STORM2K

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat ... 12132.html

Couple of points.

1. I have no problem with children cussing. I cuss like a sailor at times. I will not be the hypocrite and tell someone they cannot cuss when I do. There is also no Christian prohibition on cussing... only misusing the Lord's name (which means, no GD or JC inappropriately)

2. Point 1 aside... some in society do not believe in discipline! The child broke the rules and was punished, just like in the good old days (though from point 1, you know I think the rule was utterly idiotic!) The child now learns there are serious consequences for breaking the rules and they get worse when older, no matter how idiotic the rules are (such as what happens if you do not pay your taxes). Let the parents discipline the children and social services need to mind their own business, except when there is real abuse ongoing!

Remember Ralphie on "A Christmas Story", standing there crying with a bar of soap
in his mouth? Yep - I know that feeling. I still remember the taste of that nasty stuff.
Do I feel abused? NO. Are the people who were cursed abused? Verbally, YES.

It does seem that you need to contact a family therapist before you decide on any type
of punishment, now. If I only had a dollar for every time I got my rear whacked, I'd be
a rich woman now.

I've never thought of having one hold a bar of soap in their mouth as abuse. I have
seen it used very effectively, with cleaner language as the end result, and no therapist
needed by the child as a result of it!

Yea that's crazy! At least she's discipling her child unlike half of these parents today who let their children run wild!!!

I've never had to do that to my kid....but when I was 5 at a daycare this lady made me put soap in my mouth for saying a bad word! I'll never forget it! It obviously taught me something back then!

Derek Ortt wrote:1. I have no problem with children cussing. I cuss like a sailor at times. I will not be the hypocrite and tell someone they cannot cuss when I do. There is also no Christian prohibition on cussing... only misusing the Lord's name (which means, no GD or JC inappropriately)

My thoughts exactly.

Here's what I don't get:

You see DOZENS of shows coming on and going off about nannies and parenting when the parents are taken to task for not disciplining their children (and their children have carte blanche over them and the household). The problem is that the punishments that truly teach the child what is right and what is wrong are the ones parents are arrested for. I don't condone child abuse (I REALLY don't), but the line needs to be drawn at what is "lecturing", "punishment", and "abuse" on a legal front.

I remember in King of the Hill, Hank put soap in a co-worker's mouth for being so raunchy.

I don't see how that is abuse. Arkess7 is right, I hate inattentive parents who let their kids run wild without discipline. Where are the parents????????

I thought of Ralphie, too (the Old Man saying, "I told you to use Lifeboy", his Mom having a preference for Palmolive - my Mom liked Palmolive, too, but for the hands only)...

Personally, I like Dial...

LOL

P.S. Seriously, though, the Mom needs to remember what Jesus said about evil - it does not come from the outside in but from the inside out, so perhaps her child needs a spiritual kind of "soap", instead...

Frank

This is not abuse. Spanking is sometimes necessary. Children must learn there are consequences for their actions. Perhaps if parents were allowed to discipline, along with schools to discipline then maybe the prisons would not be so crowded......MGC

One thing I've learned while babysitting a now 11-year-old kid named David, the last time his mom gave him a spanking, one of her neighbors yelled "CHILD ABUSE!!!!!!!!". Next thing you know, he was sent from one foster family to another and his punishments only gotten worse from there.

That's why whenever he's doing something he shouldn't have, I try and keep my cool when "reading him the riot act" on what to and what not to do to avoid further damage on him and especially my own reputation...then I let his mom do the rest when my day of babysitting's done.

TexasStooge wrote:One thing I've learned while babysitting a now 11-year-old kid named David, the last time his mom gave him a spanking, one of her neighbors yelled "CHILD ABUSE!!!!!!!!". Next thing you know, he was sent from one foster family to another and his punishments only gotten worse from there.

That's why whenever he's doing something he shouldn't have, I try and keep my cool when "reading him the riot act" on what to and what not to do to avoid further damage on him and especially my own reputation...then I let his mom do the rest when my day of babysitting's done.

That is so ridiculous. Spanking is not child abuse. Sending a kid to foster home to get more abuse is ABUSE. CPS has a lot of problems and they overlook real abuse.

more info has came out, and I actually have to side with the state this time

seems the mom and the BF made the child actually EAT the soap, not just wash out her mouth

http://news.aol.com/article/florida-cou ... ild/714229

this article may be even more disturbing. This seems appropriate for an Ortt prison camp, not for an 8 year old girl

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.d ... /910160330

the parents failed to seek medical care and were more concerned about themselves. That is where the issue lies

As a child growing up in a strict military household.....I had my mouth washed out with soap. We also endured both "spankings" and "whippings". Keep in mind, this was a very long time ago. As I look back on those years......I would say that some of the "discipline" was borderline abuse.

One good thing came out of all of it......I never repeated what my parents did to me on my daughter.

I went to middle school here in Florida (then called Junior High) and kids were stilll paddled for infractions - one time, someone threw a plaster mold out the art classroom window into the courtyard, and the kid got caught and was paddled (I can still hear it now - ouch)...

But - we sure didn't have the discipline problems that are in schools today - the kids of my time mostly enjoyed going to school and even our teachers, and most of the time gave them the respect they deserved...

Now, I'm not saying that anything more than a paddling is right, because it isn't (Ward Cleaver on Leave it to Beaver often recalled the many times his Dad would give him "the strap"), but I agree that some form of discipline IS necessary, since it teaches a child that with intentional acts of rebellion comes punishment - for the good of the child...

Frank

yes, discipline is ready. Initially, I had no problem with the punishment (though I strongly disagree with the rule of kids not cussing as there is no Christian prohibition on cussing... only misusing the Lord's name)

However, the problem developed when the parents refused to seek immediate treatment and were more concerned with themselves and not dealing with authorities. This is a classic case where it is not the act but the coverup that caused problems

Dionne wrote:As a child growing up in a strict military household.....I had my mouth washed out with soap. We also endured both "spankings" and "whippings". Keep in mind, this was a very long time ago. As I look back on those years......I would say that some of the "discipline" was borderline abuse.

One good thing came out of all of it......I never repeated what my parents did to me on my daughter.

I was spanked as a child, mouth washed out with soap, never "whipped". however they did use humiliation sometimes. As you said, some of what they used was never repeated with my children. Discipline is a necessity with children and imo sometimes it must be physical, BUT IT SHOULD NEVER NEVER BE ABUSIVE IN ANY WAY.

Frank2 wrote:I went to middle school here in Florida (then called Junior High) and kids were stilll paddled for infractions - one time, someone threw a plaster mold out the art classroom window into the courtyard, and the kid got caught and was paddled (I can still hear it now - ouch)...

But - we sure didn't have the discipline problems that are in schools today - the kids of my time mostly enjoyed going to school and even our teachers, and most of the time gave them the respect they deserved...

Now, I'm not saying that anything more than a paddling is right, because it isn't (Ward Cleaver on Leave it to Beaver often recalled the many times his Dad would give him "the strap"), but I agree that some form of discipline IS necessary, since it teaches a child that with intentional acts of rebellion comes punishment - for the good of the child...

Frank

I remember kids getting corporal punishment in elementary school. In middle and high school, they made us fill out forms for parents to fill out to okay corporal punishment, except we had none by than.

I went to a catholic school for kindergarten and there was corporal punishment there

One girl who went to the principle every day was spanked in front of the entire class by the principal. Personally, I think a good spanking about once a week is good for a child (as they usually misbehave at least once during a week as they are growing up)

now, laughing at them after receiving the punishment, like the parents did in this case... another issue entirely. As I said, this is not an Ortt prison camp

Derek Ortt wrote:I went to a catholic school for kindergarten and there was corporal punishment there

One girl who went to the principle every day was spanked in front of the entire class by the principal. Personally, I think a good spanking about once a week is good for a child (as they usually misbehave at least once during a week as they are growing up)
now, laughing at them after receiving the punishment, like the parents did in this case... another issue entirely. As I said, this is not an Ortt prison camp

So you are in favor of spanking to prevent misbehavior rather than as a consequence to misbehavior?

I feel a rant coming on...

I suppose that spanking is one thing that belongs in a parents tool box, but like any tool, if you use it too much, it loses its edge. Use the wrong tool, and you damage the project.

Much much much more important is the example that the parents set. Do you really think that you can beat nonsense out of a kid when the parents are practicing it themselves?

What do you really expect from a kid when the parents, the marriages, and families are disfunctional and the parents are miserable with their life.

You going to beat your kid when he starts smoking? Do you smoke?
You going to beat your kid when he starts driniking? Do you drink?
The argument about legal age is a really weak one. The point is, vices may be enjoyable and legal, but they're not good for you, and they divert money that could be spent on something good for the family.

Parents divorced? Um, bad choices in friends and lovers, poor problem solving skills, impulsiveness, bad judgement, wanting something better, giving up on problems? How do you expect the kids to do better? You get divorced and run to another relationship? Yeah the kids will be fine. You sure? That has got to be the #1 reason for messed up kids that I've seen. Fighting over custody? Turning the kids into an object? What's it doing to the kids?

Lets see, what else ... Parents self centered, selfish, sit in front of the TV all night, obsessed with work, hobbies, their truck, their boat, their own toys? Criticizing the neighbors, criticizing, relatives, criticizing each other. Very destructive.

Or maybe the parents show intolerence, anger, rage, vindictiveness, jealosy, materialism? Do you LISTEN or are you too quick to jump to a conclusion, to offer a quick solution, give them an irrelevant answer, tell them that their problems are not important?

Do the parents look for the good in each other or do they focus on the bad? Do the parents show respect for each other and act like they enjoy being with each other? Do they act like their kids are important? Are they concerned about the little problems that seem so big to their kids?

From what I've seen personally, most of the parents who most loudly defend spanking are the ones who have something lacking in themselves. It should be done reluctantly not routinely.

Bad kids aren't born, they're made. Parents have the most influence on their kids for good or bad.

Ok. its over. I'm not going to go back and edit for grammer.

Me personally, I've done many of the above. I guess I'm normal and my kids are normal. You just have to realize that we all have defects. If you can forgive yourself then you can forgive your children if they're not perfect either. Facing messed up situations with a positive attitude is about the best you can do sometimes. That goes for our kids too.

Derek Ortt wrote:I went to a catholic school for kindergarten and there was corporal punishment there

One girl who went to the principle every day was spanked in front of the entire class by the principal. Personally, I think a good spanking about once a week is good for a child (as they usually misbehave at least once during a week as they are growing up)

now, laughing at them after receiving the punishment, like the parents did in this case... another issue entirely. As I said, this is not an Ortt prison camp

What did this girl do to get sent to the principal's office everyday?