ATL: BARRY - Post-Tropical

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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#121 Postby chaser1 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:30 pm

ozonepete wrote:
chaser1 wrote:.....it seems to me that a reformation may well be occuring near the coastline. My guess would be 16.0 and 85.5.


Very well said. I have 16.2N 84.3W right now. The important point is that we all see it offshore.


You know Aric, when you first mention what appeared as a new LLC even farther east and north my first thought was that this may be an "eddie" rotating around the broader decaying old LLC. I have to admit though, your observation is starting to look like an increasingly compelling possibility.
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#122 Postby Alyono » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:34 pm

15 KT of shear is not light to moderate... it is solidly in the moderate level
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#123 Postby cycloneye » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:40 pm

Here is a more clear loop of where a Low Level Center may be forming.

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Re:

#124 Postby ozonepete » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:41 pm

Alyono wrote:15 KT of shear is not light to moderate... it is solidly in the moderate level


The worst part is that shear forecasts are very often awful. Either way underdone or way overdone. I still prefer to look at the cloud level wind analyses and model forecasts for mid and upper level winds and then decide for myself. Even the NHC often says in its discussions that they don't trust the shear forecasts. It's one of the worst problems in TC forecasting and the main reason why we have gotten so far in track forecasts but not nearly as good in strength or development forecasts. Which I'm sure you know anyway. :)
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Re:

#125 Postby SouthDadeFish » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:41 pm

Alyono wrote:15 KT of shear is not light to moderate... it is solidly in the moderate level


It really is all relative. 15 knots of shear is definitely light enough to allow genesis.
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#126 Postby TropicalAnalystwx13 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:42 pm

Shear definitely won't be an issue. One look at its outflow should tell everything.

and then there's this:

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#127 Postby Hurricane Andrew » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:53 pm

15 knots is pretty light compared to the 50-60 some cyclones have to deal with.
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Re:

#128 Postby chaser1 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:03 pm

Alyono wrote:SHIPS is indicating that there will be moderate shear affecting this throughout the next 72 hours.


I'm curious if the shear that SHIPS was forecasting was more based on the farther south latitude of the original center which of course was also cruising westward at a pretty good clip. If that motion and speed were maintained, then perhaps the perceived shear would have been the result of the LLC being located SW of the upper high and a more southerly shear might have been the result. As it stands, the satelite presentation certainly could make an argument that a center may be reforming. Any falling pressures caused by the intense convection might be a cause for a slower motion and furthermore any relocation further north would have any new LLC that much more insulated to shear due to its orientation to the upper high. Finally, if a LLC were to form further north and under the decent sized mid level envelope, then it would be interesting to take another look this evening at what the earlier BAMD model was indicating for general motion (of course any reformation would certainly cause an updated initiation of 93L as well).

One thing for sure, 93L is looking pretty healthy at the moment. Its interesting how none of the models from 0Z yesterday to this evening seemed to particularly pick up on this system organizing to the level that it would appear to be at the moment.
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#129 Postby Aric Dunn » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:08 pm

lol someone tell me the llc not offshore .. though at this rate it will likely be a TD/Ts and move inland by the time recon gets there lol.. however hopefully the belize radar tonight and tomorrow will change things




http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floater ... -long.html

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Re: Re:

#130 Postby Aric Dunn » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:24 pm

chaser1 wrote:
Alyono wrote:SHIPS is indicating that there will be moderate shear affecting this throughout the next 72 hours.


I'm curious if the shear that SHIPS was forecasting was more based on the farther south latitude of the original center which of course was also cruising westward at a pretty good clip. If that motion and speed were maintained, then perhaps the perceived shear would have been the result of the LLC being located SW of the upper high and a more southerly shear might have been the result. As it stands, the satelite presentation certainly could make an argument that a center may be reforming. Any falling pressures caused by the intense convection might be a cause for a slower motion and furthermore any relocation further north would have any new LLC that much more insulated to shear due to its orientation to the upper high. Finally, if a LLC were to form further north and under the decent sized mid level envelope, then it would be interesting to take another look this evening at what the earlier BAMD model was indicating for general motion (of course any reformation would certainly cause an updated initiation of 93L as well).

One thing for sure, 93L is looking pretty healthy at the moment. Its interesting how none of the models from 0Z yesterday to this evening seemed to particularly pick up on this system organizing to the level that it would appear to be at the moment.



true. though the models from a few days ago showed this more northern position. I think ill be up to watch a TD/ TS develop tonight.. lol
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#131 Postby SouthDadeFish » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:30 pm

For what it's worth, the new 03Z CIMSS analysis shows the strongest vorticity still over Central America:

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#132 Postby Hammy » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:30 pm

I would almost be willing to argue that, at least in the absence of surface data to the contrary, that this is probably already a tropical depression at this point, as it is showing very clear banding on satellite in the last hour.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Discussion

#133 Postby ROCK » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:31 pm

I think you might be right AD.....

I kept thinking EPAC system with this surge of moisture however the CMC was showing something similar to what we are seeing last week.....

MJO not even close...so goes to show if you have warm water, a TW (trigger), low shear, and slightly below instability in Carib anything can pop up.... maybe a bad sign of things to come... :eek:
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#134 Postby SouthDadeFish » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:35 pm

Are there any surface obs to support this proposed LLC offshore? I'm skeptical of using nighttime IR imagery to find the LLC...
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Re:

#135 Postby Aric Dunn » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:36 pm

SouthDadeFish wrote:Are there any surface obs to support this proposed LLC offshore? I'm skeptical of using nighttime IR imagery to find the LLC...


yeah a couple. roatan island area have a mix of due north to a little nnw though weak but the pressure field has not had time to expand out given the recent "possible development of the llc ... also it was fairly evident before the sun set :wink:

and night ir not as good as the RGB at night

http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/? ... d.type=00Q
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Re: ATL: INVEST 93L - Models

#136 Postby ROCK » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:42 pm

that Best Track is off by a few miles... :D looks offshore and more north east....might need to uptick the BAMMS some to the north but not by much....for fun the NAM buries it in the BOC.....

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/Imageanis.php
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#137 Postby TropicalAnalystwx13 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:43 pm

I know some invests can get very well organized, but the structure on microwave imagery is too organized *not* to be a tropical depression IMO. Satellite loops support this.

Image
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#138 Postby galaxy401 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:44 pm

Certainly looks like something forming there. Might not have enough time however.
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Re: Re:

#139 Postby ozonepete » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:46 pm

Aric Dunn wrote:
SouthDadeFish wrote:Are there any surface obs to support this proposed LLC offshore? I'm skeptical of using nighttime IR imagery to find the LLC...


yeah a couple. roatan island area have a mix of due north to a little nnw though weak but the pressure field has not had time to expand out given the recent "possible development of the llc ... also it was fairly evident before the sun set :wink:

and night ir not as good as the RGB at night

http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/? ... d.type=00Q


Yeah, southdade, use the rgb at night. Much much better.
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Re: Re:

#140 Postby SouthDadeFish » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:47 pm

ozonepete wrote:
Aric Dunn wrote:
SouthDadeFish wrote:Are there any surface obs to support this proposed LLC offshore? I'm skeptical of using nighttime IR imagery to find the LLC...


yeah a couple. roatan island area have a mix of due north to a little nnw though weak but the pressure field has not had time to expand out given the recent "possible development of the llc ... also it was fairly evident before the sun set :wink:

and night ir not as good as the RGB at night

http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/? ... d.type=00Q


Yeah, southdade, use the rgb at night. Much much better.


I am using RGB. That still uses an IR channel at night, does it not?
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