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Former Congressman "helped al-Qaeda"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:13 am
by Chacor
A former US congressman has been charged with helping to fund "a key al-Qaeda supporter" in Afghanistan.
A US grand jury indicted ex-Republican congressman from Michigan, Mark Deli Siljander, with money laundering, conspiracy and obstructing justice.
It is alleged he lobbied for a charity that sent funds to al-Qaeda and Taleban supporter Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.
Mr Siljander was a congressman from 1981-1987 and served one year as a US delegate to the United Nations.
US politician on al-Qaeda charge (Full story here)
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:09 am
by Cryomaniac
Interesting. Any chance of a treason charge?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:26 am
by HURAKAN
If that doesn't constitute treason, then I don't know the meaning of treason.
Re:
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:52 pm
by Coredesat
Cryomaniac wrote:Interesting. Any chance of a treason charge?
Unlikely, there's a strict definition of treason under U.S. law; this doesn't meet it despite who he was helping. Treason is specifically defined as a U.S. citizen waging an armed war against an element of the U.S. government.
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:16 pm
by Derek Ortt
when did these activities take place?
If after 9/11, then he may be elegible for treason (which carries an almost certain death sentence). If not, he, unfortunately, would not be elegible
Re: Former Congressman "helped al-Qaeda"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:32 pm
by Ed Mahmoud
He isn't a Muslim either. Not sure if he was getting paid, somehow, or if perhaps he became romatically involved with a Muslimah.
Grover Norquist, a policy advisor to President Bush, married a Palestinian Muslimah, and by definition would have had to convert, because Islam is very strict about kufr (infidels) marrying Muslim women (Muslim men, however, are permitted to marry Christians or Jewish women), and is now a cheerleader for the Council of American-Islamic Relations, "CAIR', whose ties to Hamas were revealed during the Holy Land Foundation trial. CAIR was an 'unindicted co-conspirator' of funneling money to Islamic terror groups.
Re: Former Congressman "helped al-Qaeda"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:20 pm
by x-y-no
Ed Mahmoud wrote:He isn't a Muslim either. Not sure if he was getting paid, somehow, or if perhaps he became romatically involved with a Muslimah.
Allegedly he was paid $50,000 which (allegedly with his knowledge) had been stolen from a US development agency.
Re:
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:30 pm
by Coredesat
Derek Ortt wrote:when did these activities take place?
If after 9/11, then he may be elegible for treason (which carries an almost certain death sentence). If not, he, unfortunately, would not be elegible
It wouldn't be treason even with the tightened laws post-9/11; treason is the only crime defined in the U.S. Constitution - it would take an amendment to change that definition. If anything, they could charge him with espionage (which is also punishable by death), but this isn't exactly espionage, either.
They charged him with conspiracy, that alone could get him a life sentence.
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:38 pm
by Cryomaniac
I think espionage is reasonable, although I don't know the exact definition of it.
Re:
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:45 pm
by Coredesat
Cryomaniac wrote:I think espionage is reasonable, although I don't know the exact definition of it.
Espionage is defined as gathering intelligence on one group and passing it to another in secret. There would likely need to be evidence that the congressman gave more than just money to the Al-Qaeda agents (or that there was a conspiracy to do as such).
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:07 pm
by Derek Ortt
Tokyo Rose was convicted of treason despite only providing aid and comfort to the enemy during WW2 (she should have been hanged, drawn, and quartered, not let off lightly as she was).
I was thinking maybe since 9/11 since we have been engaged in hostilities with Al Queda and the Taliban, that maybe the definition could have been stretched, like it was for Tokyo Rose
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/ ... 4483.shtmlthe above link documents an American who joined Al Queda and is charged with treason, despite not actually fighting
Re:
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:31 pm
by Coredesat
Derek Ortt wrote:Tokyo Rose was convicted of treason despite only providing aid and comfort to the enemy during WW2 (she should have been hanged, drawn, and quartered, not let off lightly as she was).
I was thinking maybe since 9/11 since we have been engaged in hostilities with Al Queda and the Taliban, that maybe the definition could have been stretched, like it was for Tokyo Rose
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/ ... 4483.shtmlthe above link documents an American who joined Al Queda and is charged with treason, despite not actually fighting
Technically that wasn't treason either (none of the Tokyo Roses had taken up arms - they should have been charged with espionage and not treason). The definition had been stretched by the prosecution as the events occurred during a declared war.
The Tokyo Rose who was convicted of treason was later pardoned by Gerald Ford after a unanimous vote by the California legislature, pleas from the Japanese-American Citizens League, and one of the state senators. Based on what I've read about the case, she may actually have been innocent (especially given the various awards she has received since regaining her citizenship, including an award from the WWII Veterans Committee).
The American who joined al-Qaeda was charged with treason because by joining them outright, he had indeed taken up arms against his own country. That fits the constitutional definition of treason.