an event when something of that magnitude has never happened before? But one would think that we, as American's, should be able to expect a better response from our government than what shown after Katrina. Did FEMA have people in place prior to the storm? Were food supplies placed near the area, ready to be delivered as soon as the storm moved past? Were rescue personnel in place ready to move in?

[Downdraft]

Downdraft,

I'll get to FEMA in a second, but first I have a question for you. What do you think of charging folks that need to be rescued if they stay in a mandatory evacuation area? How about paying for MRE's and bottled water.... at least for those whose homes are not ruined or obliterated? Maybe folks would think twice about not being prepared. Just a thought.

Now to anyone.......
FEMA.... What the heck is the REAL responsibilty of FEMA?

Everyone cries for FEMA but I really don't get what the deal is. I can see temporary housing assistance but what else are they suppose to do?

They paid a guy I know $19,000 last year for a pole barn and were writing checks like mad to folks who bought generators and COULD afford them. What I heard they were doing was driving me nuts. But like it has been said, it was an election year and Florida was a key state.

One more vent..... If I see another car floating around I am going to SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHERE, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, IS COMMON SENSE


Doc Seminole

I'm not sure you can charge for stupidity. If they stay they pay sounds great but you can't let people go thirsty or hungry either. I agree some type of charge for failing to evacuate would be nice but I just don't see it happening.
You and I both saw FEMA in action last year. If you had the money to buy a generator or chain saw they would reimburse you. If you didn't have the money in the first place tough luck. It seems to me they should have helped those that couldn't afford one not those that could.

[timNms]

Doc Seminole [/quote]

I'm not sure you can charge for stupidity. If they stay they pay sounds great but you can't let people go thirsty or hungry either. I agree some type of charge for failing to evacuate would be nice but I just don't see it happening.
You and I both saw FEMA in action last year. If you had the money to buy a generator or chain saw they would reimburse you. If you didn't have the money in the first place tough luck. It seems to me they should have helped those that couldn't afford one not those that could.[/quote]

I agree with you. Those who had the money to buy a generator did not need the financial help. HOwever, there are many in this area who could have used a generator, but could not afford to buy one.

[oneness]

But Tim, let's remember that FEMA is a Federal Agency whose mission it is to react to the local need in times of emergency.

Okay, there you have it, FEMA's mission is to react to the local need in times of emergency. Has anyone defined exactly what that "reaction" should be? Do even the folks at FEMA know exactly what they are suppose to do? Seriously, I have looked at http://www.FEMA.gov and it is kind of wide open. Kind of like shooting buckshot at an elephant.


Thanks in advance,

Doc Seminole

Ok, a little opinion bit follows:

Seems to me there was a dangerous drift away from core imperatives, objectives and priorities within FEMA's executive leadership and management structure. When a Federal agency performs so poorly at its primary core function there’s going to be a lot of scalps taken.

For that executive and structure to not have immediately grasped the scale of the situation, could not be any more damning and revealing.

People with direct no BS experience of powerful tropical cyclonic storms, both in the US and from their experience in other tropical countries, would only have had to have a 30 second look at the visible satellite image, 12 hrs from landfall, and read the forecast, to know they would need many times more emergency response people and resources than Ivan required a year earlier. It's inexcusable that it took the best part of a week for this to dawn.

The lack of such experienced people in positions of direct authority made it impossible to firstly grasp the situation (unbelievable to me that a well-funded emergency management agency should be that incapable and out of its depth!). And secondly, when FEMA finally began to respond in ernest, it responded dinosaur-like. All muscle and girth but not much smarts pulling the levers.

I viewed a sound-bite of a certain FEMA representative getting very uppity with an official inquisitor today, and all I could think was … what gall … the man has no shame!

I don’t think FEMA deserves a citizen’s ‘understanding’ of their ‘difficulties’ because you won’t get high-performance in a well-remunerated and financially lubricated agency by allowing excuses and lowering requirements and expectations of performance to record low levels.

You set the bar higher.

Those with the most power have the most responsibility.

[cyclone_eye]

I wish to put the role of FEMA into perspective.

FEMA is responsible for responding to emergencies in every state. It's role is defined under the so-called "Disaster Law" (Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act).

FEMA operates through 10 Regional Offices which cover every state and is responsible for Mitigation, Preparedness, Response, and Recovery.

Where the emergency in the affected states exceeds the ability or resources of the state to cope and recovery on their own, supplemental FEMA assistance is required and under the Stafford Act this is triggered when:

1. When the President declares an "emergency" (which he did BEFORE Katrina)

2. When the President declares a "major disaster".

What is an emergency?

- Any Occasion or Incident Beyond the Capabilities of the State or Local Government.
- A Threat to Life, Safety, or Property
- Federal Assistance is Necessary

What is a major disaster?

Any natural or man-made catastrophe which in the determination of the President causes damage of sufficient severity and magnitude to warrant major disaster assistance under the Stafford Act to supplement the efforts and resources of the State, local governments and disaster relief organizations.

FEMA is largely responsible.

Some people say "Well, FEMA is not clairvoyant, how were they supposed to know the scale of the disaster".

I agree they are not clairvoyant but there is such a thing as "impact forecasting" where they can assess the type of damage to be expected based on the approaching hurricane, its strength, its forecasted position of landfall, and the infrastructure or human lives in its path. based on that information pre-positioning of resources is in order. Those resources were pre-positioned but may have been inadequate.

Enough said but one more thing .... I understand that technical assistance to FEMA has been offered by several Caribbean nations and some have been accepted.

[Stephanie]

Thank you cyclone_eye for that recap. Straight and to the point.

Even though the State of Louisiana and the city of New Orleans didn't seem to do what they should've done to ensure the safety of their citizens, this disaster is more than a state can handle on it's own. We already knew of that potential days before she struck.

[themusk]

Splitting FEMA into a natural disasters response agency and a civil defense agency would be a terrible mistake, because the difference in response to the two is minimal at best. It's not an accident that the two duties are intertwined. You would have two agencies dedicated to functionally idential things. Pretty quickly you'd start to see, in the case of major disasters, both agencies, out of necessity, mobilized in case of a disaster/attack.

All you'd end up with, really, is two redundant agencies, stealing resources from each other and costing twice as much as if they were one, functioning with twice the bureaucrats.

[artist]

was anyone aware that FEMA was prepositioned in the Superdome with water and food before Katrina hit? They were.

[oneness]

was anyone aware that FEMA was prepositioned in the Superdome with water and food before Katrina hit? They were.

And what a debarkle that was ...