STORM2K

Well....without a doubt, this is gonna be a VERY heated topic but PLEASE....let's keep it civil!

We have been going thru some VERY hard times as of late with Michelles mother, she's been diagnosed with aortic stenosis, a closing off of the main artery to the heart. She's 86 years old, in poor health to begin with, high blood pressure and numerous other ailments. The cure for the stenosis is rather simple, a stent is placed in the artery.....simple enough right? Well, she has a leaky heart valve and is on Cumadine (sp) a blood thinner, SO.....in order to have the stint placed, she would have to go off the blood thinner for 10 days, which in turn *might* cause her to have major heart failure. SO.....the family, including myself, has made a decission based up this information from the cardioligst NOT to have the stint done.

Bottom line.....has modern medicine advanced too far and prolonged life beyond a persons life expectancy? Have we kept loved ones alive for selfish reasons or the doctors greed? I've known quite a few elderly folks that live a healthy life without the modern medicines and others that IF they were not on meds would not be with us.

Dennis

Dennis, she's 86, and, in poor health, right? If the treatment
is more damaging than the actual condition, then, I think you
know what this 'ole nurse would say!

I'll send prayers up for her, and, for you and Michelle!

Well, I don't believe that we have done a bad thing in prolonging life...its just more time we have to spend with them in my opinion, that's a great thing, I hope my folks live to 80 or 85........

Well, until very recently (historically), the average life expectancy was but 35, and often less; and one must ask, if God gave men the ability and technology to prolong life to Biblical standards (72 or longer), who are we to question Him?

I do understand the implications of a stint insertion, Dennis....I believe you have done the right thing.

Well, my aunt has managed to survive kidney cancer, bladder cancer and a broken hip, coupled with advanced Alzheimers. She is 79 and has no idea who any of us are and is no longer to walk, speak coherently and must be fed and is incontinent. My cousin has continued to take her to the doctor two times a week or more for her many health ailments, she's on more drugs than Carter has pills and has strict dietary requirements. He was actually trying to convince the doctor to do a kidney transplant on her or start dialysis! He has decided to use a feeding tube once she can no longer swallow, against the doctors advice. This woman has had enough as have the rest of the family except him, who (in my opinion) continues to keep her alive since she is all he has, which is not only cruel but selfish. He has alienated the rest of the family in the process as we can no longer bear to watch her suffer as he assuages his guilt for leaving her alone for 25 years as her health declined. Modern medicine has kept her alive, but why? The kidney cancer will spread, the Alzheimers will continue to advance. What good is it doing? If my aunt were of sound mine, she would rather die than go through this. I'm sure all of ya'll are gonna faint when you read I've typed this, but in this case, Dr. Kevorkian would be a good choice. For both of them. Sorry if it offends anyone, just my two cents worth.

I too think that God has given us the power to enable people to live longer, healthier lives. I also think that He intervenes in His own way when that person's time on this earth is done. I think that you and Michelle and the rest of the family have made a very difficult, but compassionate decision.

Dennis, this has got to be the toughest decision you've faced. If you have peace about the decision, then you've made the right one. Yes, our technology puts us in the position of "playing god" and it's a moral and ethical dillema to say the least.

eb, I can't imagine how you must be torn up by your situation. Hopefully the situation will be resolved, and your family will be brought together.

Dennis... the choice you made had to be a tough one but like Stephanie said

I think that you and Michelle and the rest of the family have made a very difficult, but compassionate decision.

Mike

my mother has decided to have a DNR if her heart gives out on her. Since she is suffering from liver failure and congestive heart failure at the same time, the act of bring her back with a crash cart is not something she wants to go through. She has decided that this is what SHE wants, not what we decided for her.

As time goes, techonology advances and the life expectancy increases, as it should. I wouldn't think we would want our loved ones to pass on at a younger age because "they aren't supposed to live."

One of my aunt's (my father's brother's wife) passed away last week and my uncle (my mother's sister's brother) may pass away in the next day or two. She had diabetes and was in her late 70's, he is as well and apparently his doctor caused him to get liver cancer somehow; sorry I don't know the specifics.

well i have a living will. i do not want machines. i believe that we all need to have a will that state, what we want and not what a family member wants. dennis and eb my heart goes out to ur families, this has got to be a hard on all. when we love someone we dont want to let them go. but i cant stand to see ppl suffer, and i personally do not want my kids to have to make a decision. just my 2cents worth

Technology could make us live to 125 later in life. If the person wanted the technology to be "pulled", im sure they would let them know earlier in time.

David, I mean the technology that increased the life expectency from 35 years old years ago to the mid 70's now... not the technology itself keeping us alive until 125 years of age.

I understand that, Tom. I wasn;t doubting anything in your post.. I was just stating a fact that I belive.

I understand. It sounded like a response, as well Thanks, David.

eb4480......this sounds JUST like a friends mother here in town. Michelles best friends mother suffers greatly with Alzheimers, congestive heart faliure and what do the doctors do?? They install a pace maker!!!!! This poor woman does not know where she's at, has NO quality of life what so ever, now why on EARTH did the doctors do this??? God this makes me MAD!

My own mother passed away 8 years ago, soon to be 9 this coming Feb......anyways, she died from complications of diabeties. She had breast cancer, unable to speak because of mini strokes. My father, a strong man at 75 then, took care of her for 2 solid years, she was totally bed ridden, unable to do ANYTHING for herself. The diabeties first took a toe, then another, then the foot, then the leg......she finally went ceptic (sp) a total body infection, the only thing keeping her alive was the antibiotics. The doctor made numerous house calls, one evening, he called us all there, my sisters and I and told us that my father along with himself had made the decission to quite giving her the antibio's. In 2 short days the Lord called her home. I loved my mother like no one else and yet....I "HATED" to see her lay there unable to talk, anything, had it not been for the antibio's, she would have gone to the Father 2 years sooner. Was my father guilty of keeping her alive for those 2 years, I don't know.......this is another issue I've been dealing with for the past 8 years, "When do you say enough suffering is enough?"

Dennis

My Mom died July 3, 1995. She died on her's and Dad's anniversary. Her Dr. had her on too many meds without keeping a good check on her liver. She got Cirroses. She signed the papers for the paramedics not to try to bring her back. She said she was sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'm glad she did so because her quality of life had gone WAY down. It had gotten so bad that she was imagining things and didn't know anyone. I still love and miss Mama but I can't see prolonging something like that. You've made the right choice. I think it's God's way of saying that she's done well all these years and it's time to rest. Lord knows she probably has been through enough hard times to deserve it. Leave well enough alone. What's the saying? Let go and let God.

God Bless,
Debbie

This topic really got me to thinking last night. I lost my father to Hodgkin's Disease when I was 6 (36 years ago) and he was only 42. At that time, there was NOTHING that medicine could do, modern or otherwise. As fate would have it, two weeks after my dad was diagnosed, my mom was diagnosed with cervical cancer. Obviously SOMEONE had to survive to take care of me and there was something that medicine could do for my mom, so she's still here, alive and kicking, no recurrence of cancer since that one incident. So, medicine CAN be a good thing. However, since she was a nurse when my dad was so bad off, and he wanted to die at home (which he did -Christmas Day, lucky us) she bore the burden of his last 6 months of care at home. The emotional toll of being a caregiver can be overwhelming, always wanting to take the best care of someone, always questioning whether you are doing a good enough job. She was fortunate in a sense that Dad was lucid up until the end, unfortunate in the sense that he begged her repeatedly to just overdose him on Demerol, which she refused to do. She still questions everything she did to this day. She can barely bring herself to speak about it without completely breaking down, and this woman is the most unemotional woman I know. Bottom line, we all have to do what we think is right in our own situation and hope that we receive some sort of guidance, be it from God, some other higher power, our family, our doctor, whoever. I personally believe God allows a person's life to be prolonged, whether we like it or not, because there is something that still needs to occur either in the person that is ill, or those closest to them. I will question why until I die, at which point, hopefully, I'll be shown why. But thanks to medicine my mom is still here, and most folk diagnosed with Hodgkins now can be put in complete remission. So, some medical advancements are worth it.

VERY, VERY Well said eb, very well said! Indeed, modern medicine in SOME instances IS good, that's why, as it's been stated, God gave man the knowledge to do so BUT......there are cases, that man has tried to play God. And a HUGE Yes to your remark, God does not call someone home UNTIL their work on this earth is done, we DO, after all, have a purpose in life and it's sometimes not UNTIL after the person crosses over that we realize just what their purpose was.

Dennis

Dennis,
You are in one of those situations where God has called forth your faith. Yes, we have the ability to heal and prolong life and that is sometimes a wonderful gift. It does not always turn out bad. When faced with decisions such as yours and Michelle's, it is just simply time to listen to God's answers, not medical proffessionals or even your own. We have to learn when to hush and just listen. I know how strong yours and Michelle's faith is and when you base a decision based on that faith, it is the right one. You are in my prayers always and give Michelle a big hug for me ((((((hugs to both))))))