STORM2K

• Defense official says reports of Iraqi force moving toward U.S. troops from Baghdad was inaccurate intelligence

I was wondering what they were thinking... Wouldnt we just have bombed the hell out of them once they left the city limits?

yeh that would make sense chad. i hope everything else they're getting is wrong like that intelligence. i.e.) the thing about the chem weapons!

Well as sneaky and underhanded as those murderers are... I thought they were using this sandstorm to try and sneak out of Baghdad to try and surround our troops to ambush them. But there could be another side to it too. They are too stupid to know that once that storm lifted we would make them all sand dunes.

Me too JQ about the Chemical Weapons. But they have them or else why would they need chemical suits to protect themselves from weapons they do not have.

and elite troop movement south may NOT be what it seems: According to the British Commander, Saddam's thugs are invading homes, pulling people out of their own houses at gunpoint and making them get into tanks and trucks, then pointing them south. If they defect or try to escape, their family's are executed. Nice guys, huh? So those 'troops' may certainly be 'some' troops - but the rest are probably displaced family members. How awful. We need to get this madman OUT of power, including his wacko sons and the rest of his cronies. Years of sandstorms must have warped their minds... :8:

M2 wrote:and elite troop movement south may NOT be what it seems: According to the British Commander, Saddam's thugs are invading homes, pulling people out of their own houses at gunpoint and making them get into tanks and trucks, then pointing them south. If they defect or try to escape, their family's are executed. Nice guys, huh? So those 'troops' may certainly be 'some' troops - but the rest are probably displaced family members. How awful. We need to get this madman OUT of power, including his wacko sons and the rest of his cronies. Years of sandstorms must have warped their minds... :8:

M2,
With all due respect,are you a victim of our own propoganda?These supposed conscripts(and I am sure there are some)are combative.Indeed,this AM,Brit Air forces wiped out a convoy of 16 Iraqi armoured vehicles.Yes,stupid on thier part,however..many are young officers who were not fighting in Gulf War1.They made a fatal mistake.
It is impossible to say who are conscripts unwilling or willing.I don't fault you there.However,let's be realistic.
Here is another problem I have.Apparently,a Baghdad residential area was hit by Missiles on Wed.Immediatley,we put the blame on Iraqi SAM fire or AAA,'falling' on thier own city.Really.I have experience with this sort of thing..and 30 yrs ago,it happened,albeit rarely.Such Sophomoric retorts will eventually wear thin.If you doubt me,ask anyone who had experience with Surface to Air or Surface to Surface munitions.I had dinner last evening with a Decorated Ret. Marine Officer(Vietnam)..we were both amazed at what the media 'buys' and signs off on,then reguritates as truth.If there is a later report that nullifies it,it is shrugged off as(new War 'ism' ala 'Schmuck and Oy!'(Shock and Awe)possible 'Fog of War'.Please.
There is a viscious propoganda War being waged on sides,the impression being that Saddam had the upper hand.So,we step it up.We wouldn't be having this problem to the extent that we have to deal with it if:
A.We knocked out Iraqi TV(which,BTW,is back up after we supposedly took it out.
B.If Al Jazerra had been jammed.
This War is heavily Political..almost to the point of the absurd.The entire initial campaign seems based on the opinion that the Iraqis would fold,or at least rise up against Saddam and a mass exodus of reveling freed Iraqis would be waving the Stars and Stripes on the sides of Hwy 70 toward Jordan.This has not materialized as of yet.The Iraqi people are paranoid and desperate for basic needs,such as food and water.They have no time time think about Politics or rebuilding a Broken Nation.They have no clue.It was the thinking of the Pentagon that we could enforce just enough pressure on them to cry uncle...throttle it down or up depending on the reaction.We hold up for an epic Sandstorm only to find major firefights still in progress in at least 3 locations.So far..not so good.Micromanaging a War/Regime Change is tricky.I'm not second guessing the Brass..merley pointing out what I observe.It is premature after only a week to expect much more than what we are seeing.
Are these poor forced conscripts also lobbing the SCUDs at Kuwait?I trust no enemy.
BTW,there have been some impressive Sand/Dust storms in Phx Metro over the years.Is the population of Phx 'warped'?Possibly..but that's another subject for another day.

Arizwx Wrote:

...So far..not so good.Micromanaging a War/Regime Change is tricky.I'm not second guessing the Brass..merley pointing out what I observe.It is premature after only a week to expect much more than what we are seeing.
Are these poor forced conscripts also lobbing the SCUDs at Kuwait?I trust no enemy...

We are basically in agreement; one cannot trust an enemy during conflict. I also was just making an observation regarding one slice of the conflict methodology discussed by the commander during a briefing I heard late last night....And the converse is also true: Tucson and its inhabitants have been subjected to sandstorms itself.

"The enemy's options are now limited. They don't know what to do and they're guessing. It shows the command and control exercised by Baghdad has broken down. It's a suicidal approach which is irrational with no military logic to it. Military cohesion is sadly lacking," said Group Capt. Al Lockwood."

"They are being forced to fight by these militia. They are going into, apparently, people's homes, forcing the men to drive these vehicles to try and lead the escape out of Basra," said Lockwood. "They are obviously coercing them into this action, whereas in fact we would have wished them to surrender."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030327/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_iraqi_threats&cid=716&ncid=716

"Coalition officials Thursday said that Iraqi forces in Najaf and Basra have threatened Iraqis with death if they don't pick up arms against U.S.-led forces. "Iraqi paramilitaries are rounding up children and others from their homes, saying males must fight for the regime or be executed," said Jim Wilkinson, assistant to CentCom leader Tommy Franks. Burridge, the British commander, said the ruling Baath Party militia in Basra is pressuring remnants of the Iraqi army's 51st Division to reoccupy their equipment after intimidating them and by executing some soldiers' families in some instances."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/27/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html

Arizwx wrote:

M2 wrote:and elite troop movement south may NOT be what it seems: According to the British Commander, Saddam's thugs are invading homes, pulling people out of their own houses at gunpoint and making them get into tanks and trucks, then pointing them south. If they defect or try to escape, their family's are executed. Nice guys, huh? So those 'troops' may certainly be 'some' troops - but the rest are probably displaced family members. How awful. We need to get this madman OUT of power, including his wacko sons and the rest of his cronies. Years of sandstorms must have warped their minds... :8:

M2,
With all due respect,are you a victim of our own propoganda?These supposed conscripts(and I am sure there are some)are combative.Indeed,this AM,Brit Air forces wiped out a convoy of 16 Iraqi armoured vehicles.Yes,stupid on thier part,however..many are young officers who were not fighting in Gulf War1.They made a fatal mistake.
It is impossible to say who are conscripts unwilling or willing.I don't fault you there.However,let's be realistic.
Here is another problem I have.Apparently,a Baghdad residential area was hit by Missiles on Wed.Immediatley,we put the blame on Iraqi SAM fire or AAA,'falling' on thier own city.Really.I have experience with this sort of thing..and 30 yrs ago,it happened,albeit rarely.Such Sophomoric retorts will eventually wear thin.If you doubt me,ask anyone who had experience with Surface to Air or Surface to Surface munitions.I had dinner last evening with a Decorated Ret. Marine Officer(Vietnam)..we were both amazed at what the media 'buys' and signs off on,then reguritates as truth.If there is a later report that nullifies it,it is shrugged off as(new War 'ism' ala 'Schmuck and Oy!'(Shock and Awe)possible 'Fog of War'.Please.
There is a viscious propoganda War being waged on sides,the impression being that Saddam had the upper hand.So,we step it up.We wouldn't be having this problem to the extent that we have to deal with it if:
A.We knocked out Iraqi TV(which,BTW,is back up after we supposedly took it out.
B.If Al Jazerra had been jammed.
This War is heavily Political..almost to the point of the absurd.The entire initial campaign seems based on the opinion that the Iraqis would fold,or at least rise up against Saddam and a mass exodus of reveling freed Iraqis would be waving the Stars and Stripes on the sides of Hwy 70 toward Jordan.This has not materialized as of yet.The Iraqi people are paranoid and desperate for basic needs,such as food and water.They have no time time think about Politics or rebuilding a Broken Nation.They have no clue.It was the thinking of the Pentagon that we could enforce just enough pressure on them to cry uncle...throttle it down or up depending on the reaction.We hold up for an epic Sandstorm only to find major firefights still in progress in at least 3 locations.So far..not so good.Micromanaging a War/Regime Change is tricky.I'm not second guessing the Brass..merley pointing out what I observe.It is premature after only a week to expect much more than what we are seeing.
Are these poor forced conscripts also lobbing the SCUDs at Kuwait?I trust no enemy.
BTW,there have been some impressive Sand/Dust storms in Phx Metro over the years.Is the population of Phx 'warped'?Possibly..but that's another subject for another day.

Good points DJ. Yesterday morning when Centcom was having it's briefing on the war's status with the press, I almost had the feeling that the General (I forget his name) was alittle out of the loop. However, he did say it was entirely possible that the missle that exploded in the market area could've been one of the coalition's that went off course. I understand that that could happen, but I wish that they would be alittle more up front with what hasn't gone right so far. The news is once again stating that the missle could've been an Iraqi missle that went off target and that the Iraqi army is still heading south from Baghdad. What and whom do you believe?