same sex marriage passed in Mass...what's next?
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GalvestonDuck
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ColdFront77
mf_dolphin wrote:From my standpoint it also brings legitimacy to the relationship. I personally oppose same sex marriages. I believe that the age old definition is that of a special relationship between a man and a woman. No court is going to change that in my mind. The institution of marriage is founded in the Bible and a court can't change that.
On the other hand, I do see the validity of the arguement that same sex couples should be able to legally bond if they so desire. If that carries comparable benefits under the law as a marriage then so be it.
Makes sense to me.
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azsnowman
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mf_dolphin wrote:Why does judging people come into this? The implication is that I am judging them for wanting same sex marriages. That couldn't be further from the truth. I have several dear friends who are in loving and happy same sex relations. I just don't believe that their union should be called a marriage. It just so happens that this is a majority view in this country.
I couldn't have said it BETTER Marshall.....my feelings EXACTLY
I don't CARE nor do I JUDGE someone for being a homosexual, just don't call a same sex UNION a marriage....IMHO and mind you, this IS JUST my opinion, a marriage is between a man and women!
Dennis
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Skywatch_NC
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azsnowman wrote:mf_dolphin wrote:Why does judging people come into this? The implication is that I am judging them for wanting same sex marriages. That couldn't be further from the truth. I have several dear friends who are in loving and happy same sex relations. I just don't believe that their union should be called a marriage. It just so happens that this is a majority view in this country.
I couldn't have said it BETTER Marshall.....my feelings EXACTLY
Dennis
AMEN Dennis!
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GalvestonDuck
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Skywatch_NC
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GalvestonDuck
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Skywatch_NC
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Miss Mary
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opera ghost
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Okie I'm a supporter of gay marriages- for the simple reason that two consenting adults should be able to have at the VERY least a legal union.
My husband asked me back before we got engaged: "What do we really have to gain by getting married? We're not overly religious, we're already living together and people accept us wherever we go. Why get married?"
I didn't have an immediate answer. I'm NOT very religious- I believe in god, I think the bible is a wonderful thing- men inspired by god to write what they felt was true- and I treat it like I treat any philosophical book. It's a good guidebook. It's got a lot of really great suggestions and ideas and gives guidance for living a happy, more peaceful life with the guidance of moral principals from a diety- MY diety. MY god. I don't regard it as the exact words of God- I was written by men. Men are falliable creatures. Which does NOT lessen my adherance to the principals or to my practive of christianity
(Now that I've got THAT out of the way) I didn't see anything really wrong with what we were doing- but I still wanted a marriage.
Until I could explain why I wanted it- Alan wasn't so sure that he wanted to enter into a marriage with me. We're committed to a marriage for life- and it's important to know why you're doing anything that you commit to for life.... whether it's having children, marrying, or deciding to follow a certain religion.
I wanted the legal side of marriage almost as much as I wanted the religious blessing of the marriage. I am his life partner- if he were admitted to the hospital- I'm his next of kin. Same sex couples and those without a legal union don't HAVE that. I can tell the doctors what he would have wanted and I can speak for him- and he will speak for me! (It's important to pick someone you trust
) When I die- my physical possesions go to him. (unless I write a will to change that). There are quite a number of legal benefits of a legal union- that's why they are sought! You can have a church marriage without a legal union. It's rare- but I've known of widow/widowers in old age relationships where if they marry they cannot continue to recieve a necessary pension from thier former spouse's estate. One of my mom's best friend's dad had a marriage like that. All church- no state.
I beleive that any two consenting adults should have the right to a legal union. Comparing gay's to pedifiles is apples and oranges. Pedofiles don't have a consenting adult partner!
As far as "marriage" goes. I think there are a lot of people who want a lot of different things and have a lot of different deffinitons of marriage. What one person calls marriage- another person may call a civil union... or the blessings of God.
I wanted a "marriage" because I wanted the blessings of my God on the partnership I selected. I also wanted a "marriage" to legally bind us so that we had rights and responsibilities to eachother.
Sam sex partnerships that are waiting for a religious blessing may have to wait many more years. Government can't legislate religion (and shouldn't be able to). Someday I suspect it won't be unhead of for a same sex union to recieve the same SORT of religious blessing that a traditional marriage recieves- although it's unlikely to happen in conservative or orthodox christian churches...
It may take years of legal same sex unions before the less conservative or orthodox of religious communities will fully embrace same sex "marriage". Orthodox and conservative churches probably never will. Then again- I cannot marry an orthodox Jew in an orthodox ceremony anyways... so it's no great loss to not be able to marry if you don't follow the religion.
My husband asked me back before we got engaged: "What do we really have to gain by getting married? We're not overly religious, we're already living together and people accept us wherever we go. Why get married?"
I didn't have an immediate answer. I'm NOT very religious- I believe in god, I think the bible is a wonderful thing- men inspired by god to write what they felt was true- and I treat it like I treat any philosophical book. It's a good guidebook. It's got a lot of really great suggestions and ideas and gives guidance for living a happy, more peaceful life with the guidance of moral principals from a diety- MY diety. MY god. I don't regard it as the exact words of God- I was written by men. Men are falliable creatures. Which does NOT lessen my adherance to the principals or to my practive of christianity
(Now that I've got THAT out of the way) I didn't see anything really wrong with what we were doing- but I still wanted a marriage.
Until I could explain why I wanted it- Alan wasn't so sure that he wanted to enter into a marriage with me. We're committed to a marriage for life- and it's important to know why you're doing anything that you commit to for life.... whether it's having children, marrying, or deciding to follow a certain religion.
I wanted the legal side of marriage almost as much as I wanted the religious blessing of the marriage. I am his life partner- if he were admitted to the hospital- I'm his next of kin. Same sex couples and those without a legal union don't HAVE that. I can tell the doctors what he would have wanted and I can speak for him- and he will speak for me! (It's important to pick someone you trust
) When I die- my physical possesions go to him. (unless I write a will to change that). There are quite a number of legal benefits of a legal union- that's why they are sought! You can have a church marriage without a legal union. It's rare- but I've known of widow/widowers in old age relationships where if they marry they cannot continue to recieve a necessary pension from thier former spouse's estate. One of my mom's best friend's dad had a marriage like that. All church- no state.
I beleive that any two consenting adults should have the right to a legal union. Comparing gay's to pedifiles is apples and oranges. Pedofiles don't have a consenting adult partner!
As far as "marriage" goes. I think there are a lot of people who want a lot of different things and have a lot of different deffinitons of marriage. What one person calls marriage- another person may call a civil union... or the blessings of God.
I wanted a "marriage" because I wanted the blessings of my God on the partnership I selected. I also wanted a "marriage" to legally bind us so that we had rights and responsibilities to eachother.
Sam sex partnerships that are waiting for a religious blessing may have to wait many more years. Government can't legislate religion (and shouldn't be able to). Someday I suspect it won't be unhead of for a same sex union to recieve the same SORT of religious blessing that a traditional marriage recieves- although it's unlikely to happen in conservative or orthodox christian churches...
It may take years of legal same sex unions before the less conservative or orthodox of religious communities will fully embrace same sex "marriage". Orthodox and conservative churches probably never will. Then again- I cannot marry an orthodox Jew in an orthodox ceremony anyways... so it's no great loss to not be able to marry if you don't follow the religion.
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GalvestonDuck
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Did you guys know that a man who has surgery to become a woman and legally changes all identification to make him a woman can then marry a man legally? That's been the case for years because it is a man and a "woman" getting married.
You hardly ever hear anyone complain or take issue with it. But I do. A man who CHOOSES to become a woman IS making a choice. Being a transsexual is a choice; it has nothing to do with being "born that way". And no one calls that a sin. No one tells them they can't get married. So, what gives? I can't marry the woman I love because I choose to remain who I am and how God created me???
You hardly ever hear anyone complain or take issue with it. But I do. A man who CHOOSES to become a woman IS making a choice. Being a transsexual is a choice; it has nothing to do with being "born that way". And no one calls that a sin. No one tells them they can't get married. So, what gives? I can't marry the woman I love because I choose to remain who I am and how God created me???
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Stephanie
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GalvestonDuck wrote:Did you guys know that a man who has surgery to become a woman and legally changes all identification to make him a woman can then marry a man legally? That's been the case for years because it is a man and a "woman" getting married.
You hardly ever hear anyone complain or take issue with it. But I do. A man who CHOOSES to become a woman IS making a choice. Being a transsexual is a choice; it has nothing to do with being "born that way". And no one calls that a sin. No one tells them they can't get married. So, what gives? I can't marry the woman I love because I choose to remain who I am and how God created me???
Point well taken.
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mf_dolphin
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Duck I would take exception to a couple of your points:-) A lot of people do view this as a sin and many churches won't allow transsexual's to be married. I guess if you lie in order to get married in a church and receive a spiritual blessing that of what value is the blessing? There is the enevitable conflict between legal and moral definitions.
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11/19/03
Picayune Church Members Break Away
The decision to allow an openly gay priest to become a bishop continues to make waves in Episcopal Churches across the nation and here at home. St. Paul's in Picayune is the latest to feel the effects. Several members, who say the church has become far to liberal, broke away from St. Paul's and started their own church.
Rosalie Smith showed off her new church home to her grandson Tuesday morning. She was a member of St. Paul's for more than 21 years. In fact, she helped organize the church's construction.
"I have always gone to the Episcopal Church and yet the Episcopal Church went into such a liberal side that I could no longer go along with that. I have to go with God's words and not what man's leadership would lead me into," Smith said.
Smith and about 20 others left St. Paul's and started St. Barnabas Anglican Church not to far away from St. Paul's. One of the main reasons was the Episcopal Church's stance on elevating an openly gay New Hampshire priest to Bishop this summer.
"We felt that confirmed what we already knew in our hearts. That the traditions of the Church were being watered down to focus on what is accepted as politically correct, rather than what is accepted as scriptural and morally correct," Former St. Paul's Member Suzy McDonald said.
"The church may change its outward shade, but the church of Jesus Christ will not go under" Father Bronson Bryant said.
Bryant is the interim priest at St. Paul's.
"They think our church has interpreted scripture wrongly and is not standing in a good place now, and so they've left. And I can only say, you have to go where your conscious leads you."
Ironically, the new St. Barnabas congregation will meet in Picayune's first Episcopal Church, which was constructed in 1928.
"This church makes a statement in this community. It's a solid building, it has withstood hurricanes. We've taken the mortar off the walls, we're taking the paint out of the outside so that it's back down to the church it was meant to be, and that's a statement. We're standing on the traditions that were valid then, that are still valid today," Smith said.
The renovation work is continuing at St. Barnabas while church members hold services there. They started out with just seven members, and have already grown to 28. Last Sunday, 50 people attended services.
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Picayune Church Members Break Away
The decision to allow an openly gay priest to become a bishop continues to make waves in Episcopal Churches across the nation and here at home. St. Paul's in Picayune is the latest to feel the effects. Several members, who say the church has become far to liberal, broke away from St. Paul's and started their own church.
Rosalie Smith showed off her new church home to her grandson Tuesday morning. She was a member of St. Paul's for more than 21 years. In fact, she helped organize the church's construction.
"I have always gone to the Episcopal Church and yet the Episcopal Church went into such a liberal side that I could no longer go along with that. I have to go with God's words and not what man's leadership would lead me into," Smith said.
Smith and about 20 others left St. Paul's and started St. Barnabas Anglican Church not to far away from St. Paul's. One of the main reasons was the Episcopal Church's stance on elevating an openly gay New Hampshire priest to Bishop this summer.
"We felt that confirmed what we already knew in our hearts. That the traditions of the Church were being watered down to focus on what is accepted as politically correct, rather than what is accepted as scriptural and morally correct," Former St. Paul's Member Suzy McDonald said.
"The church may change its outward shade, but the church of Jesus Christ will not go under" Father Bronson Bryant said.
Bryant is the interim priest at St. Paul's.
"They think our church has interpreted scripture wrongly and is not standing in a good place now, and so they've left. And I can only say, you have to go where your conscious leads you."
Ironically, the new St. Barnabas congregation will meet in Picayune's first Episcopal Church, which was constructed in 1928.
"This church makes a statement in this community. It's a solid building, it has withstood hurricanes. We've taken the mortar off the walls, we're taking the paint out of the outside so that it's back down to the church it was meant to be, and that's a statement. We're standing on the traditions that were valid then, that are still valid today," Smith said.
The renovation work is continuing at St. Barnabas while church members hold services there. They started out with just seven members, and have already grown to 28. Last Sunday, 50 people attended services.
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GalvestonDuck
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mf_dolphin wrote:Duck I would take exception to a couple of your points:-) A lot of people do view this as a sin and many churches won't allow transsexual's to be married. I guess if you lie in order to get married in a church and receive a spiritual blessing that of what value is the blessing? There is the enevitable conflict between legal and moral definitions.
Thank you!
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Rainband
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mf_dolphin
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If you don't like the law Johnathan...work to change it! You have plenty of support here for changing the law for a same sex union. Including me
The dividing line seems to be when the courts try to redefine what is a religous based institution. Maybe the "legal" license should be renamed for everyone!
You have plenty of support here for changing the law for a same sex union. Including me
The dividing line seems to be when the courts try to redefine what is a religous based institution. Maybe the "legal" license should be renamed for everyone!
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