ATL: IKE Discussion

[bikerbabe]

Respectfully disagree, Matt. The federal government WAS designed to take over in some situations.

"A state of emergency is a governmental declaration that may suspend certain normal functions of government, alert citizens to alter their normal behaviors, or order government agencies to implement emergency preparedness plans. It can also be used as a rationale for suspending civil liberties. Such declarations usually come during a time of natural disaster, during periods of civil disorder, or following a declaration of war (in democratic countries, many call this martial law, most with non-critical intent). " emphasis supplied. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_emergency

People can be forced from their homes if they are in danger.

Children can be taken from their parents under "child endangerment" under "normal" provisions of State law. And usually the offending parents are tossed in jail.

Although I agree with your statement in part

YOU have a right to eat transfat, smoke, own a gun, spit on the sidewalk, and cuss.

you neglected to mention that YOU need to be prepared to take the responsibility for your actions.

Yeah, anyone has the right to break the law. You did know that smoking prohibited in some areas, spitting on the sidewalk is against the law in most US jurisdictions, anti-cussing statutes are on the books, and there are some areas of the country where you are not permitted to own a gun, didn't you?

Sorry, America is not as you envision it. There are even things you are proihibited from doing in the sanctity of your own home.

And I suppose that you think that the government should be picking up all future medical expenses incident to your indulgence in transfats.

[Ed Mahmoud]

Ed, good to hear that normalcy is being restored!

My house is still dark, and I think I had my last BBQ meal last night, as meat in cooler well on way to defrosting. If it isn't still cold when I get home, back to Ravioli from a pop=top can.


Any news from Galveston?

[bikerbabe]

Not much news coming out of Galveston.

[Skyhawk]

Chertoff Trying To Shift The Blame[/Quote]

The FEMA trucks arrived at Reliant Stadium at 7:00 PM last night, about 36 hours after the winds subsided and about 6 hours after the interstate because passable after a flashflood Sunday morning closed portions of I10 and I45.

This was a logistics miracle and we have politicians grandstanding. Mayor White admitted that there was at most a delay of 3 hours in the expected arrival of the trucks. The problem seems more that the state focussed its relief efforts on Galveston, which was harder hit, rather than on Houston.

Although the city of Houston established a few pods Sunday evening. It seems that most of the relief supplies remained at Reliant stadium overnight. Most of the supplies have not been made available to the public 12 hours after they arrived in Houston. The supplies will be available when the city of Houston makes them available.

[Derek Ortt]

This is America, the land of the free. The Federal government HAS no power what so ever to go into a state, County, city with Millitary with out first getting the ok from one of them. That is just the way it set up; that is to respect the rights of the state and its government. The federal government was never made to rule like you went it to.

Also you do NOT went to give the federal or any part of the government the power to take away from you or shoot you. That can go very very bad very fast. If you went to risk your life inside your private home, then so be it. This is America and you are free to do so, at least should be. I maybe wrong, but I think forcing people out of their homes is illigal in this country, just like taking away someones gun.

Anyways that is how I feel. Also what founding father gave the green light to take someones children away from them????

YOU have a right to eat transfat, smoke, own a gun, spit on the sidewalk, and cuss. Do you agree Derek?

As for Ike, yes he was very bad and I do expect grim news to come out...We will see.

No Matt, you do not and you understand so little

There is a declared state of emergency and a clear and present danger. Please read up on how rights can be limited or suspended during those times. The air space is needed for rescue operations, not so Matt can see damage photos

and before a hurricane, that is clearly a clear and present danger. I believe in punishments FAR MORE DRACONIAN than taking away ones child for failure to evacuate

[tolakram]

I think we need to stop the rumors of why the government has declare no fly zones around rescue areas, it should be plainly obvious. The last thing they need is 20 news copters in the way of rescue operations. If they didn't declare a no fly zone then every tom, dick and harry would be out there taking pictures.

[inda_iwall]

P.S. Treasure Island is a barrier island and I can assure you all that if a storm heads this way, WE ARE OUTTA' HERE!!!!

I don't want to imagine the impact of a hurricane in the Tampa Bay area! It's so flat, with lots of waterways.

If a hurricane ever bore down on your area, I would be so sad... I was engaged at Fort DeSoto Park. We go to your neck of the beach every year. I'm working my husband to have us move there!

I am sad now because Galveston was so impacted. That was my first beach ever, Stewart Beach...

Carrie

Yeah, I absolutely love it here! However, we are approx. 4 feet above sea level and after seeing what has just become of Galveston and the surrounding coastal communities, I can only think of how easily that could have been us. Plus, most of the homes in our neighborhood are ground level, not on stilts or anything.

The building that we are in is at least a solid concrete building (even our interior walls are concrete) with no units on the ground floor and the pilings go down to the bedrock. It was built by the Army Corp. of Engineers to show people how to build on barrier islands so, it is likely that our building would still be here but, that wouldn't be much consolation if everything surrounding us was gone.

Thanks to S2K and all of the pro-mets and smart amatuers, I would be making my evacuation plans before the authorities told me I needed to go! Thankfully, I have family that we could stay with for an indefinite amount of time should anything like that occur.

~Nikki~

You have no idea how bad your building would look after a 20 storm surge plus 20+ foot waves bashing in, the bottom floors would look like this image. And there would be no way to get to your belongings upstairs so the mold and mildew would destroy all of it, plus it would take 2 weeks before you could even get to your place to se what damage had been done, and then how do you suppose you would get to your stuff? Stairs, elevator? You would then realize, it is all gone. You are correct in one aspect...you NEVER want to have it happen to you, it is not cool. Not only do you lose your belongings, but you lose who you are, you become someone totally different leading a whole different lifestyle. All you places you used to hang out at are gone, your neighbors are no longer around, things change in ways you never thought about. And god forbid you lose someone special through it.

[Steve]

>>Have the military come in and kick everyone out... it's about life or death. Especially where you see families with young kids defying common sense. Basically have buses come into the locations before it strikes and make everyone board them and get out

1) No. This is America. You are free to do as you please even if that means you make an occasional stupid decision.

2) Chertoff has been in way over his head since his first promotion. The guy is terrible.

3) For those of you bagging on people for not leaving, there is a thread I haven't yet looked at as to why some people don't evacuate. Top of that list should be economic reasons. I had the wherewithall to cruise around for a week on either end of Gustav. Many people do not. The economy overall is terrible. Foreclosures are in unchartered territories. Credit debit is still really high. I recommend you speak and act for yourselves rather than complain about what other people did or didn't do. I fully understand the mindset of not wanting to leave when it might take you 10 hours to go less than 200 miles, you might have an old car or truck, perhaps someone in your house is sick, work won't let you off, etc. You've got to make the best decision you can. Sometimes in hindsight, that decision was a mistake. However, just like the majority of people in SELA and SWMS weren't looters or drags on the economy, I'm sure it's pretty much the same for the Triangle and Galveston areas. People work hard, pay their taxes, keep their insurance and play by the rules. These are the people who deserve a little break especially after the misfortune of a devastating tropical system regardless of the strength.

JMO, but the right one.

Steve

[inda_iwall]

I think people are fortunate they have people coming to help them, ultimately it is up to them individually to take care of themselves, and the first way should have been to get off the island, I feel sorry for them for having to lose all their belongings and house, I really do, it sucks, but I do not feel sorry for people trapped out there, it was their decision, therefore it is their responsibility to find a way off and to survive, and if they are helped they should should feel grateful and lucky to have humans risking their lives to help them out after doing something so stupid. I lived on Santa Rosa Island before Ivan, it wiped everything out, but I left the island knowing full well what was about to happen. There is no excuse after all the canes that have come through, to ignore the warnings.

[Cyclone Runner]

Ike-Related Deaths: Having gleaned various AP Articles and other local media, I have been able to find the following information about deaths related directly or indirectly to Hurricane Ike.

40 Deaths in 10 States (updated to include Kentucky death)

Texas 14
A 10-year-old boy died north of Houston when a falling tree limb hit him in the head, the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office said.

A 19-year-old man drowned Friday off the coast of Corpus Christi. Officer Josh Morales says Moxly was on a jetty when he was swept away Friday off North Padre Island as Ike approached a Texas landfall. The Coast Guard has been searching for 19-year-old Michael Moxly off the shores of Corpus Christi, Texas.

An elderly person died as he was transferring from a home in Brazoria County to a shelter in Bell County, said Doc Adams, Brazoria's emergency management coordinator.

Authorities say a Pinehurst, Texas woman died in her bed early Saturday after a tree fell on her home, crushing her. Officials say she was the first reported death attributed to Ike.

A 4-year-old Houston boy died of carbon monoxide poisoning from the generator his family was using for power.

After a three-day stay in Dallas after fleeing Houston over the weekend, a 17-month-old boy was fatally hit by a car at about 3 p.m. Sunday at a Pleasant Grove gas station.

Five deaths were in the hard-hit barrier island city of Galveston, Texas, including one body found in a vehicle submerged in floodwater at the airport.

On Sunday, a Galveston County sheriff's official said three bodies were pulled from storm wreckage in Port Bolivar.

Louisiana 8
Two members of a Lake Charles-area family fleeing from Hurricane Ike were killed Friday in a collision between two sport utility vehicles on Interstate 10 in Iberville Parish, State Police said Friday. he victims were identified as Warren Rideau, 53, and Marie L. Bonhomme, 83.

Louisiana. Terrebonne Parish coroner senior investigator Gary Alford says a 16-year-old boy drowned in his house in Bayou Dularge, La., when he fell through wooden pallets used as flooring and floodwaters rose. Mr. Alford also said a 57-year-old man died from a broken neck after he was blown over by wind.

Dr. Louis Cataldie, the state's chief medical officer, said two people died of natural causes brought on by the storm in Jefferson Davis Parish.

Also in Jefferson Davis Parish, two out-of-state contractors were electrocuted Sunday while helping restore power just southeast of Lacassine.

Indiana 4
In northwest Indiana, a father and grandfather died trying to save a 12-year-old who fell into a rain-swollen ditch in Chesterton, Ind., according to the Chesterton Fire Department. Mark Thanos, 48, and his father, 74-year-old John Thanos both jumped into the rushing waters of a ditch near their home.

A woman was killed in Crawford County when a tree fell on her and two children, state Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman Rachel Meyer said. The children were injured, she said.

A person was also killed in Perry County due to high winds, Meyer said.

Ohio 3
Strong winds were blamed for three deaths in Ohio. Two motorcyclists were killed Sunday when a tree toppled onto them at a state park in southwest Ohio, said state Department of Natural Resources spokesman Jason Fallon. and a woman wan killed when a tree crashed into her home in Hamilton County, just north of Cincinnati.

Missouri 3
Officials say 49-year-old Joan Dankner of Ladue died after she was hit by a tree limb during the storm.

In University City, a elderly man was found dead behind a home with a flooded backyard. Authorities believe he drowned.

Officials in Columbia, Mo. say a 21-year-old woman was swept away by floodwaters while trying to help a man.

Kansas 2
In Kansas, a volunteer rescue worker who fell into river and was pronounced dead at Wichita hospital and a man was also killed after driving his SUV into deep water in Wichita, officials said.

Illinois 2
In Oak Lawn, Eduardas Jokuvauskas, 83, of 10320 Linder Ave. in Oak Lawn, drowned in a window well outside his southwest suburban home Saturday, said the Cook County Medical Examiner's office.

In Arlington Heights, Alan G. Byrd, 28, of 2703 School Dr. in Rolling Meadows drowned Saturday afternoon trying to swim across a retention pond at Sunset Meadows Park, 700 S. Dwyer Ave., authorities said.

Tennessee 2
In Tennessee, two men sitting in a golf cart on the 16th hole of a Nashville golf course were killed when a tree fell over on them Sunday morning, fire department spokesman Ricky Taylor said.

Arkansas 1
One death was reported in Arkansas, where a 29-year-old man was killed when a tree fell on a mobile home as he was preparing to leave, the Pointsett County sheriff said. The fatality occurred in Fisher in southwest Poinsett County.

Kentucky 1
LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) -- High winds from the remnants of Hurricane Ike are being blamed for at least one death in Kentucky. Shelby County Deputy Coroner Janet Morris says 10-year-old Frederick Wilson died Sunday after being struck by a large limb while mowing his family's yard at Simpsonville.

[THead]

Looks to me like FEMA is doing fairly well, people need to layoff a bit. Its difficult to take care of 2+ million people in the best of times, let alone when there's no power, roads impassable, etc etc etc.

By the morning after the storm, at the "shelter of last resort" at the high school in Galveston, they had a full service hospital set up that could handle anything short of a heart transplant, pallets and pallets of MREs, water and ice, convoys of buses loading up refugees and taking them to better equipped cities/shelters, 100s and 100s of national guard, state police, and various other first responders to assist. They also had several other "PODs" around Galveston Island setup with pallets and pallets of supplies, and personnel.

You just can't possibly expect a better response than what I'm seeing from various media outlets. I'm sure there are always pockets of people that they have trouble reaching, getting the word out, but man, they really appear to be doing ALOT better with this storm's aftermath.

Believe me I'm not a big FEMA fan either, after Wilma it was the Red Cross that really bailed us out, but people have to recognize they are getting better, and this is a HUGE metropolitan area affected.

[Steve]

The bottom line is that that although each storm brings a different set of challenges, they should be nearly perfect after 3 years. Most of these people affected are Americans. I'd rather my substantial tax dollars go toward helping them than to defending Europe, rebuilding Iraq, arming Israel or other Middle Eastern countries, paying into perpetual welfare or any of the other places/things hundreds of billions of dollars go annually. That's my opinion. I am an American and believe that we should always come first.

While no doubt FEMA and DHS are getting better, they're still not doing a heckova job yet.

Steve

[VeniceInlet]

I've posted the "why people don't evacuate" thread in Talking Tropics based on my own experiences. I've listed reasons, they're in no particular order.

Some of these things can be overcome with education, and some can't. Unfortunately I think there are always going to be a percentage of people who make ignorant decisions (and I'm using ignorant here in the true definition of the word). The goal, I think, is to make that percentage as small as possible. I do think there is a lot of confusion and misinformation even among educated folks, and if we can help arm people with the right information to make better decisions, that will be a good first step. To me, the "right information" isn't just a category and landfall estimation.

Reading a lot of the various boards and comments in the past week, I'm shocked at the lack of education some people show in communication, and it helps me to grasp why they don't really get what's going on. When people can't use even the simplest grammar or spelling, it's a big clue that they probably can't understand other concepts that are a little more complex.

And as far as what government should or shouldn't do, this is a perfect example of where the government should step in. Many laws are in place to keep people from hurting themselves and from hurting other people, and this should be no different.

[CrazyC83]

If there is any good news, Ike is finally (from what I can tell) dead.

[jasons2k]

We made it through the storm OK. We got the western eyewall so our neighborhood/area took it pretty bad.

We are very lucky. I had no trees down (except two banana trees) and no structural damage. No shingles lost either.

The rest of the neighborhood wasn't so lucky. Trees down everywhere. It might be two weeks w/no power.

Here's my $.02 on the situaiton. The only people that can relate to what has happend maybe those who went through Katrina. When a major city has a total catastrohic power failure like this, things get crazy, fast. I think Bill White is doing everything he can. He needs more help. Period.

Anyway, we drove to Austin yesterday. Took over 4 hours. The damage dropped-off more dramatically than I expected. By the time we got to Brenham, it was like nothing had happened - except for massive lines everywhere for food & gas.

We are glad to be OK and enjoying the AC.

[Category 5]

Hmm, the post landfall events of Ike and the 1900 Galveston storm were nearly identical, they both transitioned into major ET entities and caused damage far inland.

[HURAKAN]

[Category 5]

I think we can also learn about the 1900 storm from Ike, JMHO.

[BocaGirl]

We made it through the storm OK. We got the western eyewall so our neighborhood/area took it pretty bad.

We are very lucky. I had no trees down (except two banana trees) and no structural damage. No shingles lost either.

The rest of the neighborhood wasn't so lucky. Trees down everywhere. It might be two weeks w/no power.

Here's my $.02 on the situaiton. The only people that can relate to what has happend maybe those who went through Katrina. When a major city has a total catastrohic power failure like this, things get crazy, fast. I think Bill White is doing everything he can. He needs more help. Period.

Jason, So glad to hear you are ok. I know Houston and The Woodland area was so beautiful. Many of my friends moved there. I have been wondering about it.

Here in South Florida, we did not have to deal with storm surge or major flooding, but Wilma knocked out power and trees everywhere. I still remember someone on this board looking at pictures of snapped cement power poles along Airport Road and saying ...but THAT couldn't have happened.....but Wilma packed a mean punch. We universally hate that name.

Anyway, yes, we know what it's like to suddenly go dark, dark, dark. When you walk into a room and just automatically hit the light switch...and nothing happens! The worst part is that all the traffic signals are out and frayed tempers make people drive like maniacs. The shortest trip can be the most dangerous. And I see now that Houston is under curfew...that's hard too...the long dark nights stuck at home made my son go bananas.

I'm sure that Houstonians (some of the best people in the world) will band together. In the aftermath of Wilma, our neighbors shared water, food, ice. We had cookouts, games for the kids and a few silly nights under the starry skies. After Wilma, it took us 16 long days to get our power restored at my house. I hope they have the system refined now. I hope everyone is back up sooner.

Our hearts are with you all in Texas.

BocaGirl
Barbara

[HURAKAN]

U.S. death toll from Hurricane Ike rises to 28

U.S. authorities said Monday that Hurricane Ike was responsible for at least 28 deaths in nine states on the weekend.

Officials said the death toll could rise as officials search houses in the hardest hit areas of Texas to find people who defied evacuation orders.

The search-and-rescue operation involving 1,500 workers is said to be the largest in Texas history.

Thousands of Texas residents, meanwhile, were in crowded shelters on Monday after their homes were damaged or destroyed in the hurricane. Officials said they could be there indefinitely.

Houston, strewn with glass after the storm blew through on the weekend, was placed under a weeklong curfew to ensure public safety, according to Houston police Chief Harold Hurtt.

The curfew from 9 p.m. until 6 a.m. will not be lifted until Saturday morning. About a million people were said to be without power in the Houston area.

Hardest hit areas in Texas include Orange, Bridge City and Galveston.

Rescuers said Sunday they found nearly 2,000 people who chose to ignore evacuation orders and stayed in their homes as the storm arrived.

Ike, which was downgraded to a tropical storm after it moved inland, destroyed at least 10 production platforms in the Gulf of Mexico. There are more than 700 platforms in the Gulf.

It was not clear on Monday how the damage would affect oil and gas prices and details of the size and production capacity of the wrecked platforms were not available.

As many as 14 Texas refineries are shut because of Ike, representing more than 20 per cent of U.S. refining capacity. The plants escaped major damage but It's not clear how long they will be out of operation.

U.S. President George W. Bush was expected to visit the area on Tuesday.

Authorities, meanwhile, said Monday they are investigating claims that close to 300 senior citizens were left by their caretakers at a public housing complex in Houston during the hurricane.

What's left of the storm blew through parts of southern Ontario early Monday, bringing wind and rain.