STORM2K

58 years old today!

The greatest military alliance in the history of the World. Hard to believe it has been 58 years already. Where does the time go?

LOL, we just learned about that in AP Euro yesterday (started the chapter on the Cold War). Ironic isn't it.

Hybridstorm_November2001 wrote:Where does the time go?

40 years went into the Cold War. Who has time to count time when you're staring down Soviet tanks and missles??

Time to think about some changes. The Cold War is over and there are new threats, so it might be time to disband the NATO and form a new military alliance with more allied nations. The NATO as it is now is just a remnant of a time long gone.

Well the Europeans have the CFSP, and around 60,000 rapid response forces. But NATO will remain as long as Europeans cannot guarantee their collective security.

Yes, NATO served its purpose and had a role in some recent issues. It may be time to re-invent the alliance with a new purpose. Of course in the changing sands of history, any alliance lasts only as long as it is expedient for both parties. What we are watching has happened innumerable times previously.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6537545.stm

Six soldiers serving with the Nato-led force in south Afghanistan have been killed, the alliance has announced.

continued

One other soldier was injured. The nationalities of the dead and injured have not yet been released.

NATO in the aftermath of the September 11th terrorist attacks, invoked Article V. All nineteen countries of the Alliance said that the attack was on all of their members, the next day. Today over five years after the terrorist attacks NATO forces are dying fighting our common enemy, the mujahadeen.

LOL, we just learned about that in AP Euro yesterday (started the chapter on the Cold War). Ironic isn't it.

I have been looking for some cold war history about Arecibo in Puerto Rico.

Not much out there on the net except what you can find buried in the UFO disinfo.

Maybe one of the local storm2k folks has some information they could post?

Nimbus wrote:

LOL, we just learned about that in AP Euro yesterday (started the chapter on the Cold War). Ironic isn't it.

I have been looking for some cold war history about Arecibo in Puerto Rico.

Not much out there on the net except what you can find buried in the UFO disinfo.

Maybe one of the local storm2k folks has some information they could post?

What? The Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico is connected with aliens???

kevin wrote:

Nimbus wrote:

LOL, we just learned about that in AP Euro yesterday (started the chapter on the Cold War). Ironic isn't it.

I have been looking for some cold war history about Arecibo in Puerto Rico.

Not much out there on the net except what you can find buried in the UFO disinfo.

Maybe one of the local storm2k folks has some information they could post?

What? The Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico is connected with aliens???

It was probably that creepy alien dude with the elongated arms from Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

Nimbus wrote:

LOL, we just learned about that in AP Euro yesterday (started the chapter on the Cold War). Ironic isn't it.

I have been looking for some cold war history about Arecibo in Puerto Rico.

Not much out there on the net except what you can find buried in the UFO disinfo.

Maybe one of the local storm2k folks has some information they could post?

Are you talking about the big radio telescope that's formed out of a bowl shaped excavation in the earth?

I thought that it was strictly for observing outer space. While it is very large and sensitive it has great limitations because it can't be aimed in different directions. It couldn't be pointed at Russia so I surmise that it had very limited usefulness in the cold war. I think that we had many other observational devices that were much more useful for use during the cold war.

Kevin wrote:

What? The Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico is connected with aliens???

That mythology may have started here in the US with the movie "Contact" starring Jodie Foster. Arecibo was featured as a SETI observatory in the movie.

New link this morning for Arecibo's role in SETI.

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/phoe ... 10314.html

My interest in the history of Arecibo started while searching for an answer to a cold war question. Looking for a word to satisfy a crossword puzzle I came across the term "Schuman resonance".

A quick search of the internet turned up this link about the HAARPS project in Alaska.

http://www.abidemiracles.com/65602.htm

Arecibo was designed back in the 1950's to receive signals from the Ionosphere and that was its primary function from 1963 until 1969.

There just does not seem to be any crystal clear information about Arecibo's role as a listening post during the cold war that does not include disinformation noise mixed in?

The main problem with NATO is the most of the countries do not take part in combat operations:

In Afghanistan right now for example only the American, British and Canadian forces are taking part in combat operations. Many European Powers have great restrictions placed upon their troops, to the point that many can only take part in reconstruction work period.

Hybridstorm_November2001 wrote:The main problem with NATO is the most of the countries do not take part in combat operations:

In Afghanistan right now for example only the American, British and Canadian forces are taking part in combat operations. Many European Powers have great restrictions placed upon their troops, to the point that many can only take part in reconstruction work period.

Many European nations have indeed only sent out troops to take part in reconstruction programs. It's the only way governments can persuade the parliaments to agree with a mission in a foreign country which doesn't directly threaten their countries.

By the way, not only American, Britisch and Canadian troops are taking part in combat operations. Dutch troops are almost always part of the major combat operations (Operation Medusa, Mountain Fury, Mountain Thrust, etc), along with troops from Romania, Estonia and Denmark.

Sorry I wasn't aware of the other countries you mentioned (no article I read, or reports I’ve watched, have mentioned their combat involvement). I apologize for my ignorance. I only knew that most of the major Alliance nations of Western Europe don't seem to be pulling their weight these days; as covered in many American, British and Canadian articles and news reports I’ve seen.

Heh, no problem, even I hardly ever hear about Dutch troops fighting, so I can understand it isn't reported in the media that often. It's kept a bit secret, because the Dutch citizens were promised our troops would only take part in reconstruction programs. Most of the countries I mentioned have no more then 500 troops in Afghanistan, so it's easy to not notice them. The only countries with more then 1000 troops are the US (12.000), the UK (6300), Germany (2750), Canada (2500), The Netherlands (2122, number of special forces active is not known), Italy (1950) and France (1900). Germany, Italy and France are only taking part in reconstruction programs, so there are only four countries with a sufficient amount of troops fighting.

I agree with you that most of the European countries aren't really helpfull. I'm dissappointed by the number of troops deployed by countries such as France, Spain, Italy and Poland. But also by the smaller countries who have contributed nothing. Then again, I can understand the unwillingness of most of the European countries; Afghanistan is far away and the public doesn't see why their soldiers should risk their lives for a foreign country they didn't even choose to invade. A government has to listen to these opinions.