STORM2K

Where can I find very detailed information on tropical waves and tropical cyclone formation? I can't seem to find it anywhere and I remember long ago reading a few of these very in depth explanations. It's the type of stuff you would expect from a collage/university tropical class for example, maybe without the math . I searched on the forums, google, etc. and couldn't find some large and complex writings. This includes how tropical waves come into existence off Africa but more "in depth". They are very scientific. Any information or links that have these would be awesome. Thanks.

Cyclenall wrote:Where can I find very detailed information on tropical waves and tropical cyclone formation? I can't seem to find it anywhere and I remember long ago reading a few of these very in depth explanations. It's the type of stuff you would expect from a collage/university tropical class for example, maybe without the math . I searched on the forums, google, etc. and couldn't find some large and complex writings. This includes how tropical waves come into existence off Africa but more "in depth". They are very scientific. Any information or links that have these would be awesome. Thanks.

Hi Cyclenall,
Try this project I wrote for Penn State last year. I didn't include math in it, although I have a B.A. in math, because it's not meant to be at that level. But I think (hope?!) that it is at a fairly high level and explains the most important concepts that we should all know and remember if we want to follow these storms. Let me know what you think. I always like feedback...

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/p/z/pzl112/Meteo%20241/PROJECT_3%20HURRICANE%20ISABEL%20PAGE%202%20EASTERLY%20WAVE.htm

Phil

philnyc wrote:

Cyclenall wrote:Where can I find very detailed information on tropical waves and tropical cyclone formation? I can't seem to find it anywhere and I remember long ago reading a few of these very in depth explanations. It's the type of stuff you would expect from a collage/university tropical class for example, maybe without the math . I searched on the forums, google, etc. and couldn't find some large and complex writings. This includes how tropical waves come into existence off Africa but more "in depth". They are very scientific. Any information or links that have these would be awesome. Thanks.

Hi Cyclenall,
Try this project I wrote for Penn State last year. I didn't include math in it, although I have a B.A. in math, because it's not meant to be at that level. But I think (hope?!) that it is at a fairly high level and explains the most important concepts that we should all know and remember if we want to follow these storms. Let me know what you think. I always like feedback...

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/p/z/pzl112/Meteo%20241/PROJECT_3%20HURRICANE%20ISABEL%20PAGE%202%20EASTERLY%20WAVE.htm

Phil

Thank you! Well, it's on a certain TC (Isabel) and explains, gives information, and describes tropical waves (pg.2). It looks long (that's good) so I don't know how in depth the science is bit based off that first page of reading (pg.2), It's not the most complex and doesn't explain things to the next level. It had some items that I haven't seen before like the MLAEJ and such which is great. This type of stuff is definitely in the right direction though. Overall report based on skimming it was well done.

Cyclenall wrote:

philnyc wrote:

Cyclenall wrote:Where can I find very detailed information on tropical waves and tropical cyclone formation? I can't seem to find it anywhere and I remember long ago reading a few of these very in depth explanations. It's the type of stuff you would expect from a collage/university tropical class for example, maybe without the math . I searched on the forums, google, etc. and couldn't find some large and complex writings. This includes how tropical waves come into existence off Africa but more "in depth". They are very scientific. Any information or links that have these would be awesome. Thanks.

Hi Cyclenall,
Try this project I wrote for Penn State last year. I didn't include math in it, although I have a B.A. in math, because it's not meant to be at that level. But I think (hope?!) that it is at a fairly high level and explains the most important concepts that we should all know and remember if we want to follow these storms. Let me know what you think. I always like feedback...

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/p/z/pzl112/Meteo%20241/PROJECT_3%20HURRICANE%20ISABEL%20PAGE%202%20EASTERLY%20WAVE.htm

Phil

Thank you! Well, it's on a certain TC (Isabel) and explains, gives information, and describes tropical waves (pg.2). It looks long (that's good) so I don't know how in depth the science is bit based off that first page of reading (pg.2), It's not the most complex and doesn't explain things to the next level. It had some items that I haven't seen before like the MLAEJ and such which is great. This type of stuff is definitely in the right direction though. Overall report based on skimming it was well done.

Thanks. As far as "doesn't explain things to the next level" what do you mean by the next level? Are you talking math and physics? I know of plenty of links, but am not sure what level you want to go to. If you want to take it to the next level, such as what happens on the cyclonic shear side of the MLAEJ that causes easterly waves to form, and you understand the physics and math equations for cyclonic shear, they won't be any different for that situation than then they would be for the cyclonic shear equations used to analyze cyclone formation in the Indian Ocean or anywhere else in the world. The additional variables would be the topography or lack of it, how strong the local shear and vorticity are, etc. Just let me know. I'll be glad to help. Cheers!

You mean some scientific papers? Try the NHC site (like the SPC forecasters, the NHC forecasters tend to have several papers under their belt that they have published). Also try Google Scholar. There should be many papers explaining in depth the dynamics of TC formation.

wxmann_91 wrote:You mean some scientific papers? Try the NHC site (like the SPC forecasters, the NHC forecasters tend to have several papers under their belt that they have published). Also try Google Scholar. There should be many papers explaining in depth the dynamics of TC formation.

As wxmann_91 says, if you want scientific papers, that's where to go. There really isn't anything in between what I wrote about the general development of African easterly waves into storms or hurricanes and the hard physics and math that you get from scientific papers.

philnyc wrote:Thanks. As far as "doesn't explain things to the next level" what do you mean by the next level? Are you talking math and physics? I know of plenty of links, but am not sure what level you want to go to. If you want to take it to the next level, such as what happens on the cyclonic shear side of the MLAEJ that causes easterly waves to form, and you understand the physics and math equations for cyclonic shear, they won't be any different for that situation than then they would be for the cyclonic shear equations used to analyze cyclone formation in the Indian Ocean or anywhere else in the world. The additional variables would be the topography or lack of it, how strong the local shear and vorticity are, etc. Just let me know. I'll be glad to help. Cheers!

I don't quite understand how to describe what I was searching for. What I mean by the next level is more then just the MLAEJ and the properties of that. It's just one "piece" of the puzzle, and I want the full puzzle. You can post links and items that have math and physics in it, that would be fine. An example of a site or area of a wealth of information that would have for instance, a section explaining wave axis (how to find it, what it is, who discovered it, etc.), and then another section explaining what a LLC exactly is, etc. I know, this is confusing.

wxmann_91 wrote:You mean some scientific papers? Try the NHC site (like the SPC forecasters, the NHC forecasters tend to have several papers under their belt that they have published). Also try Google Scholar. There should be many papers explaining in depth the dynamics of TC formation.

Your kinda getting colder from the trail on what I was looking for. I'll try Google Scholar and the NHC site, thank you for the tips on that. Remember in another thread when you posted Haby Hints and other links? Do you have some links that are vaguely similar to those pertaining to what I'm looking for?

As wxmann_91 says, if you want scientific papers, that's where to go. There really isn't anything in between what I wrote about the general development of African easterly waves into storms or hurricanes and the hard physics and math that you get from scientific papers.

Except the math . It may not be the complexity level that your paper had that I wasn't looking for, but maybe it's something else. It didn't touch on everything, and there is a huge amount of information on this.

We're not far off from what I was searching for. Thanks for the replies.

Hi,
From what you're telling me I think what you want is an explanation that goes into a fair amount of complexity but assumes no formal training in meteorology. My paper on Isabel assumes that you already know how troughs and lows form from shear and shear vorticity. If you're not familiar with a wave axis or LLC (Low Level Center) then you need to go a different route. I looked at the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_cyclogenesis

and think it's helpful. They're usually quite accurate. Of course there's a high chance you did wikipedia already, so then I would try this from the University of Colorado; it is very solid and reliable:
http://www.meted.ucar.edu/topics_convective.php

Try the conceptual model of tropical waves first (middle of page). It should really help.

One warning: I personally feel you should stay away from Haby's hints. Though he seems well-intentioned, I've seen some "bad science" in there, and you could pick up wrong concepts of how the atmosphere works.

Phil

philnyc wrote:Hi,
From what you're telling me I think what you want is an explanation that goes into a fair amount of complexity but assumes no formal training in meteorology. My paper on Isabel assumes that you already know how troughs and lows form from shear and shear vorticity. If you're not familiar with a wave axis or LLC (Low Level Center) then you need to go a different route. I looked at the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_cyclogenesis

and think it's helpful. They're usually quite accurate. Of course there's a high chance you did wikipedia already, so then I would try this from the University of Colorado; it is very solid and reliable:
http://www.meted.ucar.edu/topics_convective.php

Try the conceptual model of tropical waves first (middle of page). It should really help.

Yeah, I saw the Wiki article already but it appears it's different from last time I saw it. I will check that out. The Colorado link would be good, only you have to register to view the content.

philnyc wrote:One warning: I personally feel you should stay away from Haby's hints. Though he seems well-intentioned, I've seen some "bad science" in there, and you could pick up wrong concepts of how the atmosphere works.

Phil

I didn't notice anything from Haby hints that was odd. I only looked at it once and goes into all meteorology.

Cyclenall wrote:

philnyc wrote:Hi,
From what you're telling me I think what you want is an explanation that goes into a fair amount of complexity but assumes no formal training in meteorology. My paper on Isabel assumes that you already know how troughs and lows form from shear and shear vorticity. If you're not familiar with a wave axis or LLC (Low Level Center) then you need to go a different route. I looked at the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_cyclogenesis

and think it's helpful. They're usually quite accurate. Of course there's a high chance you did wikipedia already, so then I would try this from the University of Colorado; it is very solid and reliable:
http://www.meted.ucar.edu/topics_convective.php

Try the conceptual model of tropical waves first (middle of page). It should really help.

Yeah, I saw the Wiki article already but it appears it's different from last time I saw it. I will check that out. The Colorado link would be good, only you have to register to view the content.

philnyc wrote:One warning: I personally feel you should stay away from Haby's hints. Though he seems well-intentioned, I've seen some "bad science" in there, and you could pick up wrong concepts of how the atmosphere works.

Phil

I didn't notice anything from Haby hints that was odd. I only looked at it once and goes into all meteorology.

Go ahead and register at COLO state. It doesn't cost anything. You will be really happy at what you learn there. And believe me, Haby's hints is for amateurs; you will get bad advice there... they think that clouds act as blankets at night, yeggghhh....

philnyc wrote:Go ahead and register at COLO state. It doesn't cost anything. You will be really happy at what you learn there. And believe me, Haby's hints is for amateurs; you will get bad advice there... they think that clouds act as blankets at night, yeggghhh....

Ok. It was a meteorologist who wrote Haby Hints though I think.

Here is a quick question, what causes the Jet Stream to exist?

Cyclenall wrote:

philnyc wrote:Go ahead and register at COLO state. It doesn't cost anything. You will be really happy at what you learn there. And believe me, Haby's hints is for amateurs; you will get bad advice there... they think that clouds act as blankets at night, yeggghhh....

Ok. It was a meteorologist who wrote Haby Hints though I think.

Here is a quick question, what causes the Jet Stream to exist?

Hey there,
Yes I know he's a meterologist, but some are not as good as others. As for the jet stream:

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_causes_the_jet_stream.htm