ATL: LEE - Models

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chaser1
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#861 Postby chaser1 » Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:56 pm

crimi481 wrote:I am 95% sure the forecast track is correct - and so was John Hope and NHC back then. Just a flash back.


Maybe it's PTSD lol, but I certainly noticed that mid level 500 mb extention take shape on some of the forecast models (especially the HAFS A & B) between tomorrow and Wednesday. I didnt perceive it so much as "a southwestward extention" of the ridge to the north of the storm as much as a newly developing ridge around the Florida Straits. It really did make me think back to Andrew. Circumstance were a little different Andrew was initially tracking more westward under a more shallow low level flow but by the time its inner core deepened, strong ridging had already developed. But? Who's to say that Lee couldn't track even slower then forecast and the current (or new) steering 500 mb ridge turn out to have even higher heights forcing a nearly stalled Lee to suddenly press on westward. Unlikely but NOT impossible.
Last edited by chaser1 on Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#862 Postby Hybridstorm_November2001 » Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:12 pm

Hurricaneman wrote:Looking at the current movement in terms of speed the Euro seems more correct as it seems the GFS is too fast with Lee


I have noticed the GFS being too fast (so far) with Lee as well today.

If Lee is "late" for the GFS track by a day or two the Euro could well be correct with its New England landfall scenario. The synoptic pattern projected to be on the East Coast by Sunday/Monday of next week is progressive to an extent so the steering currents would not match up with a Friday/Saturday pattern giving the Atlantic Ridge time to rebuild a bit further westward.

An interesting week of model watching could be ahead.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#863 Postby Hybridstorm_November2001 » Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:15 pm

gatorcane wrote:
crimi481 wrote:Memories of Andrew. The troughs lifted out -north, ridge nosed in in front of Andrew - and John Hope amazed about it all
Is Lee going to slow down soon?


Lee will turn north. The consensus is about as good as you will see for a turn

https://i.postimg.cc/MKJmJz3j/13-L-tracks-00z.png


Agreed, I see practically no chance Lee will not turn north as projected. Sure, anything is possible but I'd give it a less than 5% chance of happening, and that is a generous estimate.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#864 Postby wxman57 » Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:22 pm

You can see how much of an outlier the 12Z EC was. With about 125 different tracks (operational & ensembles), It's west of almost all of them. The issue was its very slow forward speed for Lee and missing the first trof.

Image
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#865 Postby RevanTheJedi96 » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:45 pm

0z GFS a bit more left. Now landfall is in Western Nova Scotia.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#866 Postby hohnywx » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:48 pm

In case anyone is interested, the 00z GFS and CMC both show landfall in Nova Scotia. They also sped up from their previous runs.

00z ICON also shows Nova Scotia landfall but gets tugged westward prior to landfall bringing effects to Cape Cod and Maine.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#867 Postby RevanTheJedi96 » Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:09 am

hohnywx wrote:In case anyone is interested, the 00z GFS and CMC both show landfall in Nova Scotia. They also sped up from their previous runs.

00z ICON also shows Nova Scotia landfall but gets tugged westward prior to landfall bringing effects to Cape Cod and Maine.


That Westward tug is becoming a reoccurring trend. That's what concerns me that Lee is trending more West.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#868 Postby Craters » Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:25 am

RevanTheJedi96 wrote:
hohnywx wrote:In case anyone is interested, the 00z GFS and CMC both show landfall in Nova Scotia. They also sped up from their previous runs.

00z ICON also shows Nova Scotia landfall but gets tugged westward prior to landfall bringing effects to Cape Cod and Maine.


That Westward tug is becoming a reoccurring trend. That's what concerns me that Lee is trending more West.

If it makes you feel any better, the ensemble means don't seem to be showing that as much as the operational trends are.

Image

We're still pretty far out, timewise, too...
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#869 Postby RevanTheJedi96 » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:01 am

Craters wrote:
RevanTheJedi96 wrote:
hohnywx wrote:In case anyone is interested, the 00z GFS and CMC both show landfall in Nova Scotia. They also sped up from their previous runs.

00z ICON also shows Nova Scotia landfall but gets tugged westward prior to landfall bringing effects to Cape Cod and Maine.


That Westward tug is becoming a reoccurring trend. That's what concerns me that Lee is trending more West.

If it makes you feel any better, the ensemble means don't seem to be showing that as much as the operational trends are.

[url]https://i.ibb.co/pfBvypf/Means.jpg [/url]

We're still pretty far out, timewise, too...


It just adds more confusion to the forecast tbh
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#870 Postby LarryWx » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:11 am

The 0Z GEFS US hits went back down to 4 (13%) (9/16-8): 3 ME, 1 NY

So, last 7 GEFS runs: 13%, 26%, 16%, 16%, 10%, 10%, 10%
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#871 Postby PavelGaborik10 » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:26 am

Euro is roughly 24 hours faster, appears to finally be bending the knee in regards to timing.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#872 Postby PavelGaborik10 » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:30 am

Euro is about to go from Rhode Island to out to sea, again.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#873 Postby RevanTheJedi96 » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:44 am

Alright so after 12Z Euro, hopefully the West trend is stopping. Sorry Nova Scotia lol
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#874 Postby Craters » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:51 am

RevanTheJedi96 wrote:
Craters wrote:
RevanTheJedi96 wrote:
That Westward tug is becoming a reoccurring trend. That's what concerns me that Lee is trending more West.

If it makes you feel any better, the ensemble means don't seem to be showing that as much as the operational trends are.

[url]https://i.ibb.co/pfBvypf/Means.jpg [/url]

We're still pretty far out, timewise, too...


It just adds more confusion to the forecast tbh


As you know, the accuracy of model results that are more than five days into the future drops rapidly, so confusion is almost always the predictable consequence. As a watcher of these things for more than 40 years in the Gulf of Mexico — and I'm sure that others might want to chime in — I'd recommend trying to relax a little bit, maybe even take a break from Storm2K (heresy, I know!), get back to normal life for a day or so, and then check in again to see what might have changed in the meantime. There's plenty of time to adjust if you have to. Watching model results from this far out honestly will do nothing more than increase your stress and uncertainty levels. That's just the current nature of the beast. Maybe, in three or four years, the models will improve enough that they could be relied upon maybe six or seven days out. They are improving inexorably. Until then, though, try to take what they're saying for days six onward with a block of salt.

This is probably a lousy example, but in 2005, just 2+ days out from landfall, Hurricane Rita — at the time, supposedly the most powerful storm ever recorded in the Gulf — was forcasted to put our house right in the eastern eyewall. It ended up making landfall more than 60 miles to our east, and in a considerably weakened state. Yes, the wind gusts were impressive for a storm center so far away, but that's all they were — for us, anyway.The models have improved amazingly since then, and what was two days' error back then is maybe equivalent to something like the error from eight days out now. (Don't hold me to those numbers, but I don't think they're that far off.) The point is that I was watching each and every model run for Rita so intensely for more than a week that I almost gave myself an ulcer. It just isn't worth it, because watching from this far out in time is basically like looking into fantasyland. It doesn't make sense to risk your health and/or sanity over the changes between runs of a computer model that are really just its silicon-based version of whistling in the wind.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#875 Postby LarryWx » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:54 am

0Z Euro hits NE NS 0Z on 9/18 at 962 mb
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#876 Postby RevanTheJedi96 » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:58 am

Craters wrote:
RevanTheJedi96 wrote:
Craters wrote:If it makes you feel any better, the ensemble means don't seem to be showing that as much as the operational trends are.

[url]https://i.ibb.co/pfBvypf/Means.jpg [/url]

We're still pretty far out, timewise, too...


It just adds more confusion to the forecast tbh


As you know, the accuracy of model results that are more than five days into the future drops rapidly, so confusion is almost always the predictable consequence. As a watcher of these things for more than 40 years in the Gulf of Mexico — and I'm sure that others might want to chime in — I'd recommend trying to relax a little bit, maybe even take a break from Storm2K (heresy, I know!), get back to normal life for a day or so, and then check in again to see what might have changed in the meantime. There's plenty of time to adjust if you have to. Watching model results from this far out honestly will do nothing more than increase your stress and uncertainty levels. That's just the current nature of the beast. Maybe, in three or four years, the models will improve enough that they could be relied upon maybe six or seven days out. They are improving inexorably. Until then, though, try to take what they're saying for days six onward with a block of salt.

This is probably a lousy example, but in 2005, just 2+ days out from landfall, Hurricane Rita — at the time, supposedly the most powerful storm ever recorded in the Gulf — was forcasted to put our house right in the eastern eyewall. It ended up making landfall more than 60 miles to our east, and in a considerably weakened state. Yes, the wind gusts were impressive for a storm center so far away, but that's all they were — for us, anyway.The models have improved amazingly since then, and what was two days' error back then is maybe equivalent to something like the error from eight days out now. (Don't hold me to those numbers, but I don't think they're that far off.) The point is that I was watching each and every model run for Rita so intensely for more than a week that I almost gave myself an ulcer. It just isn't worth it, because watching from this far out in time is basically like looking into fantasyland. It doesn't make sense to risk your health and/or sanity over the changes between runs of a computer model that are really just its silicon-based version of whistling in the wind.


Yeah I appreciate the concern but I really was just making a statement that the models are rather confusing. This is a rather volatile setup for a hurricane and it won't be until Monday/Tuesday that we can start ruling out places of impact. I do think the East Coast SHOULD be fine considering the wide range of models that have it moving away from the US. Hope Nova Scotia is able to prepare well!
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#877 Postby IsabelaWeather » Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:53 am

crimi481 wrote:I am 95% sure the forecast track is correct - and so was John Hope and NHC back then. Just a flash back.



This is not Andrew, why even equate it? We are 31 years later, forecasting has much improved. Not a single model run or ensemble run has a track to Florida. I don't understand why people keep bringing Andrew up.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#878 Postby PavelGaborik10 » Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:19 am

IsabelaWeather wrote:
crimi481 wrote:I am 95% sure the forecast track is correct - and so was John Hope and NHC back then. Just a flash back.



This is not Andrew, why even equate it? We are 31 years later, forecasting has much improved. Not a single model run or ensemble run has a track to Florida. I don't understand why people keep bringing Andrew up.


They're bored..nobody cares about a cane hitting Nova Scotia.

Hell, 928 MB Fiona barely gathered traction...can't expect much from Teddy Jr.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#879 Postby MEANINGLESS_NUMBERS » Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:07 am

IsabelaWeather wrote:
crimi481 wrote:I am 95% sure the forecast track is correct - and so was John Hope and NHC back then. Just a flash back.



This is not Andrew, why even equate it? We are 31 years later, forecasting has much improved. Not a single model run or ensemble run has a track to Florida. I don't understand why people keep bringing Andrew up.


Floridians want to talk about Florida, even for a storm going into Canada. That’s just how it is.
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Re: ATL: LEE - Models

#880 Postby aspen » Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:08 am

06z HAFS-A/B show continuous EWRCs. As soon as the inner eyewall dies, yet another outer eyewall pops up, and this continues until shear begins to rip Lee apart after its turn to the north.
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