STORM2K

Parent: Keep students on campus at lunchtime

By Kelley Bruss
kbruss@greenbaypressgazette.com

Barb Kiefer's campaign to close lunch hours at Green Bay's four public high schools isn't scoring points with her son, a sophomore at East High — or other Green Bay students, for that matter.

But Kiefer said the issue's too important to ignore. And she thinks her son will thank her later for leading the parent effort.

Kiefer and others have collected more than 500 signatures on a petition to close the campuses. She hopes to have many more when she brings the petition to the Green Bay School Board later this month.

"When I send my son to school at 7:30 in the morning, I expect him to be in school all day," Kiefer said. "I don't like the idea that they let them out for an hour at lunch and they can pretty much do whatever they want."

Students' response: "Whatever they want" just equals lunch for most teens.

"People are mad about it (the petition drive) I guess because only a few people screw around," said David Leonhard, 14, a freshman at Southwest High.

"They shouldn't ruin it for other people if there's only one person causing trouble," said Southwest sophomore Steffanie King, 16. "Most people actually behave themselves for lunch."

District administrators are aware of both the petition and the issue, which the district plans to review in the next few years.

"We're certainly putting it as a priority," said Assistant Superintendent David Zadnik. "It has been identified in the (district's strategic) plan. It's just a matter of time to get to it and study it."

A study of open vs. closed campuses is part of the district's plan for reducing truancy, one of six key goals in the strategic plan. However, the study is listed as priority three, which means it's not scheduled to be handled until at least the 2005-06 school year.

"I'm assuming that we're probably going to be collecting data throughout but then look at it down the road," Zadnik said. "That doesn't mean with the community input, the community saying that this is a major issue, that that couldn't move up."

To Kiefer, the multi-year timeline is unacceptable.

"We want it to be done now; we don't want it to be a three-year process," she said.

Making the case

Kiefer lists vandalism, drugs, alcohol and sex when she talks about what she hears goes on in and around empty homes at lunchtime.

"Just don't give them that opportunity, that's how we look at it as parents," Kiefer said. "Keep them in school, for crying out loud. A lot of these issues would be totally eliminated."

Kiefer's not the only one to make that case. From law enforcement's perspective, open campuses provide opportunity for mischief and worse, said Lt. Jim Arts of the Green Bay Police Department.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a lot of our minor crimes — vandalism, theft, car accidents — occur during the lunch hours," Arts said. "There's places that hire off-duty officers to patrol at noon hour, just because of the kids."

Arts isn't officially involved in the petition drive. But that doesn't mean he's not supportive.

"I'm not going to say that I didn't encourage that," said Arts, who, until recently, supervised the investigative division in charge of the juvenile division and the 10 liaison officers who work in Green Bay schools.

He acknowledges the students' point — it's not the majority causing the problems. Still, he thinks a change to closed campuses would make a positive difference for the schools and the community.

"All of the liaison officers who work regularly in the schools are 100 percent for it," Arts said.

Break in the day

Papa John’s Pizza, near the corner of West Mason Street and Packerland Drive, is one of the establishments Southwest students frequent.

"I don't mind the kids; they clean up after themselves," said general manager John Allen.

He said he doesn't make a lot of money on student lunch visits, but he still thinks the campuses should stay open.

"They should have their lunch," Allen said.

Students said the time out of the building helps break up the day.

"It's like nice to get out of school, get a break," said Southwest freshman Luke Kaster, 14.

Others agree.

"It's kind of like a refreshment from class," said Southwest senior Kristine Kallerud, 17.

"I'd go psycho if I was trapped in school all day," King added.

Truancy link

Barb Kiefer thinks the open campus policy exacerbates the district's truancy problem. Students who weren't allowed to leave wouldn't be tempted to leave and not come back, she said.

Zadnik said that's one of the things the district will want to study.

Open-campus lunches make it difficult for police officers to handle truants, Arts said.

With multiple lunch hours extending from around 10:30 a.m. to about 1 p.m., it's impossible to know who's absent from class and who's just out for lunch.

"If we did have something like closed campus, we would know who belongs," Arts said.

Options, considerations

Lest they appear too hard-line, parent petitioners are offering an olive branch to students, who they expected would be upset by the effort.

"We would like to see the campus closed for freshmen, sophomores and juniors and then have it open for seniors on a privilege basis," Barb Kiefer said.

She said she's gotten positive response from people she talks to about the petition. Some parents have asked to sign but also said they don’t want their children to know they did.

Her own child is upset with her: "I'm like, 'Too bad, someday you'll look back and know why I did this,'" Kiefer said.

If Green Bay's study resulted in a decision to switch to closed lunches, Zadnik said, it wouldn’t be a simple matter of saying to students: "You can't leave."

The district would have to consider whether campuses would be closed for all grades and would have to evaluate space in the schools’ commons to see how many lunch periods would be needed to accommodate all the students.

The length of lunch hour — 52 minutes now, plus a 4-minute passing period — also would have to be examined.

"I don't think we'd want to hold kids for 56 minutes in a closed campus," Zadnik said.

Kiefer said she understands that closing campuses is complicated.

"It will be some work for them to put this together, but I think we as taxpayers have the right to ask for that," she said

High school lunch policies

• Ashwaubenon: closed campus; three lunch periods, 30 minutes each.

• Bay Port (Howard-Suamico): closed campus; three lunch periods, 30 minutes each.

• East De Pere: closed campus for freshmen, sophomores and juniors, open campus for seniors; two lunch periods, 30 minutes each. (Seniors who have enough credits can choose to take both periods for lunch.)

• Denmark: open campus; two lunch periods, 30 minutes each.

• Green Bay: open campus; two or three lunch periods, depending on the school, 52 minutes each.

• Notre Dame: closed campus; two lunch periods, 32 minutes each.

• Pulaski: closed campus; three lunch periods, 37 minutes each.

• West De Pere: closed campus; two lunch periods, 25 minutes each.

• Wrightstown: closed campus; two lunch periods, 35 minutes each.

• Menasha: open campus; three lunch periods 40 minutes each.

• Neenah: closed campus

• Appleton (all public highs): open campus;

We have always had a closed lunch. I don't see the problem with it. On this issue, but somewhat unrelated, I think that students eat healthier with closed lunches than they do with open ones.

I always had closed campus, but of course, that was 24 years ago. I'd be on the closed campus side of the fence. With open campus do the schools still serve lunch? Going into town for lunch would be a lot more expensive. I would not give my kids $3 or $4 or $5 or more a day for lunch. I have 4 kids in school. That would turn into big bucks real fast.

We have open campus (high school only) here, and there's not enough time to do anything BUT get to Mickey D's, Wendy's or Burger King, eat, and get back to school...40 minutes, tops.

I might also add that, as a teacher, I availed myself of leaving campus to eat, and the kids didn't abuse the privilege. In fact, they rather enjoyed the opportunity to talk to me "outside" the school, sharing their time with me like an old classmate...and I liked it as well.

Besides, I SAW what was on the menu, posted a week in advance on the local public station...can y'all give me a YUK?

Our school was open campus, they still are. I would have to say I would choose to close it to under classmen. Heard too many times where kids have gotten into accidents trying to get to a fastfood place and driving to fast to get there and back.

coriolis wrote:I always had closed campus, but of course, that was 24 years ago. I'd be on the closed campus side of the fence. With open campus do the schools still serve lunch? Going into town for lunch would be a lot more expensive. I would not give my kids $3 or $4 or $5 or more a day for lunch. I have 4 kids in school. That would turn into big bucks real fast.

Oh yeah *YUCK* they still serve slop.

Really... more kids would eat cafeteria food if it were recognizable or remotely appealing in presentation. But that would cost money and schools don't have the money to spend. I remember in the 6th grade the school went out of it's way to do a coney dog lunch on fridays- and kids ATE thier lunches there. Hot dogs are at least recognizable!

I'm on the open campus side of the fence. I graduated back in '98 and we had a Senior only open campus (which could be revoked for any number of reasons) we had 2 lunch periods at about 40 min a piece... what lunch you ate was TOATLLY dependant on what class you were taking at the lunch period. (For 3 of 4 years I was in the honors chorale and the teacher assigned lunches based on vocal parts that she wanted to reherse together.

There was NEVER enough room for us. 2 years before I got there they installed 6 or 7 benches out in the open courtyard and kids were forced to eat out there because there wa no room in the cafeteria. The year I got there they finally opened up some HALLWAYS for students to eat in and allowed students to eat on the floor of the cafeteria when it rained. Frankly- there was no place else to eat. 3 of my 4 years I ate in a small hallway outside of the choir room on the ground or left campus to find a decent place to sit. My freshman year was miserable though, as I always ate in the courtyard- and when it rained there were a number of outdoor overhangs that you could group together under... but there were too many kids to fit under them comfortably. (Fortunatly someone told me about the choir hall before I went nuts)

I'm NOT kidding. I'm NOT exagerating- and this was the overcrowding situation WITH open campus senior lunches. Fortunetly we live in the tropics so there were rarely extreme conditions that we had to eat in- but I understand they're still putting more and more students than the years past into my school.... leading to more and more overcrowding.

And this wasn't some underfunded inner city school. This was/is one of the top 2 schools in the city and one of the top 5 in the state. We had all the newest equipment money could buy- we had a massive campus 3 stories high and several hallways. Best of the best. Some of the best neighborhoods in the city filtered directly into this school- and we were eating in the rain.

If school systems continue to insist that more students be pumped into already overcrowded schools- At LEAST give the students the chance to get off campus for lunch. Eating at the Prima Pasta down the street was a FAR sight better than being croded into a cafeteria too small- a courtyard exposed to the elements- or eating on the floor in a hallway.

*shakes head* The more I think about it- the more reasons I'm all for open lunches. I don't want any kid of mine spending half an hour of the 40 min lunch trying to navigate a school lunch line- spending 5 min trying to find someplace to sit or stand... then spending half of the time assigned to get to thier next class trying to return the stupid platters to the lunchroom.

My parents never really understood. I guess back in the '70's schools had room for students during lunch hours. And hey- maybe my school was unusual. But I'm all for open lunches.

The high school I went to (from 1992 to 1996) allowed seniors to leave the premises during "lounge periods" and during lunch.

I never was interested in going with those that invited me (during "lounge") and wouldn't have gone for lunch, either.

I believe they were going to do away with this, but I never found out.

It's already closed campus here... but we have all kinds of choices anyway, pizza, burgers, subs, mexican, and traditional...

when I was in High School we had open campus. There was an incident with seniors (back when I was in 8th grade with the church across the street....I will not get into details about the funeral that was happening during lunch time). That almost closed lunch, but it didn't....as of right now, campus is still open for my brother who just happens to be a senior at Menasha.

Well Ive been out of high school for 24 years now and campuses were technically "closed " then. Nevertheless many of us made that daily illegal trek to our favorite fast food hangout for burgers and fries. I think the school administrators turned a blind eye back then since we were "cool"(yes that word was in use in 1979). there was no racing to and from school and we made sure we were on time for our next class.

Truancy link

Barb Kiefer thinks the open campus policy exacerbates the district's truancy problem. Students who weren't allowed to leave wouldn't be tempted to leave and not come back, she said.

Zadnik said that's one of the things the district will want to study.

Open-campus lunches make it difficult for police officers to handle truants, Arts said.

With multiple lunch hours extending from around 10:30 a.m. to about 1 p.m., it's impossible to know who's absent from class and who's just out for lunch.

"If we did have something like closed campus, we would know who belongs," Arts said.

WHAT?? wether there is an open or closed campus for lunch, the staff should know where the students are supposed to be. That statement shows the irresponsibility of the schools.

Open campus was a great way to open the mind and clear the cobwebs out of my brain. I never saw the problem, but I did attend a rather small school. Larger school systems may have a harder time with the open campuses.

Campuses should and must be closed for all students under the age of 18, as those under the age of 18 are not adults. Once a student reaches the age of 18 (usually in their senior year), then they should be free to leave, as adults have the right to do most anything

i agree about 18 yr olds

In Missouri, 17 is the age at which an offender passes from "juvenile" staus to trial as an adult, or petition the court for "emancipated" status (leaving home, living independently, etc.); 18, of course, for voting and all other citizenship obligations.

It is entirely possible, FI, to graduate high school at 17, but rare (coppertop will, as he won't turn 18 until three 1/2 weeks later).

My school had closed campus lunch, and I didn't see it as a big deal, we could walk outside if we wanted to, and I did when the weather permitted because the lunchroom was PACKED!! That was my only problem, as for school lunches, yep, still gross, but I was in either the Pizza Hut or Sub-sandwich line everyday! I think to take it away from them would be bad, kind of a punishment that most don't deserve! If it was decided to switch to closed campus lunch, they should wait until the next year.

In Jr. High we all used to walk to the little hamburger stand that was right beside the school gym, but was considered off-campus. We loved the chili-cheese burgers. That little burger joint has been there feeding students for over 40 years. Then some idiot decided to close the campus. Put that little joint right out of business.

And FYI... closing the campuses is not about students, it is all about money. They want the students to pay for the school lunches instead of them giving their money to other joints.

streetsoldier wrote:In Missouri, 17 is the age at which an offender passes from "juvenile" staus to trial as an adult, or petition the court for "emancipated" status (leaving home, living independently, etc.); 18, of course, for voting and all other citizenship obligations.

It is entirely possible, FI, to graduate high school at 17, but rare (coppertop will, as he won't turn 18 until three 1/2 weeks later).

Not at all rare to tell you the truth- I graduated at 17 without any special fan fare. No skipped grades or early graduation programs (booooooringly normal) I just happened to be born 26 June- so I turned 18 several weeks after I graduated. I wasn't the only one.

It's all a matter of dates- depending on what age your school system allows students to enter at (Most allow entry at 5-6) and where your birthday falls- lots of kids graduate at 17. Lots of kids graduate at 18 as well (my husband, 6 months older than I am, graduated at 18)


BY THE SAME TOKEN, I disagree that kids 18+ should be given open campus strictly based on age. It's a matter of schooling and not of age IMHO. Much like college is college is college regardless of whether you're a 14 year old prodigy, an 18 year old freshman straight out of high school, or a 40 year old father of 2. Everyone is held to the same rules and regulations- the way it should be. Kids have the ability to drop out of high school before they graduate- that's the only age based notion that should be present. It's an institute of learning- seperate by the grades of the institute but don't add in unnecessary complications.

Also, IMHO it makes for less truancy if students of a grade are kept together. Kids want to be with thier friends. If all of thier friends are 18 and eating off campus- the 17 year olds are going to skip out. If you keep it confined to a grade, you still have kids who have cross-grade friendships- but MOST kids have most friends within thier grade.

I'm big on open lunches though, so that probably taints my reasoning *smiles*

My senior year they installed 'Senior Priviledge' were students could leave campus during their study halls. I had study hall 1st hour and would work from 7am-8am on a daily basis. Menasha didn't install senior priviledge til 3rd quarter. From what my brother is saying is that the principal is trying to take away Bluejay Study Hall (special study hall for honor roll students) because off all the students goofing off and disrespecting the BSH monitor.

Too bad everyone has to get punished for the actions of of a few

I loved getting out for 45 mins during hs lunch. THey only let the jrs and srs do it and i thought that was fair. The only reason they did do it was because the cafeteria was just sooooooooo crowded they couldn't really hold us in anyways. Oh well i hope her proposition doesn't pass