Peace and love

[SolarQuestions]

What we need is peace, love, understanding, empathy, compassion, tolerance, gentleness, wisdom, trust, honesty, truth, patience....we need to live just like Christ would have lived in this world. We have to follow the ways of Christ.....Christ was not a name caller, mocker, ridiculer, liar, hater, back stabber, mistrusting, trouble-making (but in all irony his peace talking was trouble making...ironic huh) Peace is Christ ...think peace, live peace and the world will be a better place.

[streetsoldier]

That would only work when ALL men ascribe to His teachings.

Sadly, they DON'T...and, if I may quote Albert Einstein...

"As long as there are MEN, there will be WAR."

Get used to it...Al Qaida cannot be assuaged, persuaded, negotiated with, or pacified.

THIS GOES FOR EVERYONE READING THIS MESSAGE...if you are reading this, you are a TARGET.

It doesn't matter about your faith (or lack thereof), political leanings, race, sex, creed, color, national origin or sexual preference...our enemies want to KILL YOU, and everyone they can until they get what they want.

THEY will not stop...neither should WE.

[SolarQuestions]

What you are talking about then is an all out war.....all out wars have a tendency to escalate into something horrible....mabye in these times human beings have no choice but to find another way......i can see doom in our future with a war where the enemy can be anywhere. These times are very unique in the history of our planet and species. We stand on the threshold of total destruction in my opinion ...or total advancement and peace. But peace means no dropping of bombs and no shooting of guns ....that is peace....peace is NOT an oxymoron....peace means no violence.

[streetsoldier]

SQ, you got it!

In case you hadn't noticed, we ARE in the beginning of World War III...not necessarily against nations with uniformed and easily identifiable armies, but SOME nations and a shadowy, ever-increasing group of stateless thugs who are ready and WILLING to kill everyone who doesn't share their own 7th Century Islamic deviance....who are coddled, funded and allowed to hide within those rogue nations.

Go, then, and try to preach the Good News to these people on their own ground...we'll see you being executed, on videotape, in some empty house by one of these barbarians, soon enough.

[SolarQuestions]

If we cant have peace and we face total oblivion together ..."good guys" and "bad guys" ....then we have nothing to loose by attempting another way.....heck we face oblivion anyways. So lets be gung ho for peace. Jesus was tortured to death for it. Can we do any less ?

LoL... if we are going to die anyways lets die for something really noble.

[streetsoldier]

General George S. Patton would like to have a word with you...

"No poor, dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the OTHER poor, dumb bastard die for HIS country!"

Personally, I want to LIVE, in this life and the next...and I WILL fight if NECESSITY DICTATES that I must...in defense of my person, family, neighbor, or Country.

[SolarQuestions]

but the question still is .....what is the best path to long life for ourselves and our species here on this planet? ......is it war or peace? And dont get the two mixed up ..war is war and peace is peace. ....peace means no violence in any way...and war means all sorts of violence in many ways.


And the problem with pattons statment is ....the other guy (the enemy) is thinking the same thing he was...lol

[streetsoldier]

Only God Himself has the answer to that, SQ...and there IS a reason for everything, good or ill, that we here on this rock have to face day-to-day.

But, we will NOT know, until we are in His Presence, how our little "thread" fit into His Grand Design...as it will, for did HE not say, "The harvest is assured...therefore, can you add one hour to your life by worrying?"

So, I don't.

[SolarQuestions]

I dont worry about the worlds condition but i do think about it..hence that is why im here on these boards ...and probably why you are to ...we are thinking human beings ...its our nature to think and ponder...its ok ...its healthy. And who knows we might stumble upon something that can help ...lol

[azskyman]

Wish it were that easy as to paint the world with one broad brush.

Peace and love have been relative terms through recorded (and surely prerecorded) history. To understand and appreciate their meaning at all, we must measure them against the darker side of war and hate. One has no meaning without knowing, without feeling, the other. The color red would mean nothing without a contrasting color from which to measure.

Man is limited in his ability to know truth. He trusts his senses, not his heart. He trusts those things he can see and do...not those that require great leaps of faith. He is infinitely limited to grasp the big picture, and as such is mired in the moment.

The God I know provides us opportunity to experience much as humans...the range from happiness to sadness, from anger to elation, from contentment to desire. As such, we are left to our frailty to thus carry out our lives in search of the elusive peace and love on which you premise this post.

So if for this moment it is deemed noble by some to eradicate one source of hate and anger while another be born...it is at least an effort worth undertaking. To lie in wait in a passive state is to diminish God's great gift of hope in the presence of despair. Hope, too, is listless without seeking to attain it.

We need not hate the messengers, but can surely justify the need to quell the message. Silencing wrong, silencing calls to hate and violence, is surely a noble cause. Only in the pain of that experience can we measure future risk, and future peaceful times...another sign of God's artful craftsmanship in giving us the choice to stand up for that which we consider worth dying for.

If the journey is attached to the search for harmony...then we are indeed in service to Him in however that plays out; whether war or peace greet us along the path.

[coriolis]

Solar Questions: It is true that we are to live as he DID. (I have a little problem with trying to say what he would do now. Thats a bit presumptious, I think) Peace, love, etc., are the qualities that he showed, and those are the qualities we are to have. But He also exhibited anger and violence (the incident in the temple).

Christ did not come to make the world a better place. I skimmed thru the gospels again, and confirmed that he did not once speak out against the secular government. If there ever was a system that needed "social justice" and peace and goodwill, it was the Roman State. Slavery, wars, oppression, economic injustice, immorality, idolatry, greed, you name it, it was present in the Roman state. He did not preach about reforming the state. He preached about reforming the hearts of men. He didn't come to make the world a better place, he came to save us from the world! He spoke about the kingdom of God that transcends this world. In his only reference to Rome, he said "Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceasers." His message is so transcendent that it makes the world system irrelevant. I believe that it was God's plan that the Roman Empire was to rise. The Roman Empire, with all the wars and killing, and oppression that it practiced. Why? maybe to create a period where the Gospel could be disseminated throughout the world? Maybe to have a time when the Jews would be in their homeland, so this could all unfold? I don't know. We don't know all of Gods plan.

Jesus taught that we are to be like him in our dealings with others. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick. He didn't call on the Roman Government to create programs to do that, HE did it. Love your neighbor, not vote someone in who will improve the welfare program. That is a cop out - it gets you off the hook. Get someone else to do what Jesus taught so you can feel better about yourself, while you hate the neighbor next door because he mows his lawn early in the morning while you're trying to sleep, or because he has a new SUV in his driveway. Wrong!

As far as peace and war, He taught that there will be wars, and suffering, and all kinds of horrible things. These are necessary for the fulfillment of the plan. It's not his doing - the evil in the world needs to play out and be seen for what it is. It's not up to us to try to improve the world, or create peace and love throughout the world. It will never happen. The idea of creating utopia on earth is a deception. It's man trying again to be the creator. All the evil in the world is the result of individuals rejecting Gods truth. No one is going to change that by going around saying "Peace and Love." Only God can change a person's heart. If a person rejects it, he will do evil.

Through all the troubles in the world, salvation is there for anyone that asks. It says that only a remmnant will be saved. That's who he came for, and that's who he will come for again. We need to be busy loving our neighbor and preparing ourselves. The Hippies had one good saying: "Think globally, act locally." There's wisdom in that.

I'm still thinking about the role of the United States. It is said that this country was founded on Christian principles. That's all well and good, but the United States is not going to save the world either. In many ways, the US is no better than Rome. The US may have a place in God's plan, but again, I think that we're being presumptious to say we know what that plan is. I think that we are getting a bit distracted in the "war against terrorism." Are we to defend our families and neighbors against evil? Yes, of course - but, we have to realize where the evil is coming from, and the real ways to fight it. If the US is destined to fall, so be it. Maybe we're too worried about our lifestyle. This is not His kingdom. We can't grow weary of doing good.

Complicated, huh? These are interesting times. There's a lot to sift through. And I've got a lot of work to do in my own life.

[stormchazer]

Look at the below principles and tell me if Peace is the only option. Even Biblical Scholars believe war is sometimes necessary to achieve the greater good. Notice the item about "reasonable chance of success". I submit that preaching peace even if it means death is a major violation of that principle. Love is great if the other is capable of loving you back but the enemy we fight, seems incapable of this.

Principles of the Just War

A just war can only be waged as a last resort, after reasonable attempts to bring justice have been exhausted.

A just war can only be waged by a legitimate authority. People, vigilantes, terrorists do not wage just wars; only a legitimate government is permitted to wage a war that can be considered justified.

A just war can only be fought to redress wrongs that have been committed. A first strike attack on a nation that has committed no atrocities cannot be considered justice; that's aggression.

A just war can only be fought with "right" intentions. War is not justified to gain control of another nation, it's assets or it's people. If the right intention for going to war is not present, justice is not present.

A just war can only be fought if there is a reasonable chance of success. Deaths and injury incurred in a hopeless cause are not morally justifiable.

A just war can only be fought if the ultimate goal is to re-establish peace. More specifically, war is not justified if the situation in a country cannot be reasonably expected to be better after the war than before.

A just war must never allow the force used to be disproportional to the need. Nations must be prohibited from using force not necessary to attain the limited objective of addressing the wrongs that have been committed.

A just war must employ weapons and tactics that discriminate between combatants and non-combatants. Innocent civilians are never permissible targets of war, and war can only be just if every effort is made to avoid civilian casualties.


http://www.backtothebible.org/radio/war_iraq.htm

http://www.bible.com/answers/awar.html

http://www.antithesis.com/features/bibleonwar.html

What The Bible Says About War
12 Biblical Rules of Engagement in The Just War
There is such a thing as a just war. Sin in the world and the unwillingness of evil peoples to live peaceably with those around them oftentimes oppressing and victimizing vulnerable people makes a just war to stop them a necessity. War is a horrible thing (see Psalm 79:3; Jeremiah 7:33; 15:3; 16:4; 34:20). But if peace and justice cannot be established by peaceful means, a just war is the alternative. The Bible does give guidelines for a just war and they are as follows. Click here for more detailed study notes and Real Audio messages on "What The Bible Says
About War."

http://www.calvarychapel.com/hope/library/stauffer-claude/studies-topical/war/

1. Pray for guidance in a just war. Prayer is a declaration of dependence upon God and in the tension between attempting to avoid war as much as possible and also not appeasing foolishly an aggressor to try and maintain peace, God's wisdom and direction is indispensable. God's wisdom is obtained through prayer (2 Samuel 5:17-19).

2. Those fighting a just war should depend on God's resources, not just their own earthly resources. The resources of God are far more important than any earthly resources. For instance, God's angels are far mightier than any human soldier and He will send them to help when we fight in a just war (2 Chronicles 32:8; Psalm 3; 4:8; 35:1-7; Isaiah 37:36).

3. Always keep in mind that earthly wars have spiritual elements. Paul was inspired to write that our primary battle is not against flesh and blood people but against Satan and his minions and we should fight it as such (Ephesians 6:10-18).

4. As much as is possible, overcome evil with good. Even though military force is sometimes needed, mercy and goodness is to be shown to enemies as much as possible (2 Samuel 9:1-8; Psalm 35:11-16; Proverbs 25:21-22; Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-36; Romans 12:14,20-21).

5. Don't war vengefully but leave revenge in the hands of God. A heart of revenge can lead to atrocities in war. Those fighting a just war must release any thought of revenge to the Lord. Who better to dish out justice rightly than the Just One of the universe? (Romans 12:19-20; 1 Thessalonians 1:6-7).

6. Don't take pleasure in the demise or pain of your enemy. Even though the elimination of a ruthless enemy is sought, we should never take pleasure in the pain of another no matter how evil. Taking pleasure in the pain experienced by an enemy displeases God (Proverbs 24:17-18).

7. Understand there are those who will refuse peaceful means of reconciliation or problem resolution. Some refuse diplomacy (Palm 120:6-7).

8. Understand there are ruthless and evil entities in the world. These need to be dealt with for they destroy the peace and victimize the helpless at every turn (Psalm 41:5; 54:3; Ezekiel 36:5-7).

9. Those who persist in evil and refuse to live at peace are to be firmly dealt with in the Lord. We are not to sit back and do nothing or continually appease those who do evil (Psalm 109). We are not to be naive or pacifistic.

10. Allow the enemy to undermine and defeat himself if possible. Dictators and tyrants are often destroyed from within. Wait for this and facilitate it if you can (Psalm 57:6).

11. Forgive enemies once they are defeated. Jesus said, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." Stephen said, "Lord, do not charge them with this sin." We should treat enemies as God has treated us for we were enemies of God before coming to Christ and He forgave us (Luke 23:34; Acts 7:60; Colossians 1:21-23).

12. Fear God more than the enemy. This will motivate those fighting a just war to fight it according to God's rules and not their own (Matthew 10:28).

[SolarQuestions]

What if one innocent person gets killed in a "just war" ....how can it be just ...its not just to that innocent one. When man starts playing like a divine being and saying who should live and who should die and what is just and what is not we are in deep trouble. Governments have been known to be corrupt and if the people dont see it or speak out against it then they are no better than the corrupt government.

what about nazi germany ...they had a legitimate government ...at least to the germans that is. It is too easy for a government to try and convince the people of any atrocity ...history has shown this. And when the people follow the bad government they all head to a cliff and fall off ...its always like that.

and about peace and love ....the bottom line is what decisions do you make in your everyday life regarding your fellow human being...is it one of compassion and understanding and empathy ...or is a quick rush to judgment based on incomplete facts ....i have noticed people love to run to the quick judgment as fast as possible regardless if they have all the facts ...it seems to make them sane. But that sanity is based on a bad foundation so they better watch out ....and this business of neighbor helping neighbor and people helping one another and us not needing programs such as welfare ....LOL ...i dont know what planet those people that believe that live on but i have noticed that people in general care about their own little worlds and really dont give a flying leap about anyone else.....Because people just dont want to get involved with another persons life that could be down on their luck ....Heck what if that person helps bring them down a little ...its a gamble no doubt and too often people just dont want to get involved with other people ...too risky. The homeless man on the street can tell you that ...ive known plenty of them.

Its truly amazing how cold and indifferent people can be but they better watch out because one day they might need something in the worst way and what comes around goes around ...they could be met with just as much coldness and indifference. Yes unfortunately we do need programs to help the less fortunate because you know as well as i deep down that there are very few people in this world who want to get involved in helping the less fortunate ...everyone looks out for their own. Thats the harsh reality ....and besides if it doesnt go to the poor it will go to the rich ...dont you forget for one second that their are many many government programs for those with lots of money already.....its all covered up and the poor are scapegoated...........i once saw this little tiny park around my way that "had to be refurbished' ...at a cost of 50000 dollars...yea right !!!! LOL ..i wonder who lined their pockets with that (and they will never see a seconds worth of jail time)....LOL ....see the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and everyone scapegoats the poor ...rich, middleclass ...it doesnt matter. This world is NOT about fairness and love and kindness and understanding ..its about hate, judging, loathing, lying, secrets, war, violence, paranoia, scapegoating, mocking, ridiculing...this world runs on pure evil. And war is simply another welfare money making scheme. War is big bucks buddy.

[azskyman]

This world is NOT about fairness and love and kindness and understanding ..its about hate, judging, loathing, lying, secrets, war, violence, paranoia, scapegoating, mocking, ridiculing...this world runs on pure evil.

I do not know how old you may be...or all the pain you have experienced in life, but clearly your perspective is tainted with pain and sadness.

The world is as it will be. A long way from Disneyland. But neither the depths of Hell as you describe.

I have experienced close loss, witnessed the untimely deaths of grade school children by an F4 tornado, served in Vietnam, and have been blindsided privately and publicly by people I called my friends.

I have felt anger, felt pain, felt disappointment, felt frustration, and felt betrayal.

Yet in all these times, in all these things, I sometimes need only open my eyes or ears or heart to see good things around me each and every day. Never does a day go by...even those that start with terrible news...that I don't see something good or see the good in another. Never.

I'd remind you SQ that the world around you has the same opportunity as mine. You can be drawn into all that is dark and sad and bad, or you can choose to open your eyes and heart to see and feel the good that this world can provide.

I said a silent prayer at my keyboard just now...that you would be witness to something good in the day that follows. Watch for it. Listen for it. Recognize it when it happens.

Perhaps you will find more sunlight in your life if you take the time to notice. I hope so.

[streetsoldier]

SQ, may I suggest a healthy dose of C.S. Lewis?

Some, which may help you place things in proper perspective are The Four Loves, Joy, Mere Christianity, The Screwtape Letters and the "Space Trilogy" (Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, That Hideous Strength)...just for starters.

Clive Staples Lewis didn't sugar-coat anything about the human condition in his writings, but he is still known as one of the foremost Christian apologists (defenders) of all time. And, despite the heartbreaks of which you speak (and he wrote), he was consistently a man of great faith...and wisdom.

[SolarQuestions]

Good, genuine, positive replies ...not bad at all....yes i have seen a lot....i havent been in the service but i have seen a lot of tragedy in my life ..all for nonsense to in my opinion. Complete and total nonsense ....Ive done some of that nonsense myself and i have regretted it my whole life....I like to believe i have become a little wiser because of it ...if not a whole lot more cynical....But I kept being told that a healthy dose of cynicism was never bad along with skepticism....But i will tell you this ...i still see beauty and love in my mind and sometimes in real life. Im a photogragher and video head now and i try to capture as much of the beauty as i can. And im also a poet.

I was raised around petty thieves, conartist, junkies, whores, "reporters", "double-agent"s, stab in the backs, weirdos and screwballs....many of these people were in my own family....Its amazing i didnt ever wind up dead before my time....I like to believe i have become a better person because i seen the bs, nonsense and junk and rebelled against it by trying to be the best person i could be....i didnt want to be like them...and more than that i gained some insight into a world that could help others get out from under.

So what ive known people that would sell you out for 50.00 ...it doesnt matter.... I have a heart and a soul and i believe God gave me them to use...learn and grow....Peace to both of you.

[SolarQuestions]

My father was in the army and marines ...marines in ww2 (the end of) and the army in Korea....he survived all that ...he came back to the states in one piece....he lived until 1967 ...two months after i was born he got killed here in the states.....shot in the head several times ...dead. No father....I was adopted by my grandmother because my mother was an idiot and liar ( guess there the same) I have no respect for her. I was one of 3 other brothers i was the youngest ...so that is why i was adopted. I was born with a deformity to top it all off. And to top that off i was raised by a russian-jewish grandmother in an all italian neighbor...many were very racist. There was bigotry inside and outside of my family. There was more peace in the middle east than in my family...we love to hate each other. We love to mock and ridicule each other. It was a way of life in my family. And all i ever wanted was love then and now. I say that without shame ...go through what ive been through and youll say it without shame to.


My brothers and sisters were in and out of boarding schools and foster care because my mother neglected them to the point they were hustling on the streets. They were not as lucky as me....weird huh? ....i was so lucky. The ONLY solid foundation in my family was my grandmother. That was it. I had one piece of hope and love in my life. And even she was pretty stoic and stern but she did love me...just not in a worded way.

[azskyman]

I can't begin to understand all the turmoil and anguish in your life, but I can surely see a person who can use all that experience in good ways in all future days.

Each of us; all of us have experienced the pain of rejection and humiliation, and in our own ways have carried burdens all through our lives that continue today.

Your story is one of hope, not despair. One of light, not darkness. Now in your mid 30's, you can sift through that painful past and bring about good things for yourself and others.

Recognition that none of us can change those events gone by is important. Even more important is to realize that we can let go of that and look ahead in all that we do through eyes of experience.

[SolarQuestions]

thanks but you know what ...as messed up as my family life was i have seen it (to some degree) across the board where ever i went so far in this country...From rich to poor and all classes in between ....youd be surprised how corrupt thinking people can be in any economic class. But in general I try to keep writing positives and try to point out where i have seen too many errors be made. I have taken some beautiful photographs and video from inner city to suburbs and rural areas. There are wonders out there in the small corners.

I like people i really do....but sometimes people are tough to like ...i wont even talk about love at this point ...lol

Peace out good buddy.