MAYOR NAGIN RADIO PHONE CALL

[angler1986]

very emotional... lots of anger

also, a decent amount of profanity.. download at your own discretion

http://s49.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=38BB ... E88Q0D95K8

also, it is 13 minutes long.. so its a pretty big file

[Josephine96]

I heard this on CNN. That man is mad.! Personally.. I think he has every right to be mad as well..

He's frustrated. He's probably heartbroken over what has happened, and he wants help for his people..

[angler1986]

I heard this on CNN. That man is mad.! Personally.. I think he has every right to be mad as well..

He's frustrated. He's probably heartbroken over what has happened, and he wants help for his people..

i agree wholeheartedly.

he had some bad words for bush.

and i can't say i disagree with what he said.

[Josephine96]

I have to say.. I'd agree with you Angler.. His words were good 1's and hopefully Bush is listening.

The government needs to wake up and realize that 1000s of people are already dead and may still die.

This is the worst disaster in the history of our great land

[cycloneye]

I heard him at CNN as John said and understand his frustations he has with the federal authorities and also state ones.

[angler1986]

I heard him at CNN as John said and understand his frustations he has with the federal authorities and also state ones.

ah. we still don't have cable here so i haven't been able to watch cnn .. its an amazing clip, though.

i recommend everyone download and listen unless you've heard it on CNN

[Josephine96]

Words can be powerful ya know

[angler1986]

I have to say.. I'd agree with you Angler.. His words were good 1's and hopefully Bush is listening.

The government needs to wake up and realize that 1000s of people are already dead and may still die.

This is the worst disaster in the history of our great land

exactly.

i realize that marshall law can't be declared until blanco asks for it.. but man.. more people are dying every hour this is delayed and i say the military should be called in ASAP regardless of who asks for it.

the only people that would feel their rights have been violated are the armed looters who would wind up dead, anyway.

it needs to be done, NOW.

[vacanechaser]

I agree with a lot of what is being said here.. However, had the sorry sack started getting the people out sooner, making better preparetions for this in advance, it may not have come to this... For him to continue to say that he could not order the evacuations do to some process he had to clear, when Max, and the President were calling him on Saturday and telling him to start the evacs, and he said he could not do it, thats horse crap and the bulk of this needs to be thrown at his and the Govenors feet...

This is part of the reason that the Hurricane Conference is held there every other year as of late... All the press, right there in the city, talked about this exact situation, every year, and the plan they had in place looks to be B.S. ... So don't put all the blame on the FEDS... Yes I know they move slow, and it sux to watch this... Believe me, I know how slow they are after Isabel.... It s the same thing every time... Thats why the local area governments need to have better plans in place until the FEDS can get in... Thats why the conference is held... And apparently, some folks were not listening or paying attention...


Jesse V. Bass III
http://www.vastormphoto.com

[VonBek_wx]

Nagin may be angry for good reason, but he is as culpable as anyone for the poor planning and response of the city to this disaster. The Governor is to blame for alot, IMHO, for the lack of leadership. It is up to the States to take care of their own and Louisiana has shown how lacking they are.

[kevin]

Breaking News!

cnn.com

"The results [of rescue operations] are not acceptable." -President Bush


<<< YES!

[schmita]

Nagin may be angry for good reason, but he is as culpable as anyone for the poor planning and response of the city to this disaster. The Governor is to blame for alot, IMHO, for the lack of leadership. It is up to the States to take care of their own and Louisiana has shown how lacking they are.

I agree.
From the New York Times:
The Pentagon is sending thousands of active-duty sailors and soldiers, including a fully staffed aircraft carrier, a hospital ship and some 3,000 Army troops for security and crowd control (even though federal law bars regular Army forces from domestic law enforcement, normally the province of the National Guard).

[Air Force Met]

Nagin may be angry for good reason, but he is as culpable as anyone for the poor planning and response of the city to this disaster. The Governor is to blame for alot, IMHO, for the lack of leadership. It is up to the States to take care of their own and Louisiana has shown how lacking they are.

Exactly. And frankly (flame me if you will)...but I am getting SICK and tired of listening to all you arm chair qb's he really have NO CLUE what you are talking about. Sorry to rant here...and I know those of you who know me (and not the large amount of new posters who have joined over the last week or so) know I don't do this...but frankly...I am getting very tired of this....because all of you QB's want the president to do this...he hasn't done that need to close your mouths because you have NO CLUE what you are talking about.

For those who know me...you know I know what I am talking about. For those who don't...here is WHY I know what I am talking about. I am not just an Air Force Met. I am the Chief of Weather Ops for the 5th US Army...and have been working scenarios for 5th Amry since 1988. We had an exercise last year on this...a cat 5 hitting NOLA. The Federal Gov't knows what to do...HOWEVER...and here is what you are-chair/Monday morning QB's need to understand...get it through your thick heads....

In order for flows of supplies to work...and be pre-staged...the GOVERNOR and the MAYOR MUST be actively invovled and use the correct language...according to that states constitution...that ALLOW the federal Gov't and other state's guard units to get involved. Why? There is a little thing called the constitution and the 10th Ammendment...and there is also Posse Comitatus. Can that be understood by some of you?

In order to get around Posse Comitatus and the constitution, the governor of LA MUST invite and delegate. It is what she needed to do and she did not. The MAYOR...God bless his pee picking heart...failed the city by not getting the people out. Period. Now he's mad? He needs to point fingers at himself and his "team" of emergeny management officials. The NOLA police dept is in chaos and that is the Fed. gov't's fault?

So...I am sorry to rant...and if you flame...I could care less because I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT...I work the spin up to these disasters...the exercises for these disasters (and WMD attacks) and I know the AMOUNT of logistics it takes. We are talking about a disaster of epic proportions here...and there is NO PLAN for that...none. We have exercises for this stuff every year. The action MUST BE INITIATED at the state level. A 3 star general...or even the president...cannot legally just step in and take charge. It is against the law...a law that the president...the general...and myself swore an OATH to defend. The governor of the state of LA is to blame for her lack of a spine and her leadership...which has been NONE. She is irrelevant. In ALL our exercises and plans (weather for MSCA [Military Support for Civilian Authorities] or WMD) the governor is the intial call maker. She or He must make the initial call...according to the laws of the state...and turn it over to the Feds...according to all the laws. BY all accounts...that came 48 hours too late.

The mayor and the OEM folks are to blame for not getting the folks out in the first place and delaying evacuations. And finally...want to blame someone? Blame the people who stayed willingly. If they had left as they were told (you could walk out in the two days prior to Katrina if you had no ride...which the City should have coordinated a LOT better)...then this crisis would NOT be happening. Right? If the people had been evacuated by the state and local government...and in many cases had not REFUSED evacuation...this would not be happening...and that is a FACT.

Sorry to rant...but this is my job...and many of you do not have any clue what you are talking about...just what you think should happen...and that...unfortunately...is an opinion based on ignorance of how all this really wroks.

Flame away.

[x-y-no]

In order to get around Posse Comitatus and the constitution, the governor of LA MUST invite and delegate. It is what she needed to do and she did not. The MAYOR...God bless his pee picking heart...failed the city by not getting the people out. Period. Now he's mad? He needs to point fingers at himself and his "team" of emergeny management officials. The NOLA police dept is in chaos and that is the Fed. gov't's fault?

I think there are a lot of things we may find after the fact might have been done better at every level, but I think this particular point gets to the heart of the matter.

I was shocked that mandatory evacuations weren't ordered by early Saturday afternoon at the very latest, and looking at the Mayor's statements on TV told me he had no clue what he was really facing.

I feel the Mayor's pain, but he needs to take a long hard look at himself before he starts blaming others.

EDIT: You're completely right about the Governor too. The appropriate words for her performance in this crisis are not postable on this site.

[lordbryan2]

I'll tell you what I do have a clue about.

This country has the greatest military and economy on the planet. We can have the 500 buses Nagin is requesting there in a matter of a day if we try. We could have mustered the resources to get everyone out of that city before 5 DAYS after this event.

I understand the Posse Comitatus issue that you bring up, but realistically, this is a national disaster of epic proportions - I have no doubt whatsoever that the mayor is requesting the help. The governor would surely ask for the help also. If it is a matter of educating the governor and mayor into how to request this properly, this is the last thing that should be a stopping block in saving even one life. I just have the most difficult time believing that this is the stopping block.

No flame at all, but just my honest view.

[Air Force Met]

I'll tell you what I do have a clue about.

This country has the greatest military and economy on the planet. We can have the 500 buses Nagin is requesting there in a matter of a day if we try. We could have mustered the resources to get everyone out of that city before 5 DAYS after this event.

All of this would be a non-issue had they evacuated. The POTUS declared an emergency 24 hours before it happened. The state's initial request was 2000 of their own guard. They ignored the PLEADING of the director of the NHC to get out now...they waited. On Friday they said no need to leave.

I've done this for 18 years. I've worked for the 5th Army 3 star (which is the counterpart of the 1st Army 3 star) for all that time. We have done this before. We did it in 1989...1992...1994...you name it. We've exercised it. And I am telling you if 1) the local and state government had acted as they were trained (yes...they were trained to act according to our exercises...because "technically" New Orleans falls in the 5th Army Juro...but because of the damage in MS and AL...1st Army is taking lead) and evacuated and called up and made the proper declarations...then this would not be happening...and 2) If the hard heads in NOLA had not stayed (many willingly) when they were finally ordered to be evacuated...then this would not be happening to the extent it is.

That is a fact.

[lordbryan2]

You're right - the most depressing thing about this is that it could have been a non-issue from the perspective of loss of life.

There was definitely a breakdown somewhere, but it likely does lie at many different levels. Individual decisions not to leave, pre-disaster planning on a local, state, and fed level, and post-disaster response on all of these levels. I, like many, am just so frustrated seeing these people going through what they are. I think people who are questioning the response are just doing what is natural and questioning why it had to be this way (which unfortunately inevitibly leads to pointing fingers).

Thanks for some additinal insight into this Air Force Met.

[Persepone]

Not a flame. I've a friend who used to be a state coordinator for FEMA Disaster Response. She confirms what Air Force Met says about the responsibility/chain of command for the Mayor to ask for help, for the Governor to ask for help--in specific language and following certain specific procedures--before the government can step in and offer it.

Having said that, it is pretty obvious that neither the Mayor nor the Governor or their support staff knew/know how to do this--and what I keep hearing is that they are pleading for help but not using the specific words or specific procedures that, in many cases, would result in the help.

Those of us in other areas of the US, from our safe locations, are simply appalled at the human tragedy that is unfolding in the Gulf Coast States and especially in New Orleans. While people wrangle over who has the authority to do what, people have been without food and water for days. The hospital batteries are exhausted and people on life support systems are dying. We were told two days ago that the hospitals had been evacuated. Now it seems they were not. The premature babies are still in some of those hospitals. The people on ventiltors were not evacuated. And so forth and so on. Apparently as of Friday morning, Charity Hospital is full to overflowing--no water or food drops to them either! No drop of extra batteries to keep people alive until they can be evacuated...

I think we are all disgusted by the attitude that stuff can't happen until the right words are said, the right forms filled out, the right request made by the right person, etc. This is NOT how we think it should work. Yes, I do understand the checks and balances of the constitution, issues of states rights, and other intricacies are endangered by breaches--but I'm sure that others have the same emotional reaction--which is that DAMMIT--DROP SOME FOOD AND WATER TO THOSE PEOPLE SO THEY CAN HOLD OUT LONG ENOUGH TO BE EVACUATED!

And it looks as though that is finally beginning. But I do think that the question of why this could not have started earlier is a very real one.

While evacuation is the goal, if someone had air dropped water (and food--even chocolate bars or something) from the beginning to the people at the Convention Center and the Superdome I-10 and the hospitals, etc. then you would not have had such large numbers of people who were so angry and so desperate! I think the situation would not have deteriorated so badly and so quickly.

Yes, there was going to be lawlessness--as some New Oleans police official stated, there is that percentage that the police would have to do battle with--they've been battling that small percentage for years. But if they had only to deal with that, and had had a little support, and they had not had angry mobs of people who normally would be peaceful and law abiding except that they were driven to desperation and lawlessness by a sense of abandonment and despair, then the situation would have unfolded differently. Why couldn't they have gotten an "air drop" or a delivery of satellite phones early in the game so that they could do something as simple as guard the gun stores before the gangs got in and cleaned them out?

From the "officials" who are trained for Disaster Relief, it is understandable that they want to "work the plan"--but working the plan broke down almost from the beginning when local and state officials did not understand what they had to do early enough.

There is a corrolary that may make sense. When my elderly father was discharged from the hospital after surgery, my elderly mother was incapable of caring for him and yet there seemed to be "no help" available and my brother and sister had been trying to cope, but their efforts were inadequate and the situation was deteriorating. A social worker in my state told me that the magic words that had to be said to the social worker for my parents were that the family was "unable, incapable or unwilling" to deal with their needs--and then help would be available. I immediately said the words right back to the social worker and literally within 5 minutes the situation changed completely! All of a sudden resources including a "visiting nurse" became available--within 1/2 hour! But somehow neither my brother nor my sister "heard" what the social worker was telling them--that they had to SAY those specific words in order for social services to step in to deal with the crisis. Otherwise they could not step in until something bad enough happened that they could act under "protective services." Now, the fact of the matter is that we were not "unwilling" but we were "unable" and "incapable" of being effective. And that's a difficult thing to understand (and admit) when you are trying as hard as you can! It was a question of legal semantics. If I hear what Air Force Met is saying, this situation with Disaster Relief is similar--there are specific words that have to be said by specific people.

But there needs to be, for future disasters, some type of "emergency override" so that this never, ever happens again! There needs to be someone (and I think it was perhaps President Bush or some delegate) who needed to say to the Mayor/Governor--"look, these are the processes and procedures you have to follow--say these words, sign this form"!!!

And that's why we are all so angry. It looks to onlookers as if everyone passed the buck to someone else and while the turf wars rage, people are dying in New Orleans and are in major misery throughout the other 90,000 square miles (about the size of New England coast--think of the coastline from Maine to New York and inland for a significant number of miles).

I do think that a lot of what is on these boards is "venting"--I know that's what many of my posts are. But we onlookers are very angry, upset and most of all, helpless! We can't do what our instincts tell us to do. I do not own a helicopter and don't know how to fly one--but believe me that if I did, I think I would have gone to Poland Spring, loaded it up, and flown to New Orleans and forfeited my pilot's license after delivering my load to New Orleans. Yeah, that's not a realistic scenario. But perhaps it would have been realistic for a Rudolph Giuliani, a Jesse Jackson, a Lee Iacocca, a Ross Perot or someone... (Those are chosen more or less for their Charisma rather than because I agree with their politics or anything--but they do have demonstrated ability to 'stand up and take charge' and that seems to be what has been lacking here.

[ncbird]

Air Force Met is 100% correct. There are laws governing these matters and procedures that must be followed. Somewhere along the line something went amiss. I won't get into pointing blame as I feel everyone in our country needs to be focused on getting the help to these people who are in such dire need at this point. The time will come when the officials will have to take a very hard look at the big WHY question. Some will have to answer for the mistakes made, but it needs to be at later date. The most important thing now is not to spend time pointing fingers and quarreling about who is to blame, but to move forward, and take care of the most treasured thing we have in this great nation... its people.

[Brent]

I agree with a lot of what is being said here.. However, had the sorry sack started getting the people out sooner, making better preparetions for this in advance, it may not have come to this... For him to continue to say that he could not order the evacuations do to some process he had to clear, when Max, and the President were calling him on Saturday and telling him to start the evacs, and he said he could not do it, thats horse crap and the bulk of this needs to be thrown at his and the Govenors feet...

This is part of the reason that the Hurricane Conference is held there every other year as of late... All the press, right there in the city, talked about this exact situation, every year, and the plan they had in place looks to be B.S. ... So don't put all the blame on the FEDS... Yes I know they move slow, and it sux to watch this... Believe me, I know how slow they are after Isabel.... It s the same thing every time... Thats why the local area governments need to have better plans in place until the FEDS can get in... Thats why the conference is held... And apparently, some folks were not listening or paying attention...


Jesse V. Bass III
http://www.vastormphoto.com

For what it's worth... the President isn't happy about this mess either...