STORM2K

Heard on my local/world news out of Durham, NC a while ago that there was a vanload of Iraqi women and children who were wounded/killed today while nearing a checkpoint area because they refused to stop even when warning shots (that were ignored) were fired earlier! :o

This is one of the true tragedy's of war. I grieve for the loss of the innocents but these things happen during war. The soldiers who felt forced to fire will have to live with this for the rest of their lives. These are the burdens that come with military service in a time of war. May God grant all involved peace.

When you have suicide bombers in your midst you take extra care. Unfortunate, but you run a checkpoint you're gonna be a target. If it was innocents, shame on the driver. I haven't heard this report on the news, but I wonder what the circumstances were. Were they defying the stop order or just misunderstand. Most checkpoints are set up so there is no misunderstanding :o

Yes Eric I just heard that at Fox and this is an unfortunate incident that inocent people die but the pentagon is investigating the circunstances of it.

But what I am worried about is how this news will play in the arab world with the already many protests in various countries in the middele east.

The horrors of war---truly a sad story

WASHINGTON - U.S. troops killed seven Iraqi women and children at a checkpoint Monday when the van they were riding in would not stop as ordered, a military official said.

Two other civilians were wounded in the incident at a U.S. Army checkpoint on a highway near Najaf in southern Iraq, the official said. The military is investigating, he said.

The dead and wounded were among 13 women and children in a van that approached the checkpoint but did not stop, the official said. Soldiers fired warning shots and then shots into the vehicle's engine, neither of which stopped it, he said.

Four Army soldiers were killed at a checkpoint near Najaf Saturday by a car bomb detonated by an Iraqi soldier dressed as a civilian.

yeh a sad story but the car didn't stop. They said they fired warning shots...it didn't stop...they fired at the engine...it didn't stop...so they fired on them...i assume it stopped. So sad.

I'm not trying to sound cold hearted, but far better seven dead Iraqi women and children than three or four dead American GI's. I'm truly sorry that innocent women and children were killed today...but after what went down Saturday, it was bound to happen.

I've worked gate and checkpoint security on many occasions....the first time when I was only 19 years old. I know from experience it can be very dangerous--even when your not in a war zone.

---------
Perry

And, ya gotta KNOW Iraq and Al Jazeera, along with Abu Dhabi and now, the UK's Daily Mirror (who just picked up Peter Arnett) are going to be "short-stroking" this all over the Arab streets...

Picking up some of the chatter on coast-to-coast tonight. So Russia and Syria are starting to stir, as well as pakistan and the rest of the Arab world, China, Korea, France and Germany. From what I caught on the short part i did hear, seems they are concerned that Russia COULD threaten with their long range Ballistic Missiles (they still got them socked away). That would rain on our parade :o Bush sent notice that we need to be alert for retaliation from any of the above (but his quote included only Iraq and Al-Quada; other chatter was from "coast to coast"). The press is quickly becoming the enemy Look how they portray us.. Our own damn media!! Very disturbing. The lines are being drawn now.

Such propaganda Steve. If you could hear that kind of chatter you would be arrested for offering us that kind of information.

Had the driver of that bus heeded to the warnings to stop this would never have happened. I believe that bus driver was a suicide bomber who took no consideration of his passengers. Just goes to show you how those cockroaches operate and how they hold no value to civilians lives, especially the women and children. It was probably a bus load of women and children that had been taken from men who did not fight to defend that regime. We already have evidence that this is happening.

I just think there has to be more to this story.... Was this lady just pissed at the Americans and just went crazy?? Or maybe the iraqi's ordered her to do it knowing we would shoot them thus looking like the "bad" guy??

Lindaloo wrote:Such propaganda Steve. If you could hear that kind of chatter you would be arrested for offering us that kind of information.

Had the driver of that bus heeded to the warnings to stop this would never have happened. I believe that bus driver was a suicide bomber who took no consideration of his passengers. Just goes to show you how those cockroaches operate and how they hold no value to civilians lives, especially the women and children. It was probably a bus load of women and children that had been taken from men who did not fight to defend that regime. We already have evidence that this is happening.

I agree with you Linda (about fair warning given). This is the way it has to be from now on. I'll go out on a limb here and draw reference to Rodney King. A known career criminal....big, strong, dangerous. He is ordered to stop...he doesn't. He is ordered to get down...he doesn't. What follows is certainly arguable use of excessive force. But.........the fact remains he WAS warned, and he was given EVERY chance to comply. Take that situation and magnify it 1000 times and this is what a soldier in Iraq faces every time he confronts a civilian that does not do as told. The rules of engagement specifically allow for the self defense of one's life, using deadly force if necessary.

There will be more of this in the days to come, and the some of the press will of course take that oppurtunity to paint us as killers of innocent woman and children, instead of protectors and preservers of human life who are merely defending their right to protect themselves.

The chances of Russia getting involved militarily are worse than me winning the lottery IMO. Syria will provide semi-covert aid but won't cross the line by committing military forces either. To do so would be suicide on their part. The distance from Syria to Bagdad would dictate that those forces be moved over open terrain under US airpower. It isn't going to happen. There is a lot of chest thumping and posturing right now for the post war Iraqi hearts and souls.

mf_dolphin wrote:The chances of Russia getting involved militarily are worse than me winning the lottery IMO. Syria will provide semi-covert aid but won't cross the line by committing military forces either. To do so would be suicide on their part. The distance from Syria to Bagdad would dictate that those forces be moved over open terrain under US airpower. It isn't going to happen. There is a lot of chest thumping and posturing right now for the post war Iraqi hearts and souls.

My thoughts exactly.

It is indeed a tragedy, but they did what they had to do. I wonder if somehow this was a "setup" - a suicide driver or something to that affect that figured either way this would help the cause. They would go out as martyrs one way or another. Knowing that the coalition will shoot at them, they also had to know that it would help to incite the opposition.

I certainly hope that our opponents realize what had happened and that they probably would've done the same thing.

Stephanie wrote:It is indeed a tragedy, but they did what they had to do. I wonder if somehow this was a "setup" - a suicide driver or something to that affect that figured either way this would help the cause. They would go out as martyrs one way or another. Knowing that the coalition will shoot at them, they also had to know that it would help to incite the opposition.

I certainly hope that our opponents realize what had happened and that they probably would've done the same thing.

My thoughts exactly.

mf_dolphin wrote:This is one of the true tragedy's of war. I grieve for the loss of the innocents but these things happen during war. The soldiers who felt forced to fire will have to live with this for the rest of their lives. These are the burdens that come with military service in a time of war. May God grant all involved peace.

I agree, They were only doing their job and considering what happened with the taxi cab..The troops had to do everything to protect themselves. It is unfortunate but the civilians should have yielded to the soilders warnings :o

Johnathan

i totally agree, it's sad for the lives of civilians, but the stupid driver didn't stop, so he should be held accountable

Lindaloo wrote:Such propaganda Steve. If you could hear that kind of chatter you would be arrested for offering us that kind of information.

Had the driver of that bus heeded to the warnings to stop this would never have happened. I believe that bus driver was a suicide bomber who took no consideration of his passengers. Just goes to show you how those cockroaches operate and how they hold no value to civilians lives, especially the women and children. It was probably a bus load of women and children that had been taken from men who did not fight to defend that regime. We already have evidence that this is happening.

Just heard on the news that what I stated above may be the reasons this happened.